Compost toilet size

[Feeby100]

Compost toilet size Are the units wider than a normal pump out toilet because I want to remove the pump out toilet and fit a composting toilet in the aperture but the space is very tight would a composting just fit in its place

[mrsmelly]

[LadyG]

Did OP get the recent boater's update?

Perhaps he has a garden?

Edited March 14, 2021 by LadyG

[Alan de Enfield]

13 minutes ago, Feeby100 said:

Compost toilet size Are the units wider than a normal pump out toilet because I want to remove the pump out toilet and fit a composting toilet in the aperture but the space is very tight would a composting just fit in its place

 

You know what button to press don't you.......................

 

You have read this (and other threads) haven't you ?

 

C&RT say don't empty your compost toilet in our bins. - General Boating - Canal World

[Feeby100]

I seen that it a question for my mate no me I should’ve worded it better he wants a composting toilet so I was just wondering if the size of the actual bet you sit on his wider all the same size

[Alan de Enfield]

2 minutes ago, Feeby100 said:

I seen that it a question for my mate no me I should’ve worded it better he wants a composting toilet so I was just wondering if the size of the actual bet you sit on his wider all the same size

 

If you are a mate, you could point out he is wasting his (?) £1000 unless he has made arrangements to properly dispose of his 'output'.

[Feeby100]

Will do thanks 

[LadyG]

Just to put you inthe picture, there is a massive post about these toilets: essentially, he CRT have changed the rules, and in the future, the residues have to be disposed of in a garden, and not just any random garden!

 

[OldGoat]

I think the short answer is that a composting loo WILL be wider than any normal boat loo pan / seat. I'm avoiding any comment on composting...

[Feeby100]

Thanks 

[David Mack]

13 hours ago, OldGoat said:

I think the short answer is that a composting loo WILL be wider than any normal boat loo pan / seat. 

But since there are many different models of composting and non composting loos, you cannot make a definitive statement to that effect.

[Alan de Enfield]

13 minutes ago, David Mack said:

But since there are many different models of composting and non composting loos, you cannot make a definitive statement to that effect.

 

Buckets come in varying sizes (as do bin-bags).

[robtheplod]

When we looked at this the compost toilets were a little bigger (especially depth due to a bucket behind and a large bottle in front layout) and unnecessarily expensive considering how basic they are - maybe cashing in on the green revolution!??

 

We found we could build one for a fraction of the price into the bathroom which would look better. .... however since 'composting' is seen as the new evil on these forums and with CRT coming out with their odd press release we've not done anything and still have pumpout...... maybe CRT will clear up on the recommendations?

Edited March 15, 2021 by robtheplod

[Alan de Enfield]

2 minutes ago, robtheplod said:

maybe CRT will clear up on the recommendations?

 

Have you seen the latest (12/3/21) C&RT 'release'on the subject ?

 

It is a long article with many FAQ;s but the summary is  - you have until December to sort it out, either by finding a suitabe place to compost it or .......................

 

 

If you’re considering getting a separator/compost toilet for your boat, please only do so if you have the ability to completely compost the solid waste from your toilet yourself or have access to somewhere that will do this for you. If you don’t have the ability to do this, then getting a composting/separator toilet is not the best solution for you. Pump out and elsan facilities are available across our network that boats with tanks or cassette toilets can use instead.

 

If you currently have a separator/compost toilet on your boat and are not able to completely compost the solid waste from your toilet yourself or have access to somewhere that will do it for you, then the alternative disposal method of bagging and binning it is not an environmentally sustainable way to deal with this waste. Bagged solid waste disposed of in bins can also lead to cross contamination of other content, which otherwise is sorted and mostly recycled, and can require that the whole content of the bin needing to be disposed of in landfill. Sending waste to landfill adds costs as landfill taxes are charged.

 

If you have a separator/compost toilet on your boat and have been putting bagged and binned waste in our waste bins, you need to find an alternative way to dispose of this waste. We appreciate that you might not be able to do this straight away, and in the interim small quantities of securely bagged waste can be disposed of in Trust bins if there is no alternative. We respectfully ask that you only do this as a last resort. From the end of December 2021 we request that no bagged solid waste from separator/compost toilets is disposed of in Canal & River Trust waste bins. We will continue to work with boaters and others to identify a sustainable solution for the disposal of this waste.

 

[robtheplod]

23 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Have you seen the latest (12/3/21) C&RT 'release'on the subject ?

 

It is a long article with many FAQ;s but the summary is  - you have until December to sort it out, either by finding a suitabe place to compost it or .......................

 

 

If you’re considering getting a separator/compost toilet for your boat, please only do so if you have the ability to completely compost the solid waste from your toilet yourself or have access to somewhere that will do this for you. If you don’t have the ability to do this, then getting a composting/separator toilet is not the best solution for you. Pump out and elsan facilities are available across our network that boats with tanks or cassette toilets can use instead.

 

If you currently have a separator/compost toilet on your boat and are not able to completely compost the solid waste from your toilet yourself or have access to somewhere that will do it for you, then the alternative disposal method of bagging and binning it is not an environmentally sustainable way to deal with this waste. Bagged solid waste disposed of in bins can also lead to cross contamination of other content, which otherwise is sorted and mostly recycled, and can require that the whole content of the bin needing to be disposed of in landfill. Sending waste to landfill adds costs as landfill taxes are charged.

 

If you have a separator/compost toilet on your boat and have been putting bagged and binned waste in our waste bins, you need to find an alternative way to dispose of this waste. We appreciate that you might not be able to do this straight away, and in the interim small quantities of securely bagged waste can be disposed of in Trust bins if there is no alternative. We respectfully ask that you only do this as a last resort. From the end of December 2021 we request that no bagged solid waste from separator/compost toilets is disposed of in Canal & River Trust waste bins. We will continue to work with boaters and others to identify a sustainable solution for the disposal of this waste.

 

Thanks Alan, yes I have seen this... I was getting at coming up with a long term solution for those who have compost toilets but not the ability to get rid of the waste at home.....  seems odd to come down hard on these people, but its all been discussed elsewhere......

[LadyG]

1 hour ago, robtheplod said:

When we looked at this the compost toilets were a little bigger (especially depth due to a bucket behind and a large bottle in front layout) and unnecessarily expensive considering how basic they are - maybe cashing in on the green revolution!??

 

We found we could build one for a fraction of the price into the bathroom which would look better. .... however since 'composting' is seen as the new evil on these forums and with CRT coming out with their odd press release we've not done anything and still have pumpout...... maybe CRT will clear up on the recommendations?

CRT have made it clear.

No more bin and bagging after 22nd Dec 2021.

Anyone who has the capability for composting, which is a complex process, may wish to continue, and their compost will be suitable for growing salads. 

Anyone who lives on a boat ,  and has no garden with proper composting facilities should not think the food grown on their 'compost'is safe to eat.

Edited March 15, 2021 by LadyG

[haggis]

6 minutes ago, LadyG said:

They have madevit clear.

No more bin and bagging after 22nd Dec 20210

Being devil's advocate, I wonder how this is going to be enforced

 

Haggis

[robtheplod]

7 minutes ago, LadyG said:

They have madevit clear.

No more bin and bagging after 22nd Dec 20210

Indeed, but just keen to know what methods they hope (eventually) to be providing for those with compost toilets as mentioned in here:

The boating team blog | Boat toilet waste disposal | Canal & River Trust

" With the increasing popularity of composting toilets, we are hoping to provide facilities for solid waste from composting loos in future."

 

Thinking of those with these toilets, it would be nice to know what these plans may be.....

[IanD]

22 minutes ago, robtheplod said:

Indeed, but just keen to know what methods they hope (eventually) to be providing for those with compost toilets as mentioned in here:

The boating team blog | Boat toilet waste disposal | Canal & River Trust

" With the increasing popularity of composting toilets, we are hoping to provide facilities for solid waste from composting loos in future."

 

Thinking of those with these toilets, it would be nice to know what these plans may be.....

They don't have any plans because nobody can come up with any that work financially and logistically for the canal system -- except maybe one poo point in central London as a "green technology demonstrator"...

 

They have "aspirations" for such plans, which is one way to avoid being accused of not considering (the majority of) compost toilet owners who don't compost their waste properly.

 

"We will continue to work with boaters and others to identify a sustainable solution for the disposal of this waste."

 

It's easier to say "we're looking at it" than admit flat-out that there is no solution on the horizon, the poo fairy is not going to magic up a way to solve this, and disposing of it is now the boaters' problem.

 

Boaters who chose to install these toilets -- remember, nobody made them do it, they did it because it was convenient for them -- now have until Dec 2021 to find a legal and acceptable way to deal with their waste themselves, or replace the toilet.

Edited March 15, 2021 by IanD

[robtheplod]

10 minutes ago, IanD said:

They don't have any plans because nobody can come up with any that work financially and logistically for the canal system -- except maybe one poo point in central London as a "green technology demonstrator"...

 

They have "aspirations" for such plans, which is one way to avoid being accused of not considering (the majority of) compost toilet owners who don't compost their waste properly.

 

It's easier to say "we're looking at it" than admit flat-out that there is no solution on the horizon, the poo fairy is not going to magic up a way to solve this, and disposing of it is now the boaters' problem.

 

Boaters who chose to install these toilets -- remember, nobody made them do it, they did it because it was convenient for them -- now have to find a legal and acceptable way to deal with their waste themselves, or replace the toilet.

All true, but I don't recall reading on the CRT website even a year ago that compost toilets should not be fitted, meaning why would boaters not fit them in the past?  I have no strong views either way as I don't even have a compost toilet, but surely so many have fitted these toilets who don't have access to home composting facilities that this waste will continue to be put into bins beyond December. I think saying not to put in the bins beyond X date is a little naïve of CRT. Boaters chose composting for lots of different reasons - one being to avoid pumpout/elsans, so that reason wont go away......

Edited March 15, 2021 by robtheplod

[IanD]

27 minutes ago, haggis said:

Being devil's advocate, I wonder how this is going to be enforced

 

Haggis

Maybe by the poo lynch mob?

 

A cratch full of your own uncomposted poo could well put miscreant bag'n'binners off...

 

Not that I'm in any way suggesting this as a solution, but peer pressure from other boaters can be a powerful thing ?

[IanD]

Just now, robtheplod said:

All true, but I don't recall reading on the CRT website even a year ago that compost toilets should not be fitted, meaning why would boaters not fit them in the past?  I have no strong views either way as I don't even have a compost toilet, but surely so many have fitted these toilets who don't have access to home composting facilities that this waste will continue to be put into bins beyond December. I think saying not to put in the bins beyond X date is a little naïve of CRT.

CaRT always said that the waste should be composted. Unfortunately they then went on to say that this could be put into their bins if double-bagged. This get-out has proved unsustainable so they've now changed the policy.

 

If they don't specify a cutoff date, there's no reason for boaters to stop doing it. I don't think CaRT are being naive here, they have no other option.

 

If enough boaters don't comply with their new policy and carry on bag'n'binning after then, CaRT will have to find a way of enforcing the policy. Since policing of "the offence" (bag'n'binning) is impossible (middle of the night? when nobody's looking?), this is likely to mean banning these toilets from canal boats, possibly using BSS or insurance if they can't do it via license conditions.

[robtheplod]

23 minutes ago, IanD said:

CaRT always said that the waste should be composted. Unfortunately they then went on to say that this could be put into their bins if double-bagged. This get-out has proved unsustainable so they've now changed the policy.

 

If they don't specify a cutoff date, there's no reason for boaters to stop doing it. I don't think CaRT are being naive here, they have no other option.

 

If enough boaters don't comply with their new policy and carry on bag'n'binning after then, CaRT will have to find a way of enforcing the policy. Since policing of "the offence" (bag'n'binning) is impossible (middle of the night? when nobody's looking?), this is likely to mean banning these toilets from canal boats, possibly using BSS or insurance if they can't do it via license conditions.

I think CRT need to get real. If they ban composting from their bins then it will occur anyway if no alternatives are in place. If they take the bins away, it will appear along the towpath, in the hedges or canal if no alternatives are in place. Alternatives need to be found before bans occur or you're not gaining anything - you're actually making it worse, with greater cleanup/disposal costs....  CRT have not previously discouraged boaters from composting toilets so this is partly a problem of their own making???

 

Using BSS or insurance are interesting ways forward, but this impacts on those who do compost correctly, so not sure if that's workable or fair?  Maybe if you have to show onboard composting occurring?

 

Anyone with a compost loo with an opinion?  what would you do when the ban comes in?  change to an cassette/pumpout??

Edited March 15, 2021 by robtheplod

[IanD]

14 minutes ago, robtheplod said:

I think CRT need to get real. If they ban composting from their bins then it will occur anyway if no alternatives are in place. If they take the bins away, it will appear along the towpath, in the hedges or canal if no alternatives are in place. Alternatives need to be found before bans occur or you're not gaining anything - you're actually making it worse, with greater cleanup/disposal costs....  CRT have not previously discouraged boaters from composting toilets so this is partly a problem of their own making???

 

Using BSS or insurance are interesting ways forward, but this impacts on those who do compost correctly, so not sure if that's workable or fair?  Maybe if you have to show onboard composting occurring?

You obviously weren't following the discussions about all this...

 

CaRT don't have any choice, they have to ban bag'n'binning. Allowing it in the past was partly their fault, but just to be crystal clear boaters who did this did it full well knowing that they weren't supposed to do it (as CaRT said, which along with the name "composting" toilet should have been a clue), but they were (unfortunately) allowed to get away with it.

 

It would be great to find a way of stopping persistent bag'n'binners after Dec 2021 while allowing proper composters to continue, but again this is pretty much impossible to enforce -- they'd apply for an exception, CaRT would have to send an inspector round, show them a compost heap and job done. Then afterwards they can just sail away and carry on bag'n'binning. A system which relies on the goodwill of people *wanting* to compost their waste is not going to stop those who *don't* want to... ?

 

It's indeed not fair on the proper composters. However the system has been abused by the bag'n'binners -- even though this practice wasn't banned! -- and now the PCs will suffer too, unless everyone follows CaRTs new policy.

 

Don't blame CaRT, blame the bag'n'binners...

Edited March 15, 2021 by IanD

[mrsmelly]

12 minutes ago, robtheplod said:

I think CRT need to get real. If they ban composting from their bins then it will occur anyway if no alternatives are in place. If they take the bins away, it will appear along the towpath, in the hedges or canal if no alternatives are in place. Alternatives need to be found before bans occur or you're not gaining anything - you're actually making it worse, with greater cleanup/disposal costs....  CRT have not previously discouraged boaters from composting toilets so this is partly a problem of their own making???

 

Using BSS or insurance are interesting ways forward, but this impacts on those who do compost correctly, so not sure if that's workable or fair?  Maybe if you have to show onboard composting occurring?

 

Anyone with a compost loo with an opinion?  what would you do when the ban comes in?  change to an cassette/pumpout??

One major problem CART have are " People " When I opened Annies Tea room at Thrupp in the rubbish compound we had a full set of recycling bins of all colours all clearly labeled provided by CART. Almost immediately they were abused by boaters and car owners alike putting anything in and around any bin. Signs were put up telling people not to abuse them but were ignored and eventualy the bins were all removed leaving just the standard non recycling bin for general rubbish. If bins were put for composting they would go the same way in short order.