Why people Buy Boats To Live On in London Despite the Problems

[Alan de Enfield]

3 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

 

Before or after they changed the prize odds?

 

No idea - it was about 10 years ago when we sold the business.

[ditchcrawler]

3 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

My Accountant was not offereing financial investment advice as he legally cannot (as he is not licenced to do so). He specifically pointed out that this was his personal experience only - it was quite telling that his second best investment was premium bonds, having the maximum amount he was getting a 'win' on every draw, sometimes just a few pounds, sometimes £100's but on average it was a good / excellent ROI.

I use premium bonds as its the only place you can get interest on cash that is almost instantly available

[Janz]

On 11/02/2022 at 09:37, Tracy D'arth said:

Basic question,                       Why would anyone of sound mind live in London?

 

Its horrible, full of horrible people, restrictive, dirty, smelly, dangerous, violent, foreign, stupid expensive, crowded, etc. etc.

I live there. Just about clinging on. That's why I'm here... bought a boat as a safety net. I was live in carer for my dad before he died. Had a hard time from the council because I was locked down here. They want me gone but I had nowhere to go & it was right in the middle of the pandemic, so they couldn't just evict me. Anyway, they gave me 'use & occupancy', so basically now I can be evicted at any time but it could take weeks, months, even years.

But now I have my tub, so let 'em do their worst...

[MtB]

2 minutes ago, Janz said:

I live there. Just about clinging on. That's why I'm here... bought a boat as a safety net. I was live in carer for my dad before he died. Had a hard time from the council because I was locked down here. They want me gone but I had nowhere to go & it was right in the middle of the pandemic, so they couldn't just evict me. Anyway, they gave me 'use & occupancy', so basically now I can be evicted at any time but it could take weeks, months, even years.

But now I have my tub, so let 'em do their worst...

 

Really sorry to hear about your Dad. 

 

Are the council charging you rent of any sort for the "use and occupancy"? If so you could have a strong argument to say they have created a tenancy, with all the rights that go along with one. Tenancies can arise without necessarily being written down on paper, AIUI. 

[TheBiscuits]

7 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

No idea - it was about 10 years ago when we sold the business.

 

Before the changes then.

 

https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/savings/premium-bonds/

[David Mack]

On 11/02/2022 at 08:58, Tim Lewis said:

https://onlineauctions.my-auction.co.uk/lot/details/59780?fbclid=IwAR3_tHtHiqhUDW6lCkWyViLUgnL8vARIHIvudypIWVTajODAuu_1ja3svRg

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/feb/17/londons-smallest-microflat-up-for-sale-at-50000-for-7-square-metres

[TheBiscuits]

On 17/02/2022 at 19:59, David Mack said:

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/feb/17/londons-smallest-microflat-up-for-sale-at-50000-for-7-square-metres

 

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/feb/23/londons-smallest-microflat-sells-for-80-above-asking-price

 

Sold for 90,000!

[PD1964]

On 11/02/2022 at 10:45, doratheexplorer said:

 

This is what Londoners looked like in the 80s.  I'm sure their posture and drinking habits were impeccable.

 I take it you weren’t born in the 80’s or still in nappies if you think this photo reflects the 80’s? Punk slightly earlier, maybe this photo 81/2 ish but post real Punk, try New-Romantic more early 80’s, then Bros/Wham. Best music era 1977-83 🎶

Edited February 23, 2022 by PD1964

[Slim]

On 11/02/2022 at 10:40, MtB said:

 

But but.... the M40 gets terribly bumpy for a few miles around the High Wycombe to Oxford stretch. Used to notice this especially in the Scooby. 

Driven it twice in the last week in a car with firmed up suspension and can't say I noticed it. 

[Tim Lewis]

On 11/02/2022 at 08:58, Tim Lewis said:

https://onlineauctions.my-auction.co.uk/lot/details/59780?fbclid=IwAR3_tHtHiqhUDW6lCkWyViLUgnL8vARIHIvudypIWVTajODAuu_1ja3svRg

sold for £90k

 

https://www.standard.co.uk/homesandproperty/property-news/hackney-micro-studio-sold-auction-b984240.html?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook&fbclid=IwAR1drSaPRnvO3hzQcshUu_UaNasfc9BPdIqfNgmKvEiJjXGv0fbm8KuGnOI#Echobox=1645633626

[Janz]

On 12/02/2022 at 21:34, MtB said:

 

Really sorry to hear about your Dad. 

 

Are the council charging you rent of any sort for the "use and occupancy"? If so you could have a strong argument to say they have created a tenancy, with all the rights that go along with one. Tenancies can arise without necessarily being written down on paper, AIUI. 

Sorry for the late reply & thanks. I forgot about this thread. The council have stated clearly in their U&O terms that no tenancy is to be created. They have so far got me to look at two 'flats', which they consider suitable for single men. The first one was horrific. I was told to meet an agent at a place in Greenford. He was two hours late. The place was a three bed house that had been converted into SIX self contained rooms, so effectively with partners up to twelve people could be resident at any one time. The other guys who lived there looked like they had drug, alcohol or mental health issues - that's the only way the council have a 'duty of care' to house them. The room was tiny & filthy. The rent was £966 pcm. I'll post some pics.

The second place was even worse. Same filthy Rachman style layout, same vulnerable & unhinged looking tenants... only this place had a garden, & in that garden there were tents. TENTS..! WITH PEOPLE LIVING IN THEM..!

I've lived in London all my life. North, south, east & west & in the centre when I was at university. I have seen the hidden poverty which isn't really hidden anymore & I know what's coming. That's why I want out. I agree with Tracy - London is a cesspool of unfettered, free-market insanity... & it will become a lot worse, mark my words.

[Janz]

15 minutes ago, Janz said:

Sorry for the late reply & thanks. I forgot about this thread. The council have stated clearly in their U&O terms that no tenancy is to be created. They have so far got me to look at two 'flats', which they consider suitable for single men. The first one was horrific. I was told to meet an agent at a place in Greenford. He was two hours late. The place was a three bed house that had been converted into SIX self contained rooms, so effectively with partners up to twelve people could be resident at any one time. The other guys who lived there looked like they had drug, alcohol or mental health issues - that's the only way the council have a 'duty of care' to house them. The room was tiny & filthy. The rent was £966 pcm. I'll post some pics.

The second place was even worse. Same filthy Rachman style layout, same vulnerable & unhinged looking tenants... only this place had a garden, & in that garden there were tents. TENTS..! WITH PEOPLE LIVING IN THEM..!

I've lived in London all my life. North, south, east & west & in the centre when I was at university. I have seen the hidden poverty which isn't really hidden anymore & I know what's coming. That's why I want out. I agree with Tracy - London is a cesspool of unfettered, free-market insanity... & it will become a lot worse, mark my words.

 

[Janz]

There ya go... yours for a thousand pounds a month.

Share with five other junkies, or seven if you include the garden dwellers...

This is why people buy boats to live on in London...

[Janz]

When I asked the landlord's agent what's with the tent in the garden, he replied after a pause... 'storage'. Yes, those are blood stains on that mattress. I surmise the former tenant had some difficulty finding a vein to shoot into. The landlord's agent tried to turn it around so I wouldn't see it. The entire place reeked of weed, stale booze, BO & damp. I don't care how bad my boat looks - it's mine & no one can take it away from me or evict me from it or put me into one of these hellholes...

[Alan de Enfield]

8 minutes ago, Janz said:

I don't care how bad my boat looks - it's mine & no one can take it away from me or evict me from it

 

Are you sure ?

 

There are a  number of things you can do / not do that could result in you being 'removed from your boat' and your boat taken away and even sold off or crushed (depending on its value)

 

Edited February 24, 2022 by Alan de Enfield

[David Mack]

6 minutes ago, Janz said:

I don't care how bad my boat looks - it's mine & no one can take it away from me or evict me from it

Well CRT can if you don't follow the rules. It's not hard to comply but some people still find themselves in the enforcement process.

[MtB]

15 minutes ago, Janz said:

it's mine & no one can take it away from me or evict me from it

 

Thanks for posting all this stuff. Its easy to forget how privileged we are, having boats.

 

Point of Order though....

 

In extreme cases people DO get evicted from the boats they own and the boat taken away from them. The process goes something like the following:

 

1) Boater fails or refuses to get a BSS, or a home mooring/move regularly, and consequently gets refused a licence. 

2) After CRT bending over backward to help the boater comply (usually for several years), they eventually chase down the boat and crane it out.

3) Boat eventually gets sold at auction by CRT (and proceeds after expenses passed on to evictee, supposedly) or scrapped if unsaleable

 

This tends to happen to boaters who feel they are exempt from following the rules and stick two fingers up at CRT's efforts to help. Or, they are people so incompetent at life in general that the requirements overwhelm them and they just can't cope. 

 

 

 

Edited February 24, 2022 by MtB
Add 3) to list

[Janz]

1 minute ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Are you sure ?

 

There are a  number of things you can do / not do that could result in you being 'removed from your boat' and your boat taken away and even sold off or crushed (depending on its value)

 

I intend to stay well within the legal framework, Alan. Plus, I will defend my boat & my rights with extreme prejudice if necessary. 

[cheesegas]

4 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Are you sure ?

 

There are a  number of things you can do / not do that could result in you being 'removed from your boat' and your boat taken away and even sold off or crushed (depending on its value)

There's multiple boats being lived on in London which haven't moved from a certain popular 7 day mooring area for a long time, the longest around 4 years - the CRT simply don't bother to enforce the rules. No BSS or visible registration number.

 

As for living in London? I cruise from Leighton Buzzard to the top of the Stort to stay in the South for work, being freelance. London has by far the best public transport links, I remember being just 30 miles outside of it to get a bus to the station, only to discover it doesn't run on weekends and comes twice a day!

[Alan de Enfield]

4 minutes ago, Janz said:

I intend to stay well within the legal framework, Alan. Plus, I will defend my boat & my rights with extreme prejudice if necessary. 

 

If you stay withing the rules the  you will not need to defend anything.

 

Threatening 'extreme prejudice' on a public forum is not a very good idea, particularly if anytime in the future you have a 'problem'. It is not uncommon these days for the Police (or other authorities) to trawl thru phone records / texts / social media.

 

Its not so long ago that a girl accused a guy of rape, the guy said it was concensual - it was all very serious until the Police uncovered a text from her to a friend saying one of her fantasy's was to be raped. That certainly came back to bite her.

 

Edited February 24, 2022 by Alan de Enfield

[Janz]

3 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

Thanks for posting all this stuff. Its easy to forget how privileged we are, having boats.

 

Point of Order though....

 

In extreme cases people DO get evicted from the boats they own and the boat taken away from them. The process goes something like the following:

 

1) Boater fails or refuses to get a BSS, or a home mooring/move regularly, and consequently gets refused a licence. 

2) After CRT bending over backward to help the boater comply (usually for several years), they eventually chase down the boat and crane it out.

 

This tends to happen to boaters who feel they are exempt from following the rules and stick two fingers up at CRT's efforts to help. Or, they are people so incompetent at life in general that the requirements overwhelm them and they just can't cope. 

Yes. But I must assure you that I'm a clean living person & unlikely to fall foul of the law. Compared to the erosion of my rights as a standard city dweller by my local authority, the CRT are a walk in the park.

[Janz]

4 minutes ago, cheesegas said:

There's multiple boats being lived on in London which haven't moved from a certain popular 7 day mooring area for a long time, the longest around 4 years - the CRT simply don't bother to enforce the rules. No BSS or visible registration number.

 

As for living in London? I cruise from Leighton Buzzard to the top of the Stort to stay in the South for work, being freelance. London has by far the best public transport links, I remember being just 30 miles outside of it to get a bus to the station, only to discover it doesn't run on weekends and comes twice a day!

In Hackney Wick they have boat parties in summer. The boat is just a gutted hulk with no engine. It's just to ferry the paying public from the towpath to an island via a chain under the water. The police don't bother to do anything & neither do the CRT.

 

[MtB]

1 minute ago, Janz said:

Yes. But I must assure you that I'm a clean living person & unlikely to fall foul of the law. Compared to the erosion of my rights as a standard city dweller by my local authority, the CRT are a walk in the park.

 

Indeed they are, but a lot of boaters feel the way you expressed it and one, once in a while, decides their boat is their castle and CRT can spin on it.

 

I once saw a pub owner's boat being craned out by CRT, after he decided he didn't need a licence, could moor on his pub water frontage and there was damn all CRT could do about it other than keep writing the threatening letters, which all went in the bin with a smile. 

 

And there have been cases where the police has assisted with eviction, pre-craning. Once the police get involved, I don't think one stands a prayer of winning. 

[Alan de Enfield]

3 minutes ago, cheesegas said:

There's multiple boats being lived on in London which haven't moved from a certain popular 7 day mooring area for a long time, the longest around 4 years - the CRT simply don't bother to enforce the rules. No BSS or visible registration number.

 

As for living in London? I cruise from Leighton Buzzard to the top of the Stort to stay in the South for work, being freelance. London has by far the best public transport links, I remember being just 30 miles outside of it to get a bus to the station, only to discover it doesn't run on weekends and comes twice a day!

 

 

If you go onto the 'what do you know' wesite you will see C&RTs published list of all the boats they have siezed.

 

One example (not so long ago) of a C&RT Eviction :

 

 

On 14th September 2016 Canal & River Trust (CRT), together with police, bailiffs and a CRT enforcement officer, seized a boat without a home mooring that was a vulnerable woman’s home while she was asleep inside it. The woman, who suffers from epilepsy, was later rushed to hospital in an ambulance as the stress of the eviction had caused her condition to become critical.

Boat dweller Peter John Wells, who was an eyewitness, filmed the eviction. It is on YouTube here

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQGSVSGWOsE and

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6TYzW97R5XY

Mr Wells said: “On the morning of September 14th Corrine Rotherham, CRT Enforcement Officer, and a team of seven private contractors set off in a vessel from Bradford on Avon on the Kennet and Avon Canal. They were on a mission to evict a lone woman living on a boat in Bath due to a licence dispute. They arrived as she was still asleep in bed, boarded the boat and proceeded to attach their boat to hers and tow it away. A number of nearby boaters were alerted to the situation and a blockade was formed preventing the removal. The boaters offered to pay any outstanding money due on the spot. This was not accepted”.

“Ms Rotherham decided her plan had gone seriously wrong and called for back-up, in this case four police officers and a police van with an unknown number of officers inside. By this time the woman, who suffers from epilepsy, was so distraught that she was reduced to tears. At one point she was surrounded by CRT, bailiffs and police officers against the railway wall. Despite support from the other boaters she felt she had to escape the situation and she agreed to leave her boat. Her boat was taken to Bradford on Avon, lifted on a lorry and driven away. Two days later she was admitted to hospital as the stress o the eviction had caused her epilepsy to become critical”.

Before being taken to hospital the woman wandered around Bath in a confused and distressed state. According to staff at a drop-in centre for homeless people, she was so ill that she was incoherent and could not explain what had happened. The following day she was found by police and an ambulance was called.

[Janz]

7 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

If you stay withing the rules the  you will not need to defend anything.

 

Threatening 'extreme prejudice' on a public forum is not a very good idea, particularly if anytime in the future you have a 'problem'. It is not uncommon these days for the Police (or other authorities) to trawl thru phone records / texts / social media.

 

Its not so long ago that a girl accused a guy of rape, the guy said it was concensual - it was all very serious until the Police uncovered a text from her to a friend saying one of her fantasy's was to be raped. That certainly came back to bite her.

 

Wasn't a threat, Alan. I'm obviously allowed by law to protect myself & my property just like everyone else & I will do that without compunction. My neighbour has two boats. One has been burnt out. She doesn't know what happened but it happened. Somebody broke in & burnt it. The police? They are the least of my worries. I don't have any problems with them. I'm legal.