HVO how do I get some?

[dmr]

Speedy look to be a London company, I suspect all fuel wholesalers are local so are merging/co-operating/taking over to provide a nationwide service.

21 hours ago, Steilsteven said:

I've been using them for a couple of years now for bulk deliveries and received my first delivery of HVO back in September.

Yes the quote button is just for bulk orders, for anything else it is best to either email or phone them.

I've always found them very helpful, unlike most other suppliers.

 

Keith

 

Yes,  Thank you.

 

...............Dave

[Steilsteven]

21 hours ago, dmr said:

 

Thanks, will phone them tomoro.

 

Are you buying this for your own private use, as a business customer, or are you reselling it?

 

Crown will not sell diesel direct to users, only to re-sellers, this makes sense as I assume it removes some of the HMRC admin burden.

Own private use, I have a 1000 litre tank on board solely for running my generator and boiler.

 

Keith

[dmr]

29 minutes ago, Steilsteven said:

Own private use, I have a 1000 litre tank on board solely for running my generator and boiler.

 

Keith

 

I am going to get it delivered to a farm next to the canal then bring it down to the boat in Jerrycans. Fuel people know about farms but boats upset them. 😀

Just need to get the 20litre sample sorted.

[peterboat]

Peak oils in Chesterfield Derbyshire sells it from a pump, I have used the last of mine both tanks are full as we had to empty our IBC, I can ask Paul if he has any left? 

[dmr]

34 minutes ago, peterboat said:

Peak oils in Chesterfield Derbyshire sells it from a pump, I have used the last of mine both tanks are full as we had to empty our IBC, I can ask Paul if he has any left? 

 

Thanks, I think I might be sorted. A forum member who lives locally is hopefully going to go past a suitable boatyard quite soon and collect 20litres for me. NewEra fuels (aka HVOFuels) will then deliver 200litre drums to a local farm for a fairly decent price, and even have a vehicle that can negotiate the local road.

[peterboat]

12 minutes ago, dmr said:

 

Thanks, I think I might be sorted. A forum member who lives locally is hopefully going to go past a suitable boatyard quite soon and collect 20litres for me. NewEra fuels (aka HVOFuels) will then deliver 200litre drums to a local farm for a fairly decent price, and even have a vehicle that can negotiate the local road.

What price for the 200 litres? If you don't mind

[dmr]

55 minutes ago, peterboat said:

What price for the 200 litres? If you don't mind

 

£242 + vat, free delivery. That's about £1.27/litre . (not sure if its 200l or 205)

Standard red is 96 at the local garage so thats 32% more.

I suspect the free delivery might cost a bit so I might get a quote for 400litre and see if that's better.

[Alan de Enfield]

5 minutes ago, dmr said:

 

£242 + vat, free delivery. That's about £1.27/litre . (not sure if its 200l or 205)

Standard red is 96 at the local garage so thats 32% more.

I suspect the free delivery might cost a bit so I might get a quote for 400litre and see if that's better.

 

 

It would be useful if you could fill in a bit more detail :

 

Is that for Red or White ? Full Duty paid, or rebated ? VAT at 5% or 20% ?

Do you get a receipt showing what duty is paid ? If it is rebated how do you go about paying the 'propulsion duty' ?

 

I have Red diesel delivered as we are 'agricultural' and it is subject to the 5% rebated rate, if they are delivering your HVO to a Farm they may do the same ?

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

If the maths is correct it’s vat at 5% ?

[dmr]

2 minutes ago, Goliath said:

If the maths is correct it’s vat at 5% ?

 

VAT on red diesel is 5%.  A local boatyard quotes his diesel price without VAT then adds on the 5% which is a bit naughty, so its 5% for farms and boats.

We have a trading licence so do not pay the propulsion duty, this is the generally accepted state of affairs, but I suspect that might change if HMRC ever chose to seriously investigate.  I imagine strictly your should declare what fraction of the propulsion diesel is used for pleasurable propulsion and what is used for trade related propulsion. 😀

 

I'm an honest person so if we didn't have a trading licence I would of course offer to pay the propulsion tax at the petrol station, but I think they might say rude words to me. I suppose boaters should fill the jerrycan 60% from the white pump and 40% from the red pump? make your own pink diesel.

[MtB]

Same way as they make rosé wine?

[dmr]

Just now, MtB said:

Same way as they make rosé wine?

 

Ive never liked rose that much, maybe that's because it tastes of diesel ? 😀

[MtB]

1 minute ago, dmr said:

 

Ive never liked rose that much, maybe that's because it tastes of diesel ? 😀

 

Not enough diesel, more likely! 

[ditchcrawler]

10 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

It would be useful if you could fill in a bit more detail :

 

Is that for Red or White ? Full Duty paid, or rebated ? VAT at 5% or 20% ?

Do you get a receipt showing what duty is paid ? If it is rebated how do you go about paying the 'propulsion duty' ?

 

I have Red diesel delivered as we are 'agricultural' and it is subject to the 5% rebated rate, if they are delivering your HVO to a Farm they may do the same ?

Although interested I wasn't going to ask on here

[ditchcrawler]

10 hours ago, dmr said:

 

£242 + vat, free delivery. That's about £1.27/litre . (not sure if its 200l or 205)

Standard red is 96 at the local garage so thats 32% more.

I suspect the free delivery might cost a bit so I might get a quote for 400litre and see if that's better.

May be you should compare it to 205 lt drums of red delivered

[Alan de Enfield]

 

Hmmmm £1.50 per litre is pretty much the same as white pump pices. Red prices for 'loose' are about 50% of those shown

 

Better if a couple of boaters can get together and order 500 litres (or, even have a couple of barrels available for decanting)

 

I have had tankers deliver into barrels and directly into the boat, they have a range of nozzles and use a smaller diameter one to restrict the flow so you do not get huge gushes of foam and sprayback.

 

 

 

[dmr]

200 litre drums appear to slip through the regulations, though I suspect you really should have a bund, but in larger quantities I suspect the oil companies are more likely to want proper storage facilities. I did think about an IBC but with a 200 litre drum I can get the whole lot safely into the boat pretty quick.

[Steilsteven]

1 hour ago, dmr said:

200 litre drums appear to slip through the regulations, though I suspect you really should have a bund, but in larger quantities I suspect the oil companies are more likely to want proper storage facilities. I did think about an IBC but with a 200 litre drum I can get the whole lot safely into the boat pretty quick.

Those who wish to avoid falling foul of the regs could always order a 200 litre drum of white HVO at £372 + vat at 20% 

 

Keith

[MtB]

Just to wake up this thread again. 

 

I'm probably way behind the curve but yesterday I was driving through Iver and saw a Sprinter-sized van covered in huge sign-writing promoting HVO. The company was Speedy Fuels and Lubricants. So maybe supplies getting easier again now. 

 

Possibly a coincidence, but I saw said van less about a 1/4 mile from Highline Yatching.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest]

Just now, MtB said:

Just to wake up this thread again. 

 

I'm probably way behind the curve but yesterday I was driving through Iver and saw a Sprinter-sized van covered in huge sign-writing promoting HVO. The company was Speedy Fuels and Lubricants. So maybe supplies getting easier again now. 

 

Possibly a coincidence, but I saw said van less about a 1/4 mile from Highline Yatching.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hasnt HVO been discredited as a 'clean' fuel recently.?

 

Im sure @peterboat discovered this, so why would you want some?

[peterboat]

6 minutes ago, M_JG said:

 

Hasnt HVO been discredited as a 'clean' fuel recently.?

 

Im sure @peterboat discovered this, so why would you want some?

It was another member on here, he gave me links and it turned out he was right Martin, palm oil from cutting the Amazon rain forest down 

[Alan de Enfield]

9 hours ago, peterboat said:

It was another member on here, he gave me links and it turned out he was right Martin, palm oil from cutting the Amazon rain forest down 

 

But thats all right - its only the 'final stage of the journey' (fuel used in the vehicle) that is considered by the 'geenies', all the details of 'what & how' are done to get it are simply swept under the carpet.

 

The hype about HVO shows that !

[IanD]

On 09/03/2023 at 09:21, Alan de Enfield said:

 

But thats all right - its only the 'final stage of the journey' (fuel used in the vehicle) that is considered by the 'geenies', all the details of 'what & how' are done to get it are simply swept under the carpet.

 

The hype about HVO shows that !

 

And the suppliers try very hard to hide what the fuel source is... 😉

 

But like EVs, don't reject the good because it's not perfect. HVO does have its downsides (rainforest/crop sources, processing and transport) but it's still a lot better than burning fossil fuel for cases where EVs (or EBs) aren't a viable solution...

[Tony Brooks]

16 minutes ago, IanD said:

 

And the suppliers try very hard to hide what the fuel source is... 😉

 

But like EVs, don't reject the good because it's not perfect. HVO does have its downsides (rainforest/crop sources, processing and transport) but it's still a lot better than burning fossil fuel for cases where EVs (or EBs) aren't a viable solution...

 

But is it? I don't know the answer to that, but it occurs to me that if forests are being cut down to produce it. I think the ability to convert CO2 to wood and oxygen, plus the CO2 produced when the forest is felled and burned, needs adding to the HVO carbon footprint. I doubt a palm oil palm would convert as much CO as a large forest tree, and the loss of the tree conversion goes on year after year.

Edited March 10, 2023 by Tony Brooks

[IanD]

8 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

But is it? I don't know the answer to that, but it occurs to me that if forests are being cut down to produce it. I think the ability to convert CO2 to wood and oxygen, plus the CO2 produced when the forest is felled and burned, needs adding to the HVO carbon footprint. I doubt a palm oil palm would convert as much CO as a large forest tree, and the loss of the tree conversion goes on year after year.

 

There's plenty of information out there, I suggest you look rather than me providing links that you might disbelieve 😉

 

The "HVO zealots" claim 90% reduction in CO2 emissions even allowing for processing/transport etc, which I suspect is actually optimistic and doesn't price in the environmental impact. But even if you double or treble the emissions to allow for this, the reduction is still huge (80% or 70%).

 

The real problem is that scaling up HVO to make a significant reduction in global fossil fuel use would need an *enormous* amount of crop-growing and processing.

 

But for smaller niche applications (like canal boats) it's an excellent solution compared to carrying on burning diesel... 😉