Oceanflex single wall tinned cable?

[Adam1991]

Hi, can anyone confirm if oceanflex thin wall tinned cable is the correct choice for a new narrowboat build? 
 

See link below for the ones I’m thinking of installing (different sizes to work with volt drop) 

 

https://www.asap-supplies.com/brands/oceanflex

 

thanks! 

[nicknorman]

14 minutes ago, Adam Mc Gowan said:

Hi, can anyone confirm if oceanflex thin wall tinned cable is the correct choice for a new narrowboat build? 
 

See link below for the ones I’m thinking of installing (different sizes to work with volt drop) 

 

https://www.asap-supplies.com/brands/oceanflex

 

thanks! 

Yes that looks good stuff for 12 or 24v wiring. Not suitable for mains wiring. When connecting this sort of fine-stranded wire to screw-down terminals where the actual screw hits the wire, you should use bootlace ferrules to prevent the screw from cutting the strands.

[matty40s]

Yes, but shop around.....Other sellers are available....

[Tony Brooks]

Although far from best practice there are thousands of inland boats wired with non-tinned multi-strand cable and apart from very exposed and damp locations are perfectly reliable. maybe in 30 years or so you may have to replace  a run that has corroded but its rare. IF the ISOs for RCD are OK with   using non-tinned cable or if you are not fitting out to the RCD price up non-tinned cable and decide.

[Higgs]

 

Or...SplitCharge.co.uk | Quality Split Charging Systems at Affordable Prices

[nicknorman]

Or, since we are posting alternatives, https://www.12voltplanet.co.uk/cable.html

 

[Alan de Enfield]

8 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

Although far from best practice there are thousands of inland boats wired with non-tinned multi-strand cable and apart from very exposed and damp locations are perfectly reliable. maybe in 30 years or so you may have to replace  a run that has corroded but its rare. IF the ISOs for RCD are OK with   using non-tinned cable or if you are not fitting out to the RCD price up non-tinned cable and decide.

 

 

The RCD (ISO 10133) does not demand Tinned conductors,

 

But does say that ALL CONDUCTORS MUST HAVE A TERMINAL

 

 

10.2 Metals used for terminal studs, nuts and washers shall be corrosion resistant and galvanically compatible with the conductor and terminal. Aluminium and unplated steel shall not be used for studs, nuts or washers in electrical circuits.

10.3 All conductors shall have suitable terminals installed, i.e. no bare wires attached to stud or screw connections.

10.4 Screw-clamp or screwless terminal blocks shall conform to IEC 60947-7-1. Other terminals shall be of the ring or self-locking captive-spade type, not dependent on screw or nut tightness alone for retention on the stud or screw. An exception is that friction-type connectors may be used in circuits not exceeding 20 A if the connection does not separate when subjected to a force of 20 N.

10.5 Twist-on connectors (wire nuts) shall not be used

10.6 Exposed shanks of terminals shall be protected against accidental shorting by the use of insulating barriers or sleeves, except for those in the grounding system.

10.7 Solderless crimp-on terminals and connectors shall be attached with the type of crimping tool designed for the termination used and for a connection meeting the following requirements. Each conductor-to-connector and conductor-to-terminal connection shall be capable of withstanding a tensile force equal to at least the value shown in Table 1 for the smallest conductor in the connection, without separating.

 

No more than four conductors shall be secured to one terminal stud.

 

[Keith M]

ISO 10133 has not existed  since 01 January 2020.

[nicknorman]

6 minutes ago, Keith M said:

ISO 10133 has not existed  since 01 January 2020.

That’s a good point, is the whole RCD thing still relevant in U.K. after brexit?

[Alan de Enfield]

6 minutes ago, Keith M said:

ISO 10133 has not existed  since 01 January 2020.

 

It is now a combined (AC & DC electical) specification, but as far as I am aware the content under the new number (ISO 13297:2020) has not been changed. I now have no need to have up-to-date specifications so do not plan on buying this latest version to check.

 

Do you know it there are any actual material changes ?

[Alan de Enfield]

2 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

That’s a good point, is the whole RCD thing still relevant in U.K. after brexit?

 

AFAIK 'we' agreed to keep all previously agreed "EU" laws in force until (or if) they were officially revoked. 

I cannot see the RCD being very far up the list for Parliamentary time.

 

Obviously "boat builders" will need to comply with any legislation in force in the markets to which they are selling, so, even if we do revoke the RCD in the UK, most builders (except for NB's) will need to comply.

[nicknorman]

1 minute ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

AFAIK 'we' agreed to keep all previously agreed "EU" laws in force until (or if) they were officially revoked. 

I cannot see the RCD being very far up the list for Parliamentary time.

 

Obviously "boat builders" will need to comply with any legislation in force in the markets to which they are selling, so, even if we do revoke the RCD in the UK, most builders (except for NB's) will need to comply.

I know we said we would keep EU laws in force for 2 years minimum, but interestingly in aviation we have just changed a few. Probably because Grant Shapps is a leisure pilot! Last year we had to change the rules for VMC/VFR to keep EASA happy, that has just been revoked back to the way it was. And at the same time we have just announced that EASA-type medical certificates which were going to be mandatory this autumn, are now not required, we can go back to the self-declaration DVLA-based system that has been in place for years.

[bizzard]

I think we're back with our own CAA now, AND they've cleared the Boeing 737 MAX for service, and Ryanair has 134 ordered.  HELP!!! We're right under the flightpath of Stansted airport.

[Keith M]

The RCD is replaced by Recreational Craft Regulation ( RCR)

[TheBiscuits]

1 hour ago, nicknorman said:

That’s a good point, is the whole RCD thing still relevant in U.K. after brexit?

 

There are a couple of tweaks (eg UKCA mark instead of CE mark) but yes.

 

The updated guidance (Jan 2021) is here:

 

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/950712/Guide-to-recreational-craft-regulations-2017-tp.pdf

[Keith M]

1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Do you know it there are any actual material changes ?

The new ISO should be published later this month or early in February 2021
I have not seen a copy yet. 

[Alan de Enfield]

Interesting that the definition of 'placed on the market' is now defined, I could never find a detailed definition in the RCD paperwork.

 

 

A fully manufactured good is ‘placed on the market’ when there is a written or verbal agreement (or offer of an agreement) to transfer ownership or possession or other rights in the product. This does not require physical transfer of the good. You can usually provide proof of placing on the market on the basis of any relevant document ordinarily used in business transactions, including: • contracts of sale concerning goods which have already been manufactured and meet the legal requirements; • invoices; and • documents concerning the shipping of goods for distribution

[BEngo]

Interesting to see the words "fully manufactured" there.   I wonder if the drafter thought a boat shell was  a fully manufactured good or a partly manufactured boat?

N

[Alan de Enfield]

11 minutes ago, BEngo said:

Interesting to see the words "fully manufactured" there.   I wonder if the drafter thought a boat shell was  a fully manufactured good or a partly manufactured boat?

N

 

Since 2017 "fully manufactured" has covered everything from a 'bare hull' to 'sailaways', to a 'completed boat'.

 

 

The new Directive (2013/53/EU) became mandatory on the 18th January 2017, following a period of transition from the old Recreational Craft Directive (94/25/EC).

The new Recreational Craft & Personal Watercraft Directive makes the position on ‘part completed’ a lot clearer and will impact both canal boat builders and anyone purchasing either a sailaway or hull only craft.

 

The new Directive has effectively put an end to Sailaway boats (completed to all variety of levels) being supplied with an Annex lll(a) Declaration as was previously possible under Directive 94/25/EU. Under the new Directive (2013/53/EU) Sailaways (including hull only) would need to be supplied as completed craft.

Therefore for anyone purchasing a narrow boat sailaway from 18th January 2017 must ensure you have the necessary paperwork from your boat builder that is required of a ‘completed’ craft up to the current point of completion, this includes:

• A builders plate – makers details and technical information
• A CE mark
• A Craft or Hull Identification Number (CIN or HIN) – it is carried in two places on the boat; one should be hidden for security.
• An owners manual with information needed to use and maintain the boat safety
• A declaration of conformity (DoC)

A CE marked craft shows the craft is compliant when it was placed on the market for the first time. It remains valid unless a major alteration to the craft takes place which would require a re-assessment of the craft.

‘Major Craft Conversion’ would be applicable to the fit out of the majority of sailaway boats, and needs to be factored in when planning your fit out. Once you have completed the fit out of your sailway boat, the boat would require a Post Construction Assessment and the documentation, builders plate and CE markings all need to be updated. Although a self assessment is possible, it is not recommended as the fitter would resume all responsibility as the manufacturer and it is also a lengthy and involved process. In the worse case scenario, it could mean you are held criminally responsible if the boat sank and there was loss of life. It is recommended that you appoint a professional to complete the post construction assessment, this would be at of cost of around £2000.

Edited January 29, 2021 by Alan de Enfield