Sailing the seas of Confusing Portable Generators

[Alan de Enfield]

21 minutes ago, truckcab79 said:

On the back to an extension lead then yes.  

 

No, No, No. You have much to learn about boats and boating.

 

A petrol generator should not (I'd say MUST not) be run on the 'back'. Take it ashore, take it down wind of your boat and then start it up.

 

From the BSS (Boat Safety Scheme guidance)

 

Boat Safety Scheme (BSS), made this blunt statement in light of the fatalities and injuries that have taken place on boats across the UK in recent years; devastating events that could have been avoided if the correct safety measures were taken.

Petrol generators can be seen as critical to some boaters wanting off-grid electrical power. Yet the fact that generators emit deadly carbon monoxide and need refuelling with highly flammable petrol means they must be never be installed in an enclosed cockpit area or engine space of a boat and must never be used on or close to the boat where exhaust fumes could enter the boat and where they can cause injuries or fatalities.

Graham Watts, BSS manager, Boat Safety Scheme says,

“On too many occasions we hear of fatalities or near fatalities on boats caused by the incorrect use of portable generators. The heart-breaking thing is that on most occasions the accident could have been avoided, and lives saved, if generators are used according to manufacturer’s instructions – in the open and away from the boat.”

The BSS says that if boaters want to use generators, these three basic bullet points should be followed: -

• Never install a portable generator permanently or make unauthorised modifications that are not supported by the manufacturer, or proprietary component supplier.

• Never run generators on the boat, or on the bank near to the boat’s doors, vents, windows and hatches. If you can smell exhaust fumes in the boat, it could mean the cabin is also filling with deadly carbon monoxide.
• Never refuel any generator anywhere aboard the boat; take it to the bank and ensure you are a safe distance from other boats and potential sources of ignition.

[truckcab79]

1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

No, No, No. You have much to learn about boats and boating.

 

A petrol generator should not (I'd say MUST not) be run on the 'back'. Take it ashore, take it down wind of your boat and then start it up.

 

From the BSS (Boat Safety Scheme guidance)

 

Boat Safety Scheme (BSS), made this blunt statement in light of the fatalities and injuries that have taken place on boats across the UK in recent years; devastating events that could have been avoided if the correct safety measures were taken.

Petrol generators can be seen as critical to some boaters wanting off-grid electrical power. Yet the fact that generators emit deadly carbon monoxide and need refuelling with highly flammable petrol means they must be never be installed in an enclosed cockpit area or engine space of a boat and must never be used on or close to the boat where exhaust fumes could enter the boat and where they can cause injuries or fatalities.

Graham Watts, BSS manager, Boat Safety Scheme says,

“On too many occasions we hear of fatalities or near fatalities on boats caused by the incorrect use of portable generators. The heart-breaking thing is that on most occasions the accident could have been avoided, and lives saved, if generators are used according to manufacturer’s instructions – in the open and away from the boat.”

The BSS says that if boaters want to use generators, these three basic bullet points should be followed: -

• Never install a portable generator permanently or make unauthorised modifications that are not supported by the manufacturer, or proprietary component supplier.

• Never run generators on the boat, or on the bank near to the boat’s doors, vents, windows and hatches. If you can smell exhaust fumes in the boat, it could mean the cabin is also filling with deadly carbon monoxide.
• Never refuel any generator anywhere aboard the boat; take it to the bank and ensure you are a safe distance from other boats and potential sources of ignition.

Typo.  That was meant to say on the ‘bank’.  😂. 
 

Cheers though. All common sense stuff.  You’d hope.!  

Edited August 31, 2023 by truckcab79

[Alan de Enfield]

Just now, truckcab79 said:

Typo.  That was meant to say on the ‘bank’.  😂. 

 

Good response, Quick back-peddle ?

[truckcab79]

17 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Good response, Quick back-peddle ?

No.  Absolutely not I promise.   I use two stroke and four stroke petrol gear all the time for work.  Well aware of the issues surrounding. Still amazes me what you see people do without thinking though.  Darwin’s natural selection and all that.  😂

[truckcab79]

5 hours ago, truckcab79 said:

 Darwin’s natural selection and all that.  😂

On a not at all similar subject my nephew brought his car over for me to show him how to change the discs and pads.  Took them off then realised that he’d bought the wrong parts so I had to put the old ones back on. 
 

‘Oh don’t worry.  Just leave them off’ was his advice.   🙄

[roland elsdon]

Yep just passed by a liverboard ( if they are lucky) on the cov.

Generator inside stern doors exhaust pointed through the gap.

trad stern.

wind blowing towards the exhaust pipe.

I could smell the exhaust from  centre of cut.

 

[DShK]

2 hours ago, roland elsdon said:

Yep just passed by a liverboard ( if they are lucky) on the cov.

Generator inside stern doors exhaust pointed through the gap.

trad stern.

wind blowing towards the exhaust pipe.

I could smell the exhaust from  centre of cut.

 

You see this waaay to often...

[Alan de Enfield]

3 hours ago, roland elsdon said:

Yep just passed by a liverboard ( if they are lucky) on the cov.

Generator inside stern doors exhaust pointed through the gap.

trad stern.

wind blowing towards the exhaust pipe.

I could smell the exhaust from  centre of cut.

 

 

You may well not see them again.

[MtB]

11 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

You may well not see them again.

 

It's a curious thing though. Given how dangerous it is to run the genny on the boat, where are all the deaths?

 

I can think of one, where that plumber bod bodged up a copper exhaust pipe extension onto a portable genny.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 1, 2023 by MtB

[Alan de Enfield]

9 hours ago, MtB said:

 

It's a curious thing though. Given how dangerous it is to run the genny on the boat, where are all the deaths?

 

I can think of one, where that plumber bod bodged up a copper exhaust pipe.

 

 

 

There are one or two I remember reading about - here is an MAIB report, but it wasn;t a geny, it was running the (petrol) engine whilst moored up

 

Flyer to MAIB Report 1/2023 - Emma Louise - Very Serious Marine Casualty (publishing.service.gov.uk)

 

And another MAIB report on a boat on the Norfolk Broards

 

MAIB Safety Bulletin 2/2016 - Love for Lydia (publishing.service.gov.uk)

 

 

Resumably the BSS have logged sufficient to be worried enough to publish their warnings on use of generators (posted above).

 

They do say .........................

 

Boat Safety Scheme (BSS), made this blunt statement in light of the fatalities and injuries that have taken place on boats across the UK in recent years; devastating events that could have been avoided if the correct safety measures were taken.

[Alan de Enfield]

 

 

 

Not inland waterways, but I'm sure an example of what some Inland waterways boaters will do .................

 

 

A safety bulletin has been issued to warn boat owners about the dangers of carbon monoxide poisoning following two deaths in North Yorkshire.

Two fishermen died in their bunks on board the 9.95m scallop-dredger Eshcol while staying overnight in Whitby, North Yorkshire on 15 January 2014.

Initial findings from the Marine Accident Investigation Branch (MAIB) indicate that the men were poisoned by carbon monoxide.

Before going to bed, the skipper (aged 26) and the crewman (aged 21) had lit the grill of a butane gas cooker fitted in the wheelhouse in order to warm both the wheelhouse and the adjacent sleeping area.

 

When they were not seen as expected the following morning, crewmen from fishing vessels tied up close by forced open the wheelhouse door.

The gas grill was still lit and the wheelhouse was full of fumes; the two men were dead in their bunks.

[truckcab79]

16 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

 

Not inland waterways, but I'm sure an example of what some Inland waterways boaters will do .................

 

 

A safety bulletin has been issued to warn boat owners about the dangers of carbon monoxide poisoning following two deaths in North Yorkshire.

Two fishermen died in their bunks on board the 9.95m scallop-dredger Eshcol while staying overnight in Whitby, North Yorkshire on 15 January 2014.

Initial findings from the Marine Accident Investigation Branch (MAIB) indicate that the men were poisoned by carbon monoxide.

Before going to bed, the skipper (aged 26) and the crewman (aged 21) had lit the grill of a butane gas cooker fitted in the wheelhouse in order to warm both the wheelhouse and the adjacent sleeping area.

 

When they were not seen as expected the following morning, crewmen from fishing vessels tied up close by forced open the wheelhouse door.

The gas grill was still lit and the wheelhouse was full of fumes; the two men were dead in their bunks.

Like the dad who killed his daughter by taking the still-lit barbecue into the tent porch.  Tragic but there’s no accounting for stupid.  

[booke23]

10 hours ago, MtB said:

 

It's a curious thing though. Given how dangerous it is to run the genny on the boat, where are all the deaths?

 

I can think of one, where that plumber bod bodged up a copper exhaust pipe extension onto a portable genny.

 

True. Maybe the BSS requirement to have a CO alarm is saving lives.

[MtB]

5 minutes ago, booke23 said:

 

True. Maybe the BSS requirement to have a CO alarm is saving lives.

 

Given gennys have been around since the 1970s, remind me when the BSS made CO detectors mandatory? 

 

 

[booke23]

12 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

Given gennys have been around since the 1970s, remind me when the BSS made CO detectors mandatory? 

 

 

 

Granted, it is a relatively recent requirement. However general stupidity and lack of common was less common in the 1970's

[MtB]

6 minutes ago, booke23 said:

 

Granted, it is a relatively recent requirement. However general stupidity and lack of common was less common in the 1970's

 

What about in the 80s, 90s, 00s, 10s? Where are all the generator deaths in those decades? 

 

Could it possibly be such deaths are actually very rare and running a genny on one's boat is not the big risk it is portrayed as?

 

 

[booke23]

3 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

What about in the 80s, 90s, 00s, 10s? Where are all the generator deaths in those decades? 

 

Could it possibly be such deaths are actually very rare and running a genny on one's boat is not the big risk it is portrayed as?

 

 

 

🤣

[DShK]

6 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

What about in the 80s, 90s, 00s, 10s? Where are all the generator deaths in those decades? 

 

Could it possibly be such deaths are actually very rare and running a genny on one's boat is not the big risk it is portrayed as?

 

 

There's a forum member who attributes their mobility issues to doing such a thing. It doesn't have to kill you, and not all deaths are going to be public

[Alan de Enfield]

According to the Government figures there have been 16 fatalities in the last 20 years and a greater number of 'accidents not resulting in death' due to Co poisoning on boats..

[magnetman]

CO doesn't always kill but it can do bad things which cause problems later. 

 

Even if it is headaches at the time the mechanism of the CO acting on the blood seems a little bit rude.

 

 

https://oem.bmj.com/content/59/10/708

[Alan de Enfield]

13 minutes ago, magnetman said:

CO doesn't always kill but it can do bad things which cause problems later. 

 

Even if it is headaches at the time the mechanism of the CO acting on the blood seems a little bit rude.

 

 

 

[MtB]

24 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

According to the Government figures there have been 16 fatalities in the last 20 years and a greater number of 'accidents not resulting in death' due to Co poisoning on boats..

 

And the proportion associated with portable generators (as opposed to solid fuel stoves, gas appliances and the main boat engine?? 

 

Whenever the stats don't support a case, similiar but different stats tend to get quoted I'm sure you'll agree. 

 

 

 

 

Drilling down through all the obfuscation can be very illuminating. I'm quite willing to accept gennies are a serious problem, but no-one ever seems able to produce any genuine evidence. 

 

 

[Alan de Enfield]

3 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

And the proportion associated with portable generators (as opposed to solid fuel stoves, gas appliances and the main boat engine?? 

 

Whenever the stats don't support a case, similiar but different stats tend to get quoted I'm sure you'll agree. 

 

 

 

 

Drilling down through all the obfuscation can be very illuminating. I'm quite willing to accept gennies are a serious problem, but no-one ever seems able to produce any genuine evidence. 

 

 

 

Agreed.

I'm not sure that the stats for Co deaths, by 'location' (House, boat, factory etc) let alone broken down by boat type (leisure, commercial and inland or coastal) and then by source (Engine, Genny, SF stove etc) are readily available.

 

The BSS claim to record all boat incidents (inc coastal) and apparently get copies of all the MAIB investigations.

 

If you really wanted to know, maybe a FoI request would give you the answers you want.

 

If the use of Co alarms and, telling folks on a forum of the inherent dangers of Co can save just one life I think it is a good thing and should not be belittled.

[MtB]

25 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

If the use of Co alarms and, telling folks on a forum of the inherent dangers of Co can save just one life I think it is a good thing and should not be belittled.

 

Yes indeed. And its sobering to read the MAIB reports you linked to, and to consider a WORKING carbon monoxide alarm would probably have saved several lives. 

 

Your links however, are to cases where the boat engine did the damage not a generator, and another report I read of CO deaths on a boat turned out to be their cooker being used for space heating. In 50 years of portable gennys being available I've only encountered one case of one killing the user so far, and their CO alarm had flat batteries IIRC.

 

 

[booke23]

31 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

If the use of Co alarms and, telling folks on a forum of the inherent dangers of Co can save just one life I think it is a good thing and should not be belittled.

 

The wisest words I've read for some time on this forum.