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robtheplod

Pickup new boat ... hitlist of checks/things to do asap..

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5 minutes ago, LadyG said:

I think people tend to look on the BSC examination as something to be feared, to be "passed at all costs", imho it an opportunity for an objective examination. DAMHIK.

The Boat Safety requirements are somewhat quirky, but I intend to live in a safe environment and I trust my neighbours do too ?

PS I am currently making modifications, and a new Cert should be forthcoming when the work is done. This is belt and braces stuff,  any work done on the boat will be done with this in mind.

 

I think it very much depends on ones own abilities to :

1) Understand what the BSS requires, &

2) The ability to do your own maintenance / repairs.

3) To apply the standards you want and would hope to get if you were on someone else's boat.

 

My boat systems are well in excess of the BSS requirements, so apart from being aggrieved at paying £150 for a certificate after spending 15 minutes in the saloon and not examining the boat, I was not in any way concerned about the safety aspects of the boat, either from the point of view of 3rd party safety (ala BSS) or our own safety aboard (not covered by the BSS)

 

12 minutes ago, LadyG said:

..............but I intend to live in a safe environment

In which case the BSS offers you nothing. The BSS is about safety of 3rd parties 'near the boat', not the safety of those on the boat - hence things like ventilation simply being "advisory" rather than  "mandatory". You can kill yourself but you are not allowed to kill anyone walking past your boat.

 

From the BSS website :

 

 

The Purpose of the BSS

The BSS is in place to help minimise the risks to all visitors to the waterways and the waterways' workforce, and to help protect adjacent property, related to the condition, equipment and use of boats. The BSS is also used to minimise the risk of avoidable pollution from boats. (Note - The Scheme's work does not relate to the fixed infrastructure and plant of the waterways).

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1 hour ago, robtheplod said:

is the survey likely to look dimly on this re BSS compliance?

 

There is no such thing as a surevey "looking dimly" on something. A survey is an inspection and the survey report just tells you in writing what was seen and found. It carries no official weight or authority regarding BSS compliance.

 

If something is seen that should fail the next BSS it ought to tell you but you cannot rely on even this as a lot of BSS is the opinion of the BSS inspector. 

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This thread has been helpful to me too.  Our survey is being done on the 15th August. Had two boats before but its been a helpful reminder of some of the smaller things to get prepared.

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11 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

There is no such thing as a surevey "looking dimly" on something. A survey is an inspection and the survey report just tells you in writing what was seen and found. It carries no official weight or authority regarding BSS compliance.

 

If something is seen that should fail the next BSS it ought to tell you but you cannot rely on even this as a lot of BSS is the opinion of the BSS inspector. 

 

Maybe incorrectly, I assumed that when the OP used the term 'survey' he actually meant BSS Examination (yes, I know, totally different thing !!!) as he said that the BSSC should be issued following the survey.

 

You are correct tho' - something cannot be viewed 'dimly' it either passes or fails the requirements.

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5 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Maybe incorrectly, I assumed that when the OP used the term 'survey' he actually meant BSS Examination

 

I doubt it...

 

Tha OP:

 

"If everything goes well and the boat we're buying gets a decent full pre-purchase survey come back we will be the proud owners of a 58ft Semi-Trad!"

 

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41 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

I think it very much depends on ones own abilities to :

1) Understand what the BSS requires, &

2) The ability to do your own maintenance / repairs.

3) To apply the standards you want and would hope to get if you were on someone else's boat.

 

My boat systems are well in excess of the BSS requirements, so apart from being aggrieved at paying £150 for a certificate after spending 15 minutes in the saloon and not examining the boat, I was not in any way concerned about the safety aspects of the boat, either from the point of view of 3rd party safety (ala BSS) or our own safety aboard (not covered by the BSS)

 

In which case the BSS offers you nothing. The BSS is about safety of 3rd parties 'near the boat', not the safety of those on the boat - hence things like ventilation simply being "advisory" rather than  "mandatory". You can kill yourself but you are not allowed to kill anyone walking past your boat.

 

From the BSS website :

 

 

The Purpose of the BSS

The BSS is in place to help minimise the risks to all visitors to the waterways and the waterways' workforce, and to help protect adjacent property, related to the condition, equipment and use of boats. The BSS is also used to minimise the risk of avoidable pollution from boats. (Note - The Scheme's work does not relate to the fixed infrastructure and plant of the waterways).

I agree with all you are saying.

However, I'm not intending to hand over £150 in exchange for a cup of tea and fifteen minutes of his time.   What I am doing, and there is nothing to stop anyone else doing it, is to find a co-operative, well qualified and experienced inspector, and  persuade him to examine the boat, thoroughly. I think that most folks can prepare the boat themselves, maybe with some input from others, to be reasonably confident that it will pass first time without advisories.

The recent revision, requiring one or more CO monitors, indicates a shift in thinking, something to do with common sense, but if these CO monitors cost eg $500 each, not £12, I am pretty sure it would not be a requirement. There are other alarms available, , eg gas eg automatic engine fire extinguishers. You could argue these alams/extinguishers safeguard canal users more than any number of CO monitors. 

Edited by LadyG

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59 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

My boat systems are well in excess of the BSS requirements, so apart from being aggrieved at paying £150 for a certificate after spending 15 minutes in the saloon and not examining the boat, I was not in any way concerned about the safety aspects of the boat, either from the point of view of 3rd party safety (ala BSS) or our own safety aboard (not covered by the BSS)

 

 

I think your experience here is quite unusual and I'd simply have refused to pay him and got someone else in to do a proper inspection. If you felt aggrieved then I'm not sure why you'd pay someone coming onto your boat and not doing his job?

 

The last BSS inspection I had on my boat about a year ago lasted almost 2 hours and the guy was very thorough. Previous inspections have all been at least 90 mins IIRC.

Edited by blackrose

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4 minutes ago, blackrose said:

I think your experience here is quite unusual and I'd simply have refused to pay him and got someone else

I must find all of the 'bad uns' then.

 

The last BSS was issued with fire extinguishers 10 years out of 'use by date' (different examiner - now retired)

 

A few years ago I had the BSS fail because I did not have an RCD fitted (it is only advisory) I was told - you have paid me, you can either fit one and get a pass, or get someone else to do it and pay again' (this was another different examiner now retired).

 

There is a regular BSS examiner who comes to out marina (yet another 'name') who is not qualified to do the gas checks on Liveaboards, but he tells them to go out shopping for the day and the 'certificate will be onboard when you return'. If they are not on board then he cannot ask them 'Are you a liveaboard ?' (as required in the advice to examiners)

 

I have made numerous reports to the BSS office to be told "we will investigate and increase training if found to be required - No we will not inform you of any outcome to our investigations"

 

I'm fed up banging my head on a brick wall so just view the £150 fee as an 'access fee' to be made before I am allowed to apply for a licence.

 

Not for much longer as we will be moving back to Sea - NO LICENCE and NO BSS fees to pay.

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I recent!y had my BSS done by the surveyor who did the survey 4 years ago when we bought the boat. I arranged it by email and he said he could only do it if we're not liveaboards.

 

HIs price for doing the survey 4 years ago included a new BSS so probably the OP has a similar deal.

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Thanks for all the replies so far, really helpful and much appreciated!

 

We're getting close to the survey now (next Monday) and we hope to be there to take another look around once the surveyor has done his bit, and to have a face to face to get his views on it. I have a few queries which I wonder if anyone can help?

 

After the surveyor goes around the hull scraping bits to bare metal, does this get dabbed over with blacking?  Not sure what they generally do...  We are buying from a boat yard rather than private so maybe they can help here...

 

I didn't notice a Galvanic Isolator on the boat and as she'll be hooked up a fair bit to start with I feel I need to sort this - hate for her to dissolve away having spent the money! I see some that simply plug 'inline' with the 16amp lead with pigtails and these seem simpler to implement immediately, or would the panel recommend any specific ones that go on the boat?  Does one type win above another, or one make?  As an aside it would be good if these were built into the shoreline power boxes on the jetty!

 

I've never researched or learnt so much than in the last few months - I'm trying to avoid making any silly mistakes so if anything I say/do screams out as idiotic please let me know!

 

thanks!!!!

 

 

Edited by robtheplod

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21 minutes ago, robtheplod said:

We are buying from a boat yard rather than private so maybe they can help here...

Does the boatyard OWN the boat, or, are they simply acting as broker on behalf of a private owner ?

 

Their legal standing and responsibilities to you (the buyer) are VERY different.

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1 minute ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Does the boatyard OWN the boat, or, are they simply acting as broker on behalf of a private owner ?

 

Their legal standing and responsibilities to you (the buyer) are VERY different.

Yes, the boatyard are the owners. I have all that in documentation.

Edited by robtheplod

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30 minutes ago, robtheplod said:

Yes, the boatyard are the owners. I have all that in documentation.

Well that is good news (and a very rare admission)

 

Unlike buying from a private buyer, you have full legal protection and can return if for a full refund, or they can repair it - it is their choice (legally period is not stated, but is generally accepted as up to 6 months) if you find a fault with it, or it is not 'fit for purpose'.

 

They are legally obliged to disclose any, and every, 'fault', (without you asking) and anything you subsequently find that was not divulged is to be repaired / replaced at their cost.

 

The boat must be FULLY 'Fit For Purpose'.

 

Have a read of this :

 

https://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/advice/the-second-hand-car-i-bought-has-a-problem-what-are-my-rights

Edited by Alan de Enfield

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@robtheplod

When my boat was surveyed the surveyor brought a pot of blacking with him and covered over the scrapes. I expect it varies from one surveyor to another.

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16 minutes ago, Lily Rose said:

@robtheplod

When my boat was surveyed the surveyor brought a pot of blacking with him and covered over the scrapes. I expect it varies from one surveyor to another.

 

Likewise.

 

If is an ex-shareboat, it is unlikely to have a GI as it wouldn't have spent much time on its home mooring.

 

The Safeshore GI's are plug and play, but not particularly well spaced to cope with a large earth fault. However they do give you a visual indication that they have failed.

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21 minutes ago, Lily Rose said:

@robtheplod

When my boat was surveyed the surveyor brought a pot of blacking with him and covered over the scrapes. I expect it varies from one surveyor to another.

 

I wonder how that works when the boat is '2-pack epoxy' 'blacked'.

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57 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Well that is good news (and a very rare admission)

 

Unlike buying from a private buyer, you have full legal protection and can return if for a full refund, or they can repair it - it is their choice (legally period is not stated, but is generally accepted as up to 6 months) if you find a fault with it, or it is not 'fit for purpose'.

 

They are legally obliged to disclose any, and every, 'fault', (without you asking) and anything you subsequently find that was not divulged is to be repaired / replaced at their cost.

 

The boat must be FULLY 'Fit For Purpose'.

 

Have a read of this :

 

https://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/advice/the-second-hand-car-i-bought-has-a-problem-what-are-my-rights

Thanks for this. The yard said anything that comes up in the survey that impacts on BSS or anything major (non cosmetic) will be sorted by them. I've already picked up on the gas locker and no horn and they are making a list....  

 

thanks for all the info, most useful, hopefully my surveyor has a pot!

Edited by robtheplod

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1 minute ago, robtheplod said:

 

 

thanks for all the info, most useful, hopefully my surveyor has a pot!

You could always ask him/her.

 

I asked mine beforehand. Just asking the question might prompt him/her to bring one and even if not, if enough people ask then he/she may start to do so in future.

 

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2 minutes ago, Lily Rose said:

You could always ask him/her.

 

I asked mine beforehand. Just asking the question might prompt him/her to bring one and even if not, if enough people ask then he/she may start to do so in future.

 

thanks, will do. Trying not to ask silly questions so encouraged so far!  :)

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49 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

I wonder how that works when the boat is '2-pack epoxy' 'blacked'.

 

Mine was. The surveyor realised this (for some strange reason the seller failed to msntion in the sales pitch thst the boat had been treated with Zinga and 2 packed from new) when he ground the first bit off, the size of a 10p piece. He changed his ultrasound equipment to test the thickness over the 2 pack and then painted over the ground off bit with ordinary blacking.

 

5 years later, when the boat was out of the water for reblacking, the patch of ordinary blacking was still visible and still sound.

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2 minutes ago, cuthound said:

5 years later, when the boat was out of the water for reblacking, the patch of ordinary blacking was still visible and still sound.

Speaks volumes.

 

Why spend £5k (?) for epoxy then ?

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5 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Probably perfectly well. If the OP waits 40 years, he will probably find out!

I'm not sure if you misunderstood the question, or I am misunderstanding the answer.

 

The question was :

 

Epoxy painted boat.

Surveyor scrapes off 200 'patches' to thickness test.

How can he 'make good' with epoxy without all the required prep ?

 

 

Cuthound explained that his surveyor just dabbed standard blacking on it to 'patch-up'.

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