Best diesel heating system for 3 small radiators?

[SweetPromise]

Hi all,

 

Just wondering what the best diesel heating system would be to get. I'm hoping to just run a towel rail and 2 small radiators off it, so it won't be doing hot water as well.

 

I've heard various things about Webasto but was keen to see if anyone else had other systems and what they thought. I don't have a massive budget either, so a decent, but cheaper system would be ideal (I guess that goes for everything in life).

 

Thanks.

[Ex Brummie]

A bubble or similar vapourising stove with a back boiler.

[Nightwatch]

We have one of the new Eberspacher diesel boilers. Nowt wrong wiv it. In fact pleased wiv it.

 

No where near as noisy as the older versions are.

[LadyG]

I think OP would get a better discussion going if he briefly described his boat, type, size etc, the current heating systems and whether he is a liveaboard. 

I know there are potential safety aspects to be aware of before starting . 

There are quite a few threads on these systems, the search function is quite good.

3 hours ago, Ex Brummie said:

A bubble or similar vapourising stove with a back boiler.

Is one option, appeals for simplicity, and presumably uses little or no electricity ( a drawback with the webasto type.)

Edited October 12, 2022 by LadyG

[SweetPromise]

Thank you for your replies. Currently have a squirrel which can be fitted with a back boiler so perhaps this is the best way to go. We live aboard a 70ft NB that we're fitting out. 

 

My partner found a MV Hydro diesel water heater but very little info or reviews seem available for it. I wonder if anyone on here has one? 

 

Also interested in the noise these heaters make. I watched some videos and they seem pretty noisy but I understand you can get silencers for them. 

 

I'll continue searching the forum as well for interesting threads, thank you. 

[LadyG]

I have a very warm dry boat it's 57ft and foam insulated. My stove is not as good as a squirrel but it has a back boiler, the big copper pipes themselves pass through the boat, including towel rail, also the bed area and calorifier, so the boat is toasty and dry end to end.

I prefer this to the webasto which I also have, it is more expensive and it is cold when not ON, so it is on the thermo stat, at about 17C.

I also have full length thick curtains from eBay on a rail near the door, makes a big difference. You need CO monitors of course.

Two heating systems are ideal, but I'd go for squirrel with back boiler.

If in a marina, I'd have electric oil filled rads and greenhouse tubular rads as secondary system.

I have extra curtain liners made of insulating curtain fabric, really great in summer to cool boat, and keep it warm in winter.

 

Edited October 12, 2022 by LadyG

[koukouvagia]

No one has yet mentioned a Refleks.  One of these will easily meet the OP's requirements.  Excellent IMO.

 

[Ex Brummie]

3 hours ago, koukouvagia said:

No one has yet mentioned a Refleks.  One of these will easily meet the OP's requirements.  Excellent IMO.

 

See my previous post. Refleks is one of the vapourising stoves available.

[koukouvagia]

Ah yes.  I didn't read your post properly.

[blackrose]

On 12/10/2022 at 22:01, SweetPromise said:

Thank you for your replies. Currently have a squirrel which can be fitted with a back boiler so perhaps this is the best way to go. 

 

Solid fuel stoves with/without backboilers and diesel heaters aren't mutually exclusive. Many boats are fitted with both.

 

You wont get any more heat out of a stove by fitting it with a backboiler and radiators but you might distribute that heat more evenly throughout the boat.

 

I have a solid fuel stone with a backboiler & 2 small rads and a webasto running 4 larger rads and the calorifier. If you do fit a webasto, eberspacher, etc, you'd be mad not to use it to heat water too assuming the boat has a calorifier. Those type of diesel heaters like to be run hard so you need to match the radiators with the output of the heater. They are all equally unreliable whichever make you go for. 

[SweetPromise]

Thanks again for all replies. Lots of food for thought. 

 

I did think to get a diesel heater as well as the back boiler actually, it's a good point. Currently don't have a calorifier but it might be something to do in the future. We have an instantaneous water heater currently. 

 

2 hours ago, blackrose said:

Those type of diesel heaters like to be run hard so you need to match the radiators with the output of the heater.

Ah good point OK. Need to do this. 

 

All really useful info, thanks. It's funny how much curtains make a difference and are often overlooked actually. I've been living on a Scottish island so I'm used to wrapping up. The first thing I did was buy huge, thick curtains for the cottage up there! Funnily enough, I used to live on a narrowboat before moving to Scotland and I always said that the winters onboard were warmer than the winters I've just had up there in an old, poorly insulated and poorly heated cottage. 

 

Currently have flimsy scarf coverings on the windows as a quick fix when I got the boat in the summer but definitely need to get something decent. 

 

The spray foam on this boat is phenomenally thick. Whoever did it went to town and I've been having to shave it back to fit the walls on properly without them bulging out. Can feel the warmth just from that. 

 

2 hours ago, blackrose said:

They are all equally unreliable whichever make you go for.

Thought that might be the case! 

[Tony Brooks]

Re your last comment, have you investigated the Hurricane diesel boiler sold by Calcutt Boats. They have them on their hire fleet. The heaters are expensive compared with the Webasto type, but apart from a period when there was a component problem they do not seem to have got the unreliable reputation.

 

http://www.dieselheating.com/sch25.html

[blackrose]

42 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

Re your last comment, have you investigated the Hurricane diesel boiler sold by Calcutt Boats. They have them on their hire fleet. The heaters are expensive compared with the Webasto type, but apart from a period when there was a component problem they do not seem to have got the unreliable reputation.

 

http://www.dieselheating.com/sch25.html

 

That's what I used to think until I met someone with a Hurricane who told me it had gone wrong a couple of times and was just as unreliable as the webasto it had replaced.

 

That's just one example so perhaps we shouldn't base any opinion on that, but by the same token perhaps Hurricanes don't have the unreliable reputation because there are so few on them around on boats in comparison to webastards and ebersplutters?

 

Anyway, the point is that these types of heater should only be used as a supplementary form of heating as a back up to a solid fuel stove or other more reliable heating system - at least for liveaboards, and they should be regularly serviced, ideally before they go wrong.

 

[magnetman]

I had a little Refleks 66M for a while until someone broke into the boat and ripped it out. They tore the back of of it off in the process so it would have been scrap. Sad idiots.

 

It was really good. You can get them with a little water heat exchange coil and I reckon it would probably run 3 small rads with a little circulation pump.

 

One problem was when running very slowly it tended to coke up but if it is running two or three rads it would be turned up more so would probably  be more efficient and cleaner.

 

I really like them although both my boats now have solid fuel and no oil heating setups.

 

I've also had Neverspacher and Mikuni both of which are great when working but a PITA when not working and both use considerable amounts of electricity if used continuously.

 

The Refleks use no electric, for the combustion or fuel delivery. Gravity feed, 70mm flue and you can get a version with a cast iron top for cooking on. Brilliant items as long as nobody steals it.

 

 

Edited October 14, 2022 by magnetman

[Tony Brooks]

29 minutes ago, magnetman said:

One problem was when running very slowly it tended to coke up but if it is running two or three rads it would be turned up more so would probably  be more efficient and cleaner.

 

I still think a lot of the carbon troubles result from too short a flue & chimney on a boat. If you look at the bubble stove demo trailer they must have about 4 to 5ft of flue inside plus similar outside. A shorter flue and a low heat would create less draw and less draw means less oxygen and probably less air movement in and around the burner. That combination would give rise to incomplete combustion and thus carbon. I can't prove this but similar burners in domestic settings do not see to give rise to the problems boaters seem to have.

 

 

[magnetman]

Thats a good observation and another thing which occurred to me is if you put a water heat exchanger coil in it that lowers the temperature even more so could cause more problems.

 

Having said that if the Refleks was turned up higher it didn't coke up as much so it isn't all about the flue length. The flue definitely does have a major impact of that there is no doubt.

[Tony Brooks]

9 minutes ago, magnetman said:

 

Having said that if the Refleks was turned up higher it didn't coke up as much so it isn't all about the flue length. The flue definitely does have a major impact of that there is no doubt.

 

I would suggest that this tends to support my thoughts. I think that it is a combination of heat and flue length with a low fire producing less heat so less draw. I have seen vaporizing burners using a similar control unit with blown combustion air. I know that is not really an option on a boat with scarce electricity, but it makes me wonder why.

[SweetPromise]

I hadn't heard of the Refleks so thanks for this suggestion. I had a quick look - forgive me for a stupid question but is it a stove as well? Would you put it in the living space like a stove? Sorry to hear that someone nicked yours magnetman, sad times. 

 

And I had seen the Hurricanes but those prices are just too much for me. Maybe one day! Thinking more now about the back boiler and a refurb webasto set up. Been quoted 2 grand for the webasto parts and install, so might be a next winter thing now. I'll get by with the squirrel this year! 

[eightacre]

We have a similar set-up. Replaced our aging Mikuni with a EBERSPÄCHER HYDRONIC S3 two years ago. Quiet and economical.