Pickup new boat ... hitlist of checks/things to do asap..

[MtB]

1 minute ago, Alan de Enfield said:

I'm not sure if you misunderstood the question, or I am misunderstanding the answer.

 

The question was :

 

Epoxy painted boat.

Surveyor scrapes off 200 'patches' to thickness test.

How can he 'make good' with epoxy without all the required prep ?

 

 

Cuthound explained that his surveyor just dabbed standard blacking on it to 'patch-up'.

 

 

And my answer can be rephrased as "it doesn't matter, the boat will carry on floating for 40 years regardless". Pragmatism roolz OK.

 

 

 

 

 

 

P.S. 200 patches???? Usually more like 8. 

 

 

[cuthound]

1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Speaks volumes.

 

Why spend £5k (?) for epoxy then ?

 

Because the normal blacking was in a small patch almost directly above the base plate, so protected from diesel spills on the waterline and physical damage by the sacrificial edge.

 

After 12 years the epoxy was still mainly intact, especially along the waterline. The damaged area were mainly on the stem post and the bends leading up to it.

 

That wouldn't be the case for 12 year old or even 5 year old normal blacking.

 

 

 

21 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

P.S. 200 patches???? Usually more like 8. 

 

Only the one in my case. The survey then measured the thickness of the unpainted baseplate before changing his equipment to one capable of measuring the steel thickness through the epoxy.

Edited August 16, 2019 by cuthound
To add spaces between merged posts

[Alan de Enfield]

37 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

P.S. 200 patches???? Usually more like 8. 

You have been robbed !!!

Even on a 45 footer approx. 50 'scrapes' on each side and another 40+ on the base plate.

 

 

Edited August 16, 2019 by Alan de Enfield

[robtheplod]

Survey today!  We'll be going over to have another detailed look around boat and also chat to surveyor - any nuggets of advice about things I should be discussing with surveyor?  Thanks and wish us luck!

[cuthound]

Ask if he has any concerns about the boat.

 

If you are unsure how anything works, then ask him to show you how to operate them.

 

You won't remember everything he says so take notes and photos.

[robtheplod]

6 hours ago, cuthound said:

Ask if he has any concerns about the boat.

 

If you are unsure how anything works, then ask him to show you how to operate them.

 

You won't remember everything he says so take notes and photos.

excellent, thanks. Visited today during the survey and I think plenty has come up to go back to the boat yard with... waiting for the written report. Will update you all once I have the report - hopefully you can all advise when I do this?!

[cuthound]

30 minutes ago, robtheplod said:

excellent, thanks. Visited today during the survey and I think plenty has come up to go back to the boat yard with... waiting for the written report. Will update you all once I have the report - hopefully you can all advise when I do this?!

 

Hopefully the surveyor will come up with enough for you to negotiate a price reduction at least equal to the cost of docking and the surveyors fees.

 

The only negative thing my surveyor found was that the charger part of the Victron Combi didnt work.

 

I renegotiated the agreed price down by £2k and was very pleasantly surprised to find the charger worked when i got the boat to its mooring. The fault must have been a faulty shoreline bollard at the dry dock. ? 

[ditchcrawler]

24 minutes ago, cuthound said:

 

Hopefully the surveyor will come up with enough for you to negotiate a price reduction at least equal to the cost of docking and the surveyors fees.

 

The only negative thing my surveyor found was that the charger part of the Victron Combi didnt work.

 

I renegotiated the agreed price down by £2k and was very pleasantly surprised to find the charger worked when i got the boat to its mooring. The fault must have been a faulty shoreline bollard at the dry dock. ? 

You of course gave him back his £2K

[cuthound]

12 hours ago, ditchcrawler said:

You of course gave him back his £2K

 

? The surveyor found a problem and gave a suggested order if cost to repair/replace.

 

I copied his report to the broker and suggested he show it to the seller And asked if the seller would repair or replace. The seller came back with a counter offer to reduce the price, which i accepted.

[robtheplod]

Whilst waiting for the surveyors report can I ask the question about engine hours..... the Beta Marine panel with the LCD display is blank on this boat we're looking at (even with engine running), so a problem here.... this is a bit frustrating as i'd use this to plan services etc, but how much of a biggy is this and does the panel think this could be a repairable item?

 

thanks!!

[Athy]

3 hours ago, robtheplod said:

 how much of a biggy is this?

 

thanks!!

A very smally. I've now owned four narrowboats and none of them has had an engine-hours counter. None of the engines has blown up or ground to a halt....yet.

[robtheplod]

7 minutes ago, Athy said:

A very smally. I've now owned four narrowboats and none of them has had an engine-hours counter. None of the engines has blown up or ground to a halt....yet.

good to hear, thanks!!  Guess re service intervals etc you just tot up what you think you've done..

[ditchcrawler]

30 minutes ago, robtheplod said:

good to hear, thanks!!  Guess re service intervals etc you just tot up what you think you've done..

Those counters are well known for failing as they are effected by the damp. You could always fit a second counter that is powered up when the "ignition" switch is turned on. Some people have got them working by drying them out

[TheBiscuits]

5 hours ago, robtheplod said:

Whilst waiting for the surveyors report can I ask the question about engine hours..... the Beta Marine panel with the LCD display is blank on this boat we're looking at (even with engine running), so a problem here.... this is a bit frustrating as i'd use this to plan services etc, but how much of a biggy is this and does the panel think this could be a repairable item?

 

thanks!!

Check the big harness multiplug first ... they are notorious for bad connections and can give all sorts of odd symptoms. 

 

Failing that, try drying out the control panel as Brian suggests.

 

If they don't work, alternate hour counters are about a tenner!

[Rob-M]

I make a note of when I run the engine in the cruise log.

[ditchcrawler]

37 minutes ago, Rob-M said:

I make a note of when I run the engine in the cruise log.

I am not that disciplined 

43 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

 

 

If they don't work, alternate hour counters are about a tenner!

https://www.ebay.co.uk/c/15012869126   

 

Edited August 21, 2019 by ditchcrawler

[matty40s]

On 19/08/2019 at 19:13, robtheplod said:

excellent, thanks. Visited today during the survey and I think plenty has come up to go back to the boat yard with... waiting for the written report. Will update you all once I have the report - hopefully you can all advise when I do this?!

Don't forget, the surveyor may have many Recommendations on your survey, these do not have to be sorted by the seller, or could be part of a price negotiation.

The only thing the seller SHOULD be fixing are BSS fail items, items that will lead to an insurance company refusing fully comp insurance......think gas, electric , plating, or items that are vital for the boat to operate....think engine, gearbox, stern gear.

 

Lots of surveyors fill their surveys with recommendations to repaint the gas locker/engine bay/bilge,  weld on extra side plate anodes, service the webersplattchero, touch up the roof paint, etc, these are standard maintenance items and are sometimes alarming to a new buyer who thinks everything on the list should be done at sellers expense before the boat can be paid for or taken away.

Edited August 21, 2019 by matty40s

[Rob-M]

As the boat is owned by the brokerage doesn't it depend on how they are advertising it as to what they need to rectify...?

[matty40s]

Just now, Rob-M said:

As the boat is owned by the brokerage doesn't it depend on how they are advertising it as to what they need to rectify...?

The trick is finding out IF the brokerage actually own it, most brokerages dont own boats, they broker them for the owners.

[robtheplod]

25 minutes ago, matty40s said:

The trick is finding out IF the brokerage actually own it, most brokerages dont own boats, they broker them for the owners.

They do own it and have provided proof.

 

One thing that looks like may be in question is the boat was advertised as having being blacked and new anodes in 2019 and my surveyor questioned this, saying it needs blacking and new anodes verbally after his survey - we'll see what he puts in the report...  can it need doing again in such as short timescale, or is this suspect (as I assume)…..?

[ditchcrawler]

23 minutes ago, robtheplod said:

They do own it and have provided proof.

 

One thing that looks like may be in question is the boat was advertised as having being blacked and new anodes in 2019 and my surveyor questioned this, saying it needs blacking and new anodes verbally after his survey - we'll see what he puts in the report...  can it need doing again in such as short timescale, or is this suspect (as I assume)…..?

Well we are 8 months into 2019 now, where has it been all year?

[matty40s]

24 minutes ago, robtheplod said:

They do own it and have provided proof.

 

One thing that looks like may be in question is the boat was advertised as having being blacked and new anodes in 2019 and my surveyor questioned this, saying it needs blacking and new anodes verbally after his survey - we'll see what he puts in the report...  can it need doing again in such as short timescale, or is this suspect (as I assume)…..?

It might not have been done(sellers to the brokers lied), it may have been done, but not very well, or it may have been subject to a diesel spill in the marina which has stripped the waterline. Most surveyors are also now recommending at least 2 central side anodes along with the traditional 2 front and 2 back, this appears to be a directive from the annual insurance companies surveyor conference which has noted an increase in galvanic corrosion issues in boats , especially down the sides.

[robtheplod]

58 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

Well we are 8 months into 2019 now, where has it been all year?

in the marina since May...

[robtheplod]

OK, got the survey back - see below for main points (its littered with painting etc but this is probably on every report so have excluded this). Its not too bad that I can see, and the hull came out fine. I'm looking for items to go to the seller with - REC1 & 2 as I understand should definately be done before sale (to allow BSS etc). I'm sceptical this boat has had blacking/new anodes this year given the wear of the anodes?  its been sat in a Marina since May with no shoreline connection. What is the panels advice with regards to best way to approach this given your experiences?

 

If I can get blacking/anodes done then could pay for stern tube bearings and might as well do bottom rudder bearing as one out of water job?

In thinking the Bow thruster (Vetus 55) probably isn't working due to battery but there's always the chance its not that (when you try it, the panel beeps several times at you).

 

This is a £54k boat for a baseline if that helps?

 

REC 1 (Items that should be addressed which may affect the vessel’s insurability or watertight integrity)

Apply a swan’s neck in both of the bilge pump outlet hoses so that they rise to 10” above the waterline.

REC 2 (Items that in the surveyor’s interpretation of the current checking procedures may be required to pass the current BSS examination for private leisure vessels with no advisories)

5.c.    Seal the top of the shoreline connection.
7.a.    Replace the gas hose tail in the locker.
7.b.    Rectify the gas leak.
8.a.    Protect the woodwork behind the Webasto exhaust from the heat of the silencer.
         Secure the fuel filter.
8.b.   Replace the lower flue collar.

REC 3 (Items that should be addressed which affect the safe or normal use of the vessel or a particular system)

Bow thruster not working / poor bow thruster battery

REC 4 (Items that should be addressed as soon as is practically possible to prevent the possibility of significant future problems arising)

Replace Anodes (75% worn). Add 2 x extra midships low profile anodes also
Replace the stern tube bearing at the next blacking.

REC 5 (General maintenance items)

Requires Blacking
Replace the bottom rudder bearing

 

Thanks for reading!

[matty40s]

I would insist on 1 and 2, a new battery for bowthruster(or cash off in lieu), and blacking, anodes. No way would anodes be 75% worn in a few months. The brokerage is selling, so they are misrepresenting the sale if they insist the blacking and anodes have been done this year.