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I have been insured with gjw for about 7 years and this year they have asked for a full survey as my boat is 30 years old.  my survey has told me that an insurance survey is £300 and a full survey is £500-650 depending on what the company wants.

I am confident about the engine and electrics as i can see anything a surveyor can see. but i would like to be sure the boat wont spring a leak (I'm fairly confident as it was replated 10 years ago and the anodes are in good condition and dont wear down much- but good to be sure)


Please supply any definitions of an "Insurance Survey" and names of insurance companies that accept them, and how often they are required (10 years seems reasonable) and minimum acceptable steel thickness.

I would also be interested in a basic full survey if such a thing exists
 

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I think you need to ask the insurance companies what they require. If you get it wrong they will happily refuse to pay out. My GUESS is most will just want a hull survey and a BSS but you must check, don't assume.

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12 minutes ago, rogerc said:

Please supply any definitions of an "Insurance Survey" and names of insurance companies that accept them, and how often they are required (10 years seems reasonable) and minimum acceptable steel thickness.

I would also be interested in a basic full survey if such a thing exists

 

The age related survey is generally required every 5 years.

 

I would suggest that the only way to find out what survey the insurers want, and if they will only accept surveys from accredited surveyors (ie off their list) is to ask them.

 

Following advice given on an internet forum as to what is required is a recipe for expensive mistakes.

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Check with your insurer what they actually require. Other insurers may be different.

But typically, insurers will want an out-of-water hull survey every 5 years for craft older than 25 or 30 years, with any recommended work carried out within a reasonable time period (to cover against risk of sinking). The surveyor will need to be a member of one of the accredited professional bodies. Insurers will generally accept a valid BSC as evidence that the boat systems are in reasonable condition.

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42 minutes ago, rogerc said:

I have been insured with gjw for about 7 years and this year they have asked for a full survey as my boat is 30 years old.  my survey has told me that an insurance survey is £300 and a full survey is £500-650 depending on what the company wants.

I am confident about the engine and electrics as i can see anything a surveyor can see. but i would like to be sure the boat wont spring a leak (I'm fairly confident as it was replated 10 years ago and the anodes are in good condition and dont wear down much- but good to be sure)


Please supply any definitions of an "Insurance Survey" and names of insurance companies that accept them, and how often they are required (10 years seems reasonable) and minimum acceptable steel thickness.

I would also be interested in a basic full survey if such a thing exists
 

 

There are two sides in having a survey that an insurer might want: one to asses the hull integrity, and one to asses the insurance value of the boat. Above a certain standard, they will offer you the option of comprehensive insurance; below a standard, and third party will be your option. But you need to clarify what the insurance agent themselves require of a survey. They will also stipulate the standard of a surveyor's qualifications. When you find one, it is a good idea to ask the insurance company, in writing (email), if your choice is acceptable to them. 

 

 

Edited by Higgs
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We were with gjw with our barge. It was 80 years old when we brought it and they accepted our survey which we had done at purchase. A hull survey was the needed every 7 years. Admittedly the Belgian surveyor was Lloyds listed which certainly helped.

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There was someone on here a few months ago had a survey and sent it to his insurance company and it didn't contain the information they required. So ask first EXACTLY what they want covering.

 

 

 

Edited by ditchcrawler
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I agree that its up to me to agree with an insurer what the survey should cover.
GJW are asking for more than I require at higher cost so I'm looking for insurance companies that will accept an insurance survey.

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2 minutes ago, rogerc said:

I'm looking for insurance companies that will accept an insurance survey.

 

Define 'insurance survey'

Each company will no doubt have different requirements, and / or the qualifications of the surveyor.

 

Phone each company you are interested in and ASK then what they require.

4 minutes ago, rogerc said:

GJW are asking for more than I require at higher cost

 

Surely its not a case of what YOU require, simply what the insurer will accept.

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1 minute ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Define 'insurance survey'

Each company will no doubt have different requirements, and / or the qualifications of the surveyor.

 

Phone each company you are interested in and ASK then what they require.

Don't hold your breath - I found the front line (sales staff) were a bit vague - and that's from a 'well respected' insurer broker.

The usual response is aka out of the water hull survey and market value. Nobody seemed interested in the internal equipment etc

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Just now, OldGoat said:

Don't hold your breath - I found the front line (sales staff) were a bit vague - and that's from a 'well respected' insurer broker.

The usual response is aka out of the water hull survey and market value. Nobody seemed interested in the internal equipment etc

 

Assumptions are dangerous.

 

See the link posted by Ditchcrawler (about 6 posts ago)

 

Conclusion :

"My survey not acceptable to the insurers, my own fault should have asked what they wanted before getting a survey done"

 

 

 

The whole boat insurance market has been turned upside down this year, with Lloyds refusing to allow insurers to accept boat insurance unless they achieve certain targets for improving profitability. Their licence to operate will not be renewed.

 

Each time the insurance question arises I have posted the letter from Lloyds explaining it.

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I'll post it agaiin :

 

 

I have mentioned this a time or two in the last couple of months, the marine insurance industry is going thru turmoil at present, with the instruction from Lloyds of London that the industry is unsustainable at present levels and following some huge claims Lloyds are changing the requirements from brokers offering marine insurance.

 

They have told each 'provider' that they must produce a business plan showing that their business is sustainable and profitable, the Business plan must be approved by Lloyds before they are allowed to trade.

 

Several providers have already had their licence to trade rescinded.

 

As one example It now seems that all business will be only accepted on a 'market value' instead of 'agreed value'.

I have had agreed value insurance for many years and this all came to light when I noticed that my renewal said 'market value' only, on the instruction of Lloyds.

 

I have previously posted extracts from the letters explaining all the wherefores.

 

"For the first time in over 200 years in the history of Lloyds, special measure have been imposed demanding that all Syndicates writing Yacht insurance submit a sustainable business plan, in the absence of which they would be precluded from writing this class of business. This is because the market has spiralled down to a fundamentally unsustainable level of rates resulting in consistent attritional underwriting losses compounded by catastrophic (storm) claims. ........................................

............................. we continue to write yacht business but we are now instructed to increase rates. All insurers are following suit except those who are now precluded from writing yacht insurance ...............................

 

It goes on.

 

The cover on your policy remains unchanged except for the change that the 'Agreed Value' option is no longer available and the following is substituted :

 

If your craft is a total loss the MOST your insurers will now pay is the MARKET VALUE of this item up to the SUM INSURED in YOUR SCHEDULE  (their bold)

 

 

Maybe, this new increased standard of surveys is part of the 'new normal' for boat insurance.

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1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

What do you consider is an insurance survey ?

I was then going to ask that. There seems to be no survey that is acceptable to all insurers unless it covers every aspect of the boat

Edited by ditchcrawler
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13 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

I was then going to ask that. There seems to be no survey that is acceptable to all insurers unless it covers every aspect of the boat

 

The OP has already said he is not prepared to pay for what GJW require of the survey.

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Have just had survey as required by GJW as my 48 ft boat is also 30 years old this year.

Their instructions were 'a full out of water survey' and 'valuation'.

It took a little under 2 days for a marine surveyor to carry out, I cant believe how thorough it was even down to serial nos for engine, whether every electrical socket works, what cabling is used etc and then any failings or repairs necessary. 20 page pdf. But I feel I know my boat inside out now after reading it. Ultrasonic readings taken every metre, 3 x on the sides, then again every metre on the base plate.

Thankfully my boat is in very sound condition all over. Started out as 8- 6 - 4,

Base plate at worse point was 7.2 mm but mostly 7.6 or7.7.

Sides were mostly 5.9 still, worst point was 5.6.

Thankfully  no welding repairs to do, just a little routine maintenance

Revised valuation now plus 11k  on previous insured price.

I really should be pleased about the report, but cant help thinking I should now sell it

 

Forgot to say survey cost £650, plus docking, new anodes and blacking another £1200.

Edited by Karen Lea Rainey
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5 minutes ago, Karen Lea Rainey said:

Their instructions were 'a full out of water survey' and 'valuation'.

 

 

Did they specify the surveyors qualifications, or provide a list of 'approved' surveyors, or did you just pick anyone you fancy ?

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I knew it would be  a significant cost, but my other half said if you had a £30k car on the drive or a £30k watch in a draw." Are you telling me you wouldn't insure it properly".

That convinced me to just spend the money and be thankful. 

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My full purchase survey on our 45ft boat in 2011 took about 4 hours and was extremely comprehensive.  I often refer to it to see what I've got  :) I'm insured with GJW so they are obviously happy with it.

 

I think it cost £450, or £10 per ft. I'd expect it to be around £15 per ft a decade on.

 

As long as I can arrange it when I'm lifted next, I'll be having a full survey, both to make sure the Hull remains sound, and also the fittings are OK. In the first survey, the surveyor spotted a few things that were degrading and would need attention, and he proved correct in every case.

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