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Leap of faith

Lister 3 cylinder

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Hi everyone,  just wanted to ask are the Lister 3 cylinder engines rare and are spares/parts easy to get hold of? I have seen a boat for sale with this engine, would a newbie with no experience of maintaining an engine be able to cope with this one? Any info/advice appreciated.

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19 minutes ago, Leap of faith said:

Hi everyone,  just wanted to ask are the Lister 3 cylinder engines rare and are spares/parts easy to get hold of? I have seen a boat for sale with this engine, would a newbie with no experience of maintaining an engine be able to cope with this one? Any info/advice appreciated.

You need to tell us the engine designation such as SL3, SR3 and so on. There are all sorts of Lister and Lister-Petter, often called Listers by those who don't now, out there. Some will have relatively easy to get spares while others they may be like hens teeth.

Edited by Tony Brooks

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4 minutes ago, Leap of faith said:

Thanks guys, I need to do a bit of research then and find out some more info.

If the boat is on a website why not post a link so you get opinions about the boat, value and engine.

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If you are unfamiliar with (boats and) engines - it might be worth pointing out that air cooled Listers are a  pain challenge to adapt to today's demands for electircity generation. If yu want some of today's electrical conveniences then it would be prudent to consider an engine swap at some time and cost. Air cooled Listers are incredibly noisy - even at 1500 rpm (I have a commercial SR2 gen set for emergency use at home and it's blurry noisy. I also used to have an SR1 genset running at 3,000 rpm and that was 'unprintably' noisy.

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On 10/01/2021 at 10:47, OldGoat said:

 Air cooled Listers are incredibly noisy - even at 1500 rpm (I have a commercial SR2 gen set for emergency use at home and it's blurry noisy. I also used to have an SR1 genset running at 3,000 rpm and that was 'unprintably' noisy.

When you say you used to have  an SR1, did it blow up?🙂 I was under the impression that SR1's  absolute max rpm was rather lower than 3000. We have here an SR1 emergency fire pump designed to get as much water as possible through a fire hose at high pressure, I consider the engine is at its limit  when governed at 2500 and not happy at that speed. Other SR1s run at 1000 or 1500 and are much more comfortable at that speed. Yes Lister air cooled are noisy but also very reliable- I hand started a 52 year old  SR1 excavator engine the other night- air temperature  was 0deg C, first time  and it was away.

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I shut my eyes when my sr 2 is at half throttle 

its like nini rossi playing ill silenceo 

absolutey sublime 

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3 hours ago, billh said:

When you say you used to have  an SR1, did it blow up?🙂 I was under the impression that SR1's  absolute max rpm was rather lower than 3000. We have here an SR1 emergency fire pump designed to get as much water as possible through a fire hose at high pressure, I consider the engine is at its limit  when governed at 2500 and not happy at that speed. Other SR1s run at 1000 or 1500 and are much more comfortable at that speed. Yes Lister air cooled are noisy but also very reliable- I hand started a 52 year old  SR1 excavator engine the other night- air temperature  was 0deg C, first time  and it was away.

It was some years ago and IIRC the engine plate stated 3000 rpm. It was a road traffic light 240V system and so noisy - thus I gave it away to someone who could run it well away from any other human habitation. The manual went with it, so I only have a memory to remind me....

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series 3 engine means nothing to me, certainly not the model number. The Alde is almost certainly the tall upright one that is now obsolescent. Some like lounge and groove lining out but it does not seem to be to the modern taste.

 

Ex hire and in hire until now I presume. Sounds expensive to me but someone who knows the boat or has a better idea about values will be along.

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SR 3.  Not rare.  In the 2 and 3 cyl versions the SR is a very common canal boat engine.  Spares from MES (Midlands) among  others.  Reliable, unbreakable, noisy.  Prone to oil dilution from fuel  leakage in the injection pump chamber.  Easily spotted because the oil level rises.  Alternator usually drives off the camshaft so high rate charging is hard to achieve.  Keep the cooling fins clean and ensure the overboard vent is clear, change the oil  (and filter if fitted) regularly  and it will go forever.

 

18 HP is enough for 60 ft on canals.  May be a little short for river work with a flow on.  A GUCC pair of boats only had 18 HP.

 

N

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I would have said much the same. Take note of the charging comments. Being an ex hire boat Rose narrowboats may have modified it to overcome the problem but if they have not I suspect in private hands that Lec electric fridge is likely to cause ongoing battery problems unless you do typical hire boat running hours every day.

 

@Rose Narrowboats  is a member so may throw some more light on this but of not we will probably need photos of the alternator and drive before we can advise. Thinking just fitting a "larger" alternator is not likely to solve this potential problem on its own.

 

We don't know what, if anything, has been done hull wise. It is likely to be 6mm hull sides and a 6 or 8mm base plate. being Ex hire the wear lip where the hull sides meet the base plate is likely to be well worn unless it has been renewed. Like wise the rest of the hull ha shad plenty of chance to corrode so I would suggest a survey may be vital.

 

Have we covered insurance? 31 years old probably means 4 yearly insurance hull surveys or only getting third party insurance.

Edited by Tony Brooks

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I have been informed that the hull has been "fully overplated" which to be honest does make me feel a bit nervous. It was done last year at Whilton. On the up side if it is a job then hopefully should be good to go for some time.

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Would a 12v fridge/freezer solve the battery charging problems? I would of course get a pre-purchase out of water survey on any boat I buy. In regards to insurance I need fully comprehensive as it would be my home.  I am assuming that if a hull is fully plated then this would not be a problem? I am also assuming that being fully plated is very costly for a 60ft boat and again I assume the seller is wanting to recoup some of that cost? perhaps that is why it has been commented that it is overpriced.

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Just realised my comment about adding a "12v fridge/freezer" is not applicable.(My lack of knowledge). Reread the comment about "high rate charging is hard to achieve" this is a concern. It was mentioned that photos of the alternator and drive may help. Should I express this concern to the seller and ask for photo's?

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34 minutes ago, Leap of faith said:

Would a 12v fridge/freezer solve the battery charging problems? I would of course get a pre-purchase out of water survey on any boat I buy. In regards to insurance I need fully comprehensive as it would be my home.  I am assuming that if a hull is fully plated then this would not be a problem? I am also assuming that being fully plated is very costly for a 60ft boat and again I assume the seller is wanting to recoup some of that cost? perhaps that is why it has been commented that it is overpriced.

12V fridges  - fridge freezers - take quite a lot of power - hence a alternator on a SR engine just will not have the power to keep any battery pack charged (I'm now waiting for 'incoming')...

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40 minutes ago, Leap of faith said:

Would a 12v fridge/freezer solve the battery charging problems? I would of course get a pre-purchase out of water survey on any boat I buy. In regards to insurance I need fully comprehensive as it would be my home.  I am assuming that if a hull is fully plated then this would not be a problem? I am also assuming that being fully plated is very costly for a 60ft boat and again I assume the seller is wanting to recoup some of that cost? perhaps that is why it has been commented that it is overpriced.

As Shoreline use Lec cabinets I assumed it was a 12V unit so in y view,  especially for a livaboard unless cruising for in  excess of six hours a day, no it wont.

 

Most insurers require a hull survey for comprehensive insurance of boats over 30 yammers old.  At least one does not for long standing customers.  So overplate or not plan for four yearly surveys but you may be lucky so ask some insurers.

 

Overplated boats tend to be cheaper than non-overplated ones in good condition.

 

20 minutes ago, Leap of faith said:

Just realised my comment about adding a "12v fridge/freezer" is not applicable.(My lack of knowledge). Reread the comment about "high rate charging is hard to achieve" this is a concern. It was mentioned that photos of the alternator and drive may help. Should I express this concern to the seller and ask for photo's?

You can try. We need to see the size of the pulleys, the front engine cross member, and any extra shafts or pulleys that may have been installed. I am somewhat sceptical that a broker will be very willing to make the shortcomings clear and may try to be obtuse.

3 minutes ago, OldGoat said:

12V fridges  - fridge freezers - take quite a lot of power - hence a alternator on a SR engine just will not have the power to keep any battery pack charged (I'm now waiting for 'incoming')...

Not from me there wont be. Suggested there may be a problem in the first few posts. We won't know how serious this may be until we can see photos.

 

 

PS just thought while answering the Goat. To emphasise with that engine there is no chance of getting hot water from it so you may be running the Alde 24/7 of it may have an instant gas water heater. Both have ramifications for gas consumption.

Edited by Tony Brooks

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When we sold her some time ago she was powered by an ST3 (so 30hp and plenty of oomph) with a large front pulley and a 70Amp A127 with one of our own design Ampower Services alternator controllers. Central heating was by an Alde 2928 gas boiler, fridge (with freezer compartment in the top) was 12v. About four hours cruising a day was "steady state" in terms of fully recharging the batteries.

 

She's clearly been modified (including the addition of solar) somewhat since we sold her though.

 

I still regret forgetting to take the stickers of the side before we sold her.

Edited by Rose Narrowboats
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You need an alternator rotational speed higher than the standard camshaft drive will give you to get a really useful output. Its fine for long hours of cruising at high engine speeds but if just charging tied up it gets really wearing.

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4 minutes ago, Rose Narrowboats said:

When we sold her some time ago she was powered by an ST3 (so 30hp and plenty of oomph) with a large front pulley and a 70Amp A127 with one of our own design Ampower Services alternator controller. Central heating was by an Alde 2928 gas boiler, fridge was 12v. About four hours cruising a day was "steady state" in terms of fully recharging the batteries.

 

She's clearly been modified (including the addition of solar) somewhat since we sold her though.

 

I still regret forgetting to take the stickers of the side before we sold her.

Thanks for taking the trouble. I am not sure the OP has been correctly informed re the engine and if ist as you say I would be a little happier.

 

A minimum of four hours running for charging a day was what we aimed for on the Bukh and 70 amp Paris Rhone alternator but doing that tied up would drive me nuts with an air cooled engine.

Edited by Tony Brooks

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8 minutes ago, Leap of faith said:

Thankyou for all your help. I have contacted the broker to confirm with the owner that the engine is infact a SR3 as stated in the advert.

I think we would still like to see the photos because I am not fammilliar with the pulley sizes on a SR3

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