Can anybody help me with what Water pump i need?

[Tony Brooks]

As @cuthound suggested, greenwash and a way of extracting more money from consumers.

[bizzard]

Not unlike the difference betwen so called expensive red fireproof silicone and cheap £2 silicone, no difference according to my experiment. I put a blob of the £10 stuff and a blob of the £2 stuff on my stoves shovel and placed it upon the red hot coals in the stove ''just like roasting chestnuts'' Eventually both silicones broke down into crumble at the same time, neither caught fire, just disintegrated into a crumble.

[Jen-in-Wellies]

1 hour ago, Tony Brooks said:

As @cuthound suggested, greenwash and a way of extracting more money from consumers.

Someone at BW, pre CaRT days, if I remember, fell for it. They had a big publicity thing for a year or so about using low phosphate stuff on board, then it disappeared. Probably when it was pointed out that all the consumer ones already were.

[Alan de Enfield]

45 minutes ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

Someone at BW, pre CaRT days, if I remember, fell for it. They had a big publicity thing for a year or so about using low phosphate stuff on board, then it disappeared. Probably when it was pointed out that all the consumer ones already were.

 

And still they say it (maybe no one has yet pointed it out to them)

 

From the C&RT website (tonight)

 

The rules for boaters as to what is acceptable to go overboard into the water are very simple indeed. There are only two things that are permitted: clean water and 'grey' water. Grey water is the waste water from washing-up dishes and cooking utensils, showers, sinks and washing machines only. Ideally, any detergents used would be more environmentally friendly lower phosphate type soaps.

Edited October 17, 2020 by Alan de Enfield

[Jerra]

There is more to being ecofriendly than merely phosphates.   Biodegradability for example.

[cuthound]

16 hours ago, Jerra said:

There is more to being ecofriendly than merely phosphates.   Biodegradability for example.

 

True, and without people putting detergents into the cut via their washing up water, how long would the spilt diesel slicks last? ??

Edited October 18, 2020 by cuthound

[Alan de Enfield]

1 minute ago, cuthound said:

 

True, and with people putting detergents into the cut via their washing up water, how long would the spilt diesel slicks last? ??

Should that read :

 

..... and without people putting detergents..........

[cuthound]

11 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Should that read :

 

..... and without people putting detergents..........

 

Doh, yes it should, amended now.

[Dolly P.]

I don't know if you lovely people can help me again? I'm having more Water pressure dramas... I've googled and googled but not sure ive got the answer. 

 

Basically... I got a new water pump, fit it, all is well. The pressure on the water pump is 45psi. 

On stripping out the bathroom ready to fit a shower, i found a random in-line pressure switch. not sure if it was doing anything or whether or not it even works... Anyhow.. it was leaking. So i took it out and connected the pipes back up directly thinking..... My pump has a pressure switch in it so surely its not needed? 

Prior to this... i found my water pump kept running on after I had turned the taps off.... The water would trickle out of the pressure release valve on my calorifier for ages before it turned itself off. It was also turning on on its own so I figured I had must have a leak (which I found and have now rectified) 

 

Anyway... Long story short... 45psi Pump goes to calorifier now (directly, no in-line pressure switch) and water just continuously pisses out the pressure release valve. The Valve is a 4bar valve... which using google is 58psi? - So in theory.... we should be good? no? If i tap the red bit on the valve... on the calorifier, it stops. Until

I turn the tap back on again. 

 

Its a relatively new calorifier (just over a year old) - Could the valve be faulty already? or was the in line pressure switch actually doing something? Is my only option process of elimination? 

 

Am i being thick? i don't even know anymore. 

 

Edited November 11, 2021 by Dolly P.
45PSI*** MY BAD

[Alan de Enfield]

It is operating right on the edge - it could be that the spring in the valve is slightly weak and is opening at 50psi, or you could have a little bit of lime scale trapped in the valve.

 

Try unscrewing the valve and see if it flushes any limescale out, then close it again and see if it still leaks.

 

 

A 52psi pump is not normal for a boat system

Edited November 11, 2021 by Alan de Enfield

[Tracy D'arth]

If the valve has been allowed to dribble for an extended time it will likely have an eroded seat and be US.

 

52 PSI is very high for a boat calorifier in my opinion. If there is a screw on the pressure switch end you may be able to adjust it.

 

You removed the old switch, were there any wires on it?

[Dolly P.]

13 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

It is operating right on the edge - it could be that the spring in the valve is slightly weak and is opening at 50psi, or you could have a little bit of lime scale trapped in the valve.

 

Try unscrewing the valve and see if it flushes any limescale out, then close it again and see if it still leaks.

 

 

A 52psi pump is not normal for a boat system

My bad, 45psi pump**** but ill try that, taking it off & cleaning it. Thank you. 

[Tony Brooks]

Just now, Dolly P. said:

My bad, 45psi pump**** but ill try that, taking it off & cleaning it. Thank you. 

 

Before you do that give the PRV knob  a few twists with the pump on. The knob will turn, stiffen, loosen and click as you twist the knob. This jumps the valve up and down so it just might flush the seat clean. If that does not work then a new one won't cost much from a plumbers merchant but  get one set to the same pressure as the one you have. Possibly 3 to 3.5 bar but it should be marked on it.

[Dolly P.]

13 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

If the valve has been allowed to dribble for an extended time it will likely have an eroded seat and be US.

 

52 PSI is very high for a boat calorifier in my opinion. If there is a screw on the pressure switch end you may be able to adjust it.

 

You removed the old switch, were there any wires on it?

yah i'm an idiot sorry, its a 45psi pump. 

 

There was one wire, that connected to the live for the water pump. I fiddled with the twisty bit on top before i took it off and nothing happened... I have tried adjusting the switch with the screw but it was still happening.

[Alan de Enfield]

6 minutes ago, Dolly P. said:

My bad, 45psi pump**** but ill try that, taking it off & cleaning it. Thank you. 

 

You don't need to actually take it off (my bad explanation) just 'twiddle' the knob, allow the spring to lift, a few times (as explained by Tony).

[Tracy D'arth]

1 minute ago, Dolly P. said:

yah i'm an idiot sorry, its a 45psi pump. 

 

There was one wire, that connected to the live for the water pump. I fiddled with the twisty bit on top before i took it off and nothing happened... I have tried adjusting the switch with the screw but it was still happening.

Needs a new prv then. could try cleaning it but its easier and better to just change it. However if there is no accumulator and/or expansion vessel you will always get a dribbling valve as there is nowhere for expansion on heating to go.  Is there a one or two big cans connected to the plumbing anywhere and is there a non return valve in the cold feed to the bottom of the calorifier?

 

With only 1 wire it can't have been working, need 2 for a switch.

[Dolly P.]

14 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

Before you do that give the PRV knob  a few twists with the pump on. The knob will turn, stiffen, loosen and click as you twist the knob. This jumps the valve up and down so it just might flush the seat clean. If that does not work then a new one won't cost much from a plumbers merchant but  get one set to the same pressure as the one you have. Possibly 3 to 3.5 bar but it should be marked on it.

Tony ❤️ Hello! I've twiddled it and twisted it and stuff, every time i twiddle it etc it does all sorts of spluttery things and eventually, with a little tap on the top, it does stop. But the minute i turn the tap on, and then off again (in the kitchen) it just carries on pumping pumping and pissing out the bloody valve again. At the moment i just have the pump switched off and when i want to use it turn it on and off etc. But its not ideal. You reckon the valve could be broken after only a year and a half? 

[Dolly P.]

18 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

Needs a new prv then. could try cleaning it but its easier and better to just change it. However if there is no accumulator and/or expansion vessel you will always get a dribbling valve as there is nowhere for expansion on heating to go.  Is there a one or two big cans connected to the plumbing anywhere and is there a non return valve in the cold feed to the bottom of the calorifier?

 

With only 1 wire it can't have been working, need 2 for a switch.

That was my logic... But before i took it out it only intermittently continued to drizzle. and now it won't stop at all. I don't think ill ever become a plumber, all of this water pressure lark baffles me. There's no expansion tank or accumulator no, so i expect it to drizzle when it gets hot etc, but right now its like it doesn't even have a valve, just a hole on the side. guess ill try a new valve. wondering what other surprises ill find when i get round to taking out the kitchen and seeing the rest of the pipework. 

[doratheexplorer]

14 minutes ago, Dolly P. said:

Tony ❤️ Hello! I've twiddled it and twisted it and stuff, every time i twiddle it etc it does all sorts of spluttery things and eventually, with a little tap on the top, it does stop. But the minute i turn the tap on, and then off again (in the kitchen) it just carries on pumping pumping and pissing out the bloody valve again. At the moment i just have the pump switched off and when i want to use it turn it on and off etc. But its not ideal. You reckon the valve could be broken after only a year and a half? 

Yes, it could easily break in that time, especially with a 45psi pump.  That's fairly high.  My boat had a 20psi pump for years which was fine, but a little slow, so I upgraded to a 30psi and kept the 20psi as a spare.  It's worth having a calorifier valve which will take a fair bit higher pressure than the pump, as when the water in the calorifier gets hot the pressure increases, and your valve drips.  I hope it's dripping overboard and not into the boat somewhere?

 

If I were you, I'd get a new 4 bar valve AND a new 30psi pump (Jabsco or Whale, not Shurflo).  Then sell your 45psi pump.

[Tony Brooks]

37 minutes ago, Dolly P. said:

Tony ❤️ Hello! I've twiddled it and twisted it and stuff, every time i twiddle it etc it does all sorts of spluttery things and eventually, with a little tap on the top, it does stop. But the minute i turn the tap on, and then off again (in the kitchen) it just carries on pumping pumping and pissing out the bloody valve again. At the moment i just have the pump switched off and when i want to use it turn it on and off etc. But its not ideal. You reckon the valve could be broken after only a year and a half? 

 

I suspect that the PRV pressure and the pump cut out pressure are too close to each other so the pressure pulses caused by closing the tap  bounces up an down the pipes causing the valve to lift and if it has been dribbling for 1.5 years the seat may well be eroded.

 

The trouble is that you can't simply fit a higher pressure PRV because that poses a real risk of splitting the calorifier. The only thing you can do is reduce the pump cut out pressure. there is normally a screw in the middle of the pump end with the hose connections.

 

Try finding that pressure screw and turn the pressure down. I think that you need about 10psi difference between the PRV pressure and the pump cut out pressure to be sure.

 

If you have no accumulator or the air pressure in it is too high then that won't help and having no expansion vessel on the hot pipes will cause the PRV to vent whenever water expands with heating in the calorifier.

[Tracy D'arth]

PRVs are not meant to dribble when the water warms up, you need somewhere for the expansion to go or you will wreck a new valve in short order.  Get a new 4 bar valve.

 

Are there any vessels? Is there a non return valve ? Without answers to those questions it is impossible to advise you further.

[Alan de Enfield]

2 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

Are there any vessels?

 

 

59 minutes ago, Dolly P. said:

There's no expansion tank or accumulator no

 

[Dolly P.]

I still have my old 30psi pump - I replaced it because i thought it was broken (turned out it was just the wiring) so maybe ill just chuck that one back on and get a new valve. Thanks for all of your help. Feels like 2 steps forward 1 step back everytime i touch anything haha. 

 

Thank you though, 

[Dolly P.]

58 minutes ago, doratheexplorer said:

Yes, it could easily break in that time, especially with a 45psi pump.  That's fairly high.  My boat had a 20psi pump for years which was fine, but a little slow, so I upgraded to a 30psi and kept the 20psi as a spare.  It's worth having a calorifier valve which will take a fair bit higher pressure than the pump, as when the water in the calorifier gets hot the pressure increases, and your valve drips.  I hope it's dripping overboard and not into the boat somewhere?

 

If I were you, I'd get a new 4 bar valve AND a new 30psi pump (Jabsco or Whale, not Shurflo).  Then sell your 45psi pump.

 

9 minutes ago, Dolly P. said:

I still have my old 30psi pump - I replaced it because i thought it was broken (turned out it was just the wiring) so maybe ill just chuck that one back on and get a new valve. Thanks for all of your help. Feels like 2 steps forward 1 step back everytime i touch anything haha. 

 

Thank you though, 

Its down in the engine bay/bilge area, I know its not meant to be wet in there.... But all of the rain water goes in there etc. I have a bilge pump but it never gets it all out. So i guess it just makes a wet bilge wetter. Why not Surflo? That's what i have?  

[Alan de Enfield]

3 minutes ago, Dolly P. said:

Why not Surflo?

 

They are 'cheap & nasty' &  'disposable' (use for 12 months and it breaks)