Guest Posted December 28, 2020 Report Share Posted December 28, 2020 22 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said: I thought there was a big concrete bit to the left of it. There is. The breach under discussion is not at Pollington which is where this picture was allegedly taken. I think somebody is claiming this shows further evidence of decay along the Aire and Calder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy3196 Posted December 28, 2020 Report Share Posted December 28, 2020 https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/news-and-views/news/an-update-on-the-aire-and-calder-navigation-breach Update 23/12/20 We are aware that where the water levels in the navigation have dropped, isolated sections along the bank have moved inwards as a result of the loss of pressure from the water. Whilst this looks unsightly, it does happen from time to time with canals where we take the water out for maintenance. It is not a cause for concern. Our engineers have checked the waterway this morning and will continue to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Bourke Posted December 28, 2020 Author Report Share Posted December 28, 2020 Thorne side at Cowick, near the breach. Opposite bank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1st ade Posted December 29, 2020 Report Share Posted December 29, 2020 12 hours ago, ditchcrawler said: But with a pub type business then things like the daily menu can be updated as easy as adding a post here. Unfortunately my email is now with Google Build the website with a link to "Today's Specials" called (say) Daily_Specials.pdf (add the tags for always download, don't cache etc). Then the owner saves Daily_Specials.pdf every day and we have an Uncle Robert (OK - you'll still get people mailing at 06:00 saying you haven't updated from last night but that's going to happen whatever the technology) I hate FB although it seems now you can't live without it - I'm still being chased by an American Restaurant in Denver, Colorado, which I visited in March 2019 "You haven't visited for a while" No - I live over 5,000 miles away, I visited the state, never mind your restaurant, once on business 20 months ago - I'm unlikely to do so again - Now go away" (I viewed their page as the only way to find it by road and meet my American Colleagues) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerra Posted December 29, 2020 Report Share Posted December 29, 2020 26 minutes ago, 1st ade said: I hate FB although it seems now you can't live without it I think you will find it is perfectly possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Up-Side-Down Posted December 29, 2020 Report Share Posted December 29, 2020 12 hours ago, The Happy Nomad said: Did he specify exacty where? Looks a bit narrow to me for Pollington. It is now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchcrawler Posted December 30, 2020 Report Share Posted December 30, 2020 Some photos on this Blog https://oleanna.co.uk/2020/12/30/overnight-improvements-breach-part-7-29th-december/ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Up-Side-Down Posted December 30, 2020 Report Share Posted December 30, 2020 Whilst the situation with the canal itself at the breach site and the likely causes have been quite well covered (dare I say in depth?) it has been drawn to my attention that the situation below the canal bed is far more complex with the story beginning with Vermuyden and pretty much ending with the construction of the M62 motorway. It's interesting that both CRT and ABP are consulting with probably the most experienced boatman in the region as to possible long-term solutions. It's certainly in John Branford's best interest to get it right so that the sea-dredged sand flow from Hull to Leeds can both continue and, ultimately, thrive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alway Swilby Posted December 31, 2020 Report Share Posted December 31, 2020 (edited) The new repair has partially failed. CRT have been to have a look and say there is not a risk of flooding. I don't know the affect to the water level in Goole. It was about a foot below normal when we left there at about 2pm Wednesday which was the highest we've seen since the breach. More pictures in Thursdays blog. Oleanna.co.uk. Pictures taken by Mark Penn from his drone. Edited December 31, 2020 by Alway Swilby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 31, 2020 Report Share Posted December 31, 2020 11 minutes ago, Alway Swilby said: The new repair has partially failed. CRT have been to have a look and say there is not a risk of flooding. I don't know the affect to the water level in Goole. It was about a foot below normal when we left there at about 2pm Wednesday which was the highest we've seen since the breach. More pictures in Thursdays blog. Oleanna.co.uk. Pictures taken by Mark Penn from his drone. Those pics are helpful as it helps reference exactly where the breach is. Up to now it wasnt 100% clear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PNB116 Posted December 31, 2020 Report Share Posted December 31, 2020 On 22/12/2020 at 10:10, Mike Todd said: BTW, can so0meone remind me of just when was the golden age when the canals were maintained so well that they never failed? Hold on, I'll just fetch my rose tinted glasses to look that up... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orwellian Posted January 4, 2021 Report Share Posted January 4, 2021 Have they fixed it yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Bourke Posted January 5, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 5, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Orwellian said: Have they fixed it yet? No, in fact the "repair" is failing and the CRT have lowered the levels on that stretch even more. We in Goole are isolated from the canal by the defective emergency stop gates. Taken from a Facebook Barge Group. Edited January 5, 2021 by Joe Bourke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orwellian Posted January 5, 2021 Report Share Posted January 5, 2021 Thanks for that. Not looking good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Todd Posted January 5, 2021 Report Share Posted January 5, 2021 Oleanna's reports (see https://oleanna.co.uk/) seem a little more positive with regard to water levels. The CaRT quote in Joe's post I think means that they have (already) lowered the water level - in fact did so as soon as the breach was reported, rather than that they have reduced it further from the initial level. Certain that is not Pip's reading of the levels as measured by them and others at Goole, taking their pontoon as a reference level. As far as I can see, the short term repair is working about as well as could have been expected - it was only intended to prevent major flooding and the reports suggest that it is not leaking any more over the past few days. Once the coffer dams are in place then clearly the leak is stabilised but it particularly bad news for the resumption of commercial carrying as it does suggest that the permanent repair will not be a speedy affair. After all, it seems that the immediate cause was a failure of a third party culvert (much as happened recently on T&M) so it will involve several parties to agree on a solution that not only fixes the immediate problem but deals with its underlying weakness. It is not clear to me how much the culvert is in active use and how much it is a relic of a former drainage scheme. In any event, it sounds as if they are expecting to discover a significant failure - the images I have seen do suggest that it was more than a simple bank collapse type of breach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Bourke Posted January 5, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 5, 2021 We have dropped a foot in the last 24 hours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fanshaft Posted January 5, 2021 Report Share Posted January 5, 2021 11 hours ago, Mike Todd said: Oleanna's reports (see https://oleanna.co.uk/) seem a little more positive with regard to water levels. The CaRT quote in Joe's post I think means that they have (already) lowered the water level - in fact did so as soon as the breach was reported, rather than that they have reduced it further from the initial level. Certain that is not Pip's reading of the levels as measured by them and others at Goole, taking their pontoon as a reference level. As far as I can see, the short term repair is working about as well as could have been expected - it was only intended to prevent major flooding and the reports suggest that it is not leaking any more over the past few days. Once the coffer dams are in place then clearly the leak is stabilised but it particularly bad news for the resumption of commercial carrying as it does suggest that the permanent repair will not be a speedy affair. After all, it seems that the immediate cause was a failure of a third party culvert (much as happened recently on T&M) so it will involve several parties to agree on a solution that not only fixes the immediate problem but deals with its underlying weakness. It is not clear to me how much the culvert is in active use and how much it is a relic of a former drainage scheme. In any event, it sounds as if they are expecting to discover a significant failure - the images I have seen do suggest that it was more than a simple bank collapse type of breach. Thanks Mike. I think this represents the situation very fairly. The major problem is that this has (as stated) not turned out to be a conventional breach (if such a thing exists!) and the actual position of the leak is not yet known and won't be until the immediate area is drained. This is why it's been difficult to stop the leak completely with stone etc. Once the extent of the repair needed has been established the Trust then has to decide whether to re-open the canal on a temporary basis (assuming that is possible) while designs etc are agreed, and permissions obtained from third parties various, or whether to keep the canal closed and crack on as soon as possible. Clearly the latter would be cheaper, but the former would be preferred by the commercial operators and leisure users. David L Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alway Swilby Posted January 6, 2021 Report Share Posted January 6, 2021 12 hours ago, Joe Bourke said: We have dropped a foot in the last 24 hours. It's not unusual in normal times, when there is no breach and the gates by the railway bridge are open, for the level in the docks and the two marinas to drop by about 6" just by the operation of Ocean Lock a few times. So I suspect that may the cause of the fluctuation. How is the level now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Bourke Posted January 6, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 6, 2021 15 hours ago, Alway Swilby said: It's not unusual in normal times, when there is no breach and the gates by the railway bridge are open, for the level in the docks and the two marinas to drop by about 6" just by the operation of Ocean Lock a few times. So I suspect that may the cause of the fluctuation. How is the level now? 27-28"' below normal, same as yesterday, but hey it could be Ocean Lock, what do I know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orwellian Posted January 29, 2021 Report Share Posted January 29, 2021 Is anyone able to update us on progress in fixing this breach? Also what effect is it having on the gravel traffic both short and long term? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matty40s Posted January 29, 2021 Report Share Posted January 29, 2021 When it happens, it will be 3 or 4 weeks,2 full dams across waterway either side of breach. Goole docks has apparently got an extra steel gate in place now to try to keep the water level up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alway Swilby Posted January 30, 2021 Report Share Posted January 30, 2021 13 hours ago, Orwellian said: Is anyone able to update us on progress in fixing this breach? Also what effect is it having on the gravel traffic both short and long term? There's more today on our blog here Blog 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orwellian Posted January 30, 2021 Report Share Posted January 30, 2021 Thanks for that Alway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Up-Side-Down Posted January 30, 2021 Report Share Posted January 30, 2021 For an on-the-spot analysis of the situation see page 16 at https://edition.pagesuite-professional.co.uk/html5/reader/production/default.aspx?pubname=&pubid=d192940e-f732-42bc-a9d9-6fbce501da9a Whilst CRT have listened carefully to John Branford's ideas they are still insisting on coffer dams, a temporary supply to Goole docks, de-watering and eyeballing the culvert. The alternative is simply to pile each side of the culvert, taking it out of commission, and pump the drainage water straight into the canal, rather than taking it via the culvert under the canal and then pumping it into the Dutch River. This way the canal can be re-opened and the Leeds aggregate traffic and Rotherham oil run can continue. Then the canal can be widened out again at this point which has always been an obstacle to navigation with the failed section of culvert being right where loaded barges have to open the throttle to power round the sharp corner here. It's inevitable that the culvert is right in the firing line of rather large and powerful propellors. This, combined with the fact that when the canal was widen from 70 to 100 foot, the culvert was not lengthened now causes the problem which will remain until the culvert is taken out of service and the 'necked in' section of the navigation widened out again. This could be done with the waterway back in action once the culvert is piled off. If I was living in the Fishlake area I'd certainly want CRT to be employing John Branford's strategy and generally going in for a great deal more lateral thinking! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Up-Side-Down Posted January 30, 2021 Report Share Posted January 30, 2021 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Up-Side-Down said: For an on-the-spot analysis of the situation see page 16 at https://edition.pagesuite-professional.co.uk/html5/reader/production/default.aspx?pubname=&pubid=d192940e-f732-42bc-a9d9-6fbce501da9a Whilst CRT have listened carefully to John Branford's ideas they are still insisting on coffer dams, a temporary supply to Goole docks, de-watering and eyeballing the culvert. The alternative is simply to pile each side of the culvert, taking it out of commission, and pump the drainage water straight into the canal, rather than taking it via the culvert under the canal and then pumping it into the Dutch River. This way the canal can be re-opened and the Leeds aggregate traffic and Rotherham oil run can continue. Then the canal can be widened out again at this point which has always been an obstacle to navigation with the failed section of culvert being right where loaded barges have to open the throttle to power round the sharp corner here. It's inevitable that the culvert is right in the firing line of rather large and powerful propellors. This, combined with the fact that when the canal was widen from 70 to 100 foot, the culvert was not lengthened now causes the problem which will remain until the culvert is taken out of service and the 'necked in' section of the navigation widened out again. This could be done with the waterway back in action once the culvert is piled off. If I was living in the Fishlake area I'd certainly want CRT to be employing John Branford's strategy and generally going in for a great deal more lateral thinking! The black line on the map shows the 'necked in' area of the navigation dating from the widening of the canal. The culvert was not lengthened at this time so just where loaded barges heading west are having to power round the corner the stern comes dangerously close to the bank. No amount of culvert repair is going to eliminate this fundamental problem. If I was a subscriber to the many conspiracy theories in life, I might be forgiven for thinking that CRT were continuing to do everything in their power to eradicate commercial carrying from the NE waterways ......... Maps showing suggested piling – John Branford.pdf Edited January 30, 2021 by Up-Side-Down Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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