Chinese diesel heater woes.

[peterboat]

6 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

What kind of toilet have you got? 

A proper one that gets emptied on the compost heap!

[MtB]

4 hours ago, peterboat said:

Laser temp gun? Point it and read it?

 

Yes that measures the temperature somewhere, but in what way might it test the sensor? 

[Tony Brooks]

4 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

Yes that measures the temperature somewhere, but in what way might it test the sensor? 

 

If you could find the date for resistance against temperature you could warm it out of the heater and plot its actual resistance.

[MtB]

4 hours ago, rusty69 said:

 

 

Great, thanks. Any idea how to test a temperature sensor?

 

Wrong tree. 

 

The sensor will be fine I predict. It is shutting off the appliance with E8 because it is genuinely sensing low temperature I predict, because combustion has ceased. 

 

I'm still curious as to how you've determined there is no water in the fuel, just by looking at it inside that thin clear pipe. Or why you have used that ghastly thin clear (or green) pipe in the first plaice! 

[rusty69]

3 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

Wrong tree. 

 

The sensor will be fine I predict. It is shutting off the appliance with E8 because it is genuinely sensing low temperature I predict, because combustion has ceased. 

 

I'm still curious as to how you've determined there is no water in the fuel, just by looking at it inside that thin clear pipe. Or why you have used that ghastly thin clear (or green) pipe in the first plaice! 

Cos I put some in  jam jar and couldn't see any water. Is there a more scientific method.

 

If you watch the video I linked to, its quite informative on why that pipe is preferable. It has less give in it, so doesn't flex when the pump pulses.

ETA. I took the jam out first.

[MtB]

7 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

If you could find the date for resistance against temperature you could warm it out of the heater and plot its actual resistance.

 

Well yes, but that's one helluva big if. 

 

There IS one way to find out. If there was someone on here with one of their own lying about in their workshop, they could measure the resistance of theirs at room temp and post it on here.... That might help. 

[rusty69]

7 minutes ago, MtB said:

Wrong tree. 

I'm running out of branches, and enthusiasm. 

[Tony Brooks]

1 minute ago, MtB said:

 

Well yes, but that's one helluva big if. 

 

There IS one way to find out. If there was someone on here with one of their own lying about in their workshop, they could measure the resistance of theirs at room temp and post it on here.... That might help. 

 

Are you volunteering, I suspect you have a spare on the bench. Otherwise we need to wait to see in another member will do it.

[MtB]

Just now, rusty69 said:

I'm running out of branches, and enthusiasm. 

 

This is where one has to dig deep. Consider this:

 

Put some fresh batteries in your imagination, or crystal ball if you don't have one. Imagine you shelled out £97 on a whole new heater. You've installed it and you are about to fire it up. Will it work reliably or will it give you the E8? 

 

Reach deep into your gut for the answer....

 

 

[rusty69]

1 minute ago, MtB said:

 

This is where one has to dig deep. Consider this:

 

Put some fresh batteries in your imagination, or crystal ball if you don't have one. Imagine you shelled out £97 on a whole new heater. You've installed it and you are about to fire it up. Will it work reliably or will it give you the E8? 

 

Reach deep into your gut for the answer....

 

 

Have I put the same batch of diesel in?

14 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

Wrong tree. 

 

The sensor will be fine I predict. It is shutting off the appliance with E8 because it is genuinely sensing low temperature I predict, because combustion has ceased. 

 

I'm still curious as to how you've determined there is no water in the fuel, just by looking at it inside that thin clear pipe. Or why you have used that ghastly thin clear (or green) pipe in the first plaice! 

So, perhaps combustion has ceased because the higher fuel flow rate is not penetrating the gauze atomiser due to carbon build up?

[MtB]

5 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

Have I put the same batch of diesel in?

So, perhaps combustion has ceased because the higher fuel flow rate is not penetrating the gauze atomiser due to carbon build up?

 

I don't know the answer but as a fault-tracer of 22 years I notice I ALWAYS knew the answer deep in my gut already, when I eventually find a fix. One's subconscious figures it out before the logical brain gets there.

 

Just warming up that sensor indoors for you, before taking a reading.

 

 

 

[peterboat]

22 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

Yes that measures the temperature somewhere, but in what way might it test the sensor? 

It might show the temperature dropping off before it flashes the fault code and stops. Alternatively it might show the temperature going over a safe heat and turning the fuel off? After all that's what it's for.

Going back to whispergen days we could see it all on the screen a under or over temperature could start a fault and shut down, maybe this is the same?

[David Mack]

4 hours ago, rusty69 said:

So, I have removed the fuel tank and put it below the heater

I would put the fuel tank above the heater, with the pump still in place. That way the pump will still meter the flow, but if there are any leaks in the pump body they will leak fuel out rather than air in.

Edited December 11, 2022 by David Mack

[rusty69]

1 minute ago, MtB said:

 

I don't know the answer but as a fault-tracer of 22 years I notice I ALWAYS knew the answer deep in my gut already, when I eventually find a fix. One's subconscious figures it out before the logical brain gets there.

 

Just warming up that sensor indoors for you, before taking a reading.

 

 

 

So tell me what your 22 year old gut is telling you, and I can warm my hands up. 

Just now, David Mack said:

I would put the fuel tank above the heater, with the pump still in place. That way the pump will still meter the flow, but if there are any leaks in the pump body they will leak fuel out rather than air in.

I would put the fuel tank above the heater, with the pump still in place. That way the pump will still meter the flow, but if there are any leaks in the pump body they will leak fuel out rather than air in.

The tank was previously above the heater. 

[Quattrodave]

What's the length of fuel pipe from top of the pump to bottom of the heater? The shorter the better.  Is the pump physically below the heater, does the fuel pipe travel basically uphill towards the heater? It helps to reduce airlocks.  Have you replaced the standard +ve & -ve cable? The standard cable is generally pretty poor.  Other than that take the combustion chamber out and give it a good clean.  Also clean the heater plug gauze.

 

If it still plays up, buy another they are cheap enough to be basically disposable...

Edited December 11, 2022 by Quattrodave

[rusty69]

1 minute ago, Quattrodave said:

What's the length of fuel pipe from top of the pump to bottom of the heater? The shorter the better.  Is the pump physically below the heater, does the fuel pipe travel basically uphill towards the heater? It helps to reduce airlocks.  Have you replaced the standard +ve & -ve cable? The standard cable is generally pretty poor.  Other than that take the combustion chamber out and give it a good clean.  Also clean the heater plug gauze.

 

If it still plays up, buy another they are cheap enough to be basically disposable...

It was about 50 cm, now more like 30 cm.The pump is now below the heater, it was above.I haven't changed the cable.

 

Its only actually done about 30 hours, so is pretty new. I had trouble with my last one too, so won't be buying another one.

[ditchcrawler]

[rusty69]

8 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

I love that last bit of advice. 

[Quattrodave]

16 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

It was about 50 cm, now more like 30 cm.The pump is now below the heater, it was above.

Perfect.

16 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

I haven't changed the cable.

If its easy to get to & you the cable, I'd change it. The difference can be quite impressive.

18 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

Its only actually done about 30 hours, so is pretty new.

Indeed, 30 hours isn't long.  I've run them on terrible fuel for much longer and still been clean inside.

 

Just a thought, what power heater is it and what size fuel pump have you got?  The reason I ask is I've seen the wrong fuel pump shipped and this causes all sorts of probs...

[rusty69]

Just now, Quattrodave said:

Perfect.

If its easy to get to & you the cable, I'd change it. The difference can be quite impressive.

Indeed, 30 hours isn't long.  I've run them on terrible fuel for much longer and still been clean inside.

 

Just a thought, what power heater is it and what size fuel pump have you got?  The reason I ask is I've seen the wrong fuel pump shipped and this causes all sorts of probs...

It's a 5kw heater. I'm not sure what pump it is. If there is a number stamped on it, I will check tomorrow. 

 

I've run it whilst on charge, so hopefully it isn't the cable. I was going to upgrade it as a matter of course, but probably won't go down the route of changing random parts in the hope that one of them might fix it. 

 

I did that with the previous unit. 

[Bacchus]

22 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

 

Fascinating.

 

Nothing to say that the product is any way a problem, but the documentation doesn't warn the terminally stupid that heaters might get hot...

[MtB]

10 minutes ago, Bacchus said:

 

Fascinating.

 

Nothing to say that the product is any way a problem, but the documentation doesn't warn the terminally stupid that heaters might get hot...

 

Yes the documentation seems to be the problem, not the heaters.

 

This has been an ongoing problem for 30 years initially with Japanese products and now Chinese, which seem even worse. This is possibly the first shot across the bows that the Chinese must document their products properly instead of treating the manual and user instructions as the optional 'nice to have but not essential' attitude they currently have.

 

This thread illustrates the currently poor standard of documentation and technical support, but I guess that is one of the ways they manage to be so cheap. 

[MtB]

1 hour ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

Are you volunteering, I suspect you have a spare on the bench. Otherwise we need to wait to see in another member will do it.

 

21c, 52k Ohms. 

 

Seems to be dropping slightly as my meter warms up (was outside in the -3c rain room) 

 

 

 

[rusty69]

3 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

21c, 52k Ohms. 

 

Seems to be dropping slightly as my meter warms up (was outside in the -3c rain room) 

 

 

 

That's my job for tomorrow sorted then. Thanks.

[nicknorman]

I’m going to disagree with the boilerman. The temperature sensor is just about the water overheating. And normally there are 2 sensors, one to reduce the output when it gets “quite hot” and another, that should never activate, when the water gets “way too hot!” which shuts if off. Shades of a LiFePO4 system!

 

There will be a flame detector that “sees” the flame, an LDR or other type of optical sensor. This is what will trigger the “flameout” fault code, not a coolant underheat. The only question is whether it is an actual flameout caused by a fuel issue, or a sensor fault seeing an “imaginary flameout”. I would start out by locating the optical flame sensor and cleaning it / any glass between it and the flame.

Edited December 11, 2022 by nicknorman