Consultation on exhaust emissions on inland waterways

[MtB]

11 minutes ago, Keeping Up said:

There are 30000 boats on the canal and probably 29000 or more will give up boating, including myself, and the canals will turn into festering weed-filled muddy ditches except in London where it will be a linear weed-filled muddy park for static homes. Nobody will visit the towpaths, ever, and CRT will crow about how ecologically friendly they are. Thank God I'll be dead by then (I hope)

 

I think Peter is right in the long term, CRT or someone WILL ban diesels and solid fuel from the cut and obviously installation of charging points will not happen due to the massive cost. So yes this will drive off the cut the less well off and the less committed and boating will return to being a minority interest. We will take a step back to the days when boating is technical challenge full of hurdles to overcome. I quite welcome this as most of the problem boaters out on the cut are not actually that interested in boating. 

 

 

[peterboat]

8 hours ago, StephenA said:

 

So basically you can't actually give reasonable answers to sensible questions. You just get on your high horse and start pontificating.

Because people are just asking stupid questions or trying to score points like your self, the boat works for me that's all that masters. 

[frangar]

1 hour ago, peterboat said:

Because people are just asking stupid questions or trying to score points like your self, the boat works for me that's all that masters. 

Yes but you are selling it as suitable for all boats.....and it clearly isn’t 

[StephenA]

2 hours ago, peterboat said:

Because people are just asking stupid questions or trying to score points like your self, the boat works for me that's all that masters. 

Not trying to score points for myself. You keep stating that because your chosen propulsion method works for your limited boating needs that it is basically the solution for anyone.  I asked a question about how solar would work for a perfectly normal boating situation and my question, like others put to you, was just ignored.  It's obvious that a few KWh of solar cells is not going to keep a canal boat on the move day in day out unless the number of hours cruising is severely restricted.

 

Another question - how well do you think your boat would handle runs such as Cromwell to Torksey, or Cromwell to Keadby?

[Alan de Enfield]

3 minutes ago, StephenA said:

Another question - how well do you think your boat would handle runs such as Cromwell to Torksey, or Cromwell to Keadby?

Probably it would do quite well.

 

Or, maybe a 'better question'

"how well do you think your boat would handle runs such as Torksey to Cromwell or Keadby to Cromwell  with a bit of 'fresh' in the river ?"

[Keeping Up]

14 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

I think Peter is right in the long term, CRT or someone WILL ban diesels and solid fuel from the cut and obviously installation of charging points will not happen due to the massive cost. So yes this will drive off the cut the less well off and the less committed and boating will return to being a minority interest. We will take a step back to the days when boating is technical challenge full of hurdles to overcome. I quite welcome this as most of the problem boaters out on the cut are not actually that interested in boating. 

 

 

I don't think that a desire to see the canals used as a means of transport demonstrates a lack of commitment. I would be most interested to hear of any practical solution to the question of how to travel significant distances by boat in the absence of internal combustion engines or electrical charging points; or of how to remain warm in winter in the absence of the ability to burn either diesel or solid fuel.

[frangar]

5 minutes ago, Keeping Up said:

I don't think that a desire to see the canals used as a means of transport demonstrates a lack of commitment. I would be most interested to hear of any practical solution to the question of how to travel significant distances by boat in the absence of internal combustion engines or electrical charging points; or of how to remain warm in winter in the absence of the ability to burn either diesel or solid fuel.

The same will happen with road transportation too....HGV’s don’t work well under battery power talking to manufacturers at this years CV show...almost ok for urban vans but useless for trunking and international work. Remember trucks have night heaters too and a lot of drivers tramp. 

[peterboat]

5 hours ago, frangar said:

Yes but you are selling it as suitable for all boats.....and it clearly isn’t 

 

4 hours ago, StephenA said:

Not trying to score points for myself. You keep stating that because your chosen propulsion method works for your limited boating needs that it is basically the solution for anyone.  I asked a question about how solar would work for a perfectly normal boating situation and my question, like others put to you, was just ignored.  It's obvious that a few KWh of solar cells is not going to keep a canal boat on the move day in day out unless the number of hours cruising is severely restricted.

 

Another question - how well do you think your boat would handle runs such as Cromwell to Torksey, or Cromwell to Keadby?

 

4 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Probably it would do quite well.

 

Or, maybe a 'better question'

"how well do you think your boat would handle runs such as Torksey to Cromwell or Keadby to Cromwell  with a bit of 'fresh' in the river ?"

 

22 minutes ago, Keeping Up said:

I don't think that a desire to see the canals used as a means of transport demonstrates a lack of commitment. I would be most interested to hear of any practical solution to the question of how to travel significant distances by boat in the absence of internal combustion engines or electrical charging points; or of how to remain warm in winter in the absence of the ability to burn either diesel or solid fuel.

 

13 minutes ago, frangar said:

The same will happen with road transportation too....HGV’s don’t work well under battery power talking to manufacturers at this years CV show...almost ok for urban vans but useless for trunking and international work. Remember trucks have night heaters too and a lot of drivers tramp. 

As in all things their are alternatives, I have mentioned LPG which is much cleaner than diesel and would run the heating. Alan is right the Trent is easy (I am on there right now) in the past dumb barges went up an down it using mud weights so with my motor it would work fine. Trucks will give be electric what's the issue of the inside lane of motorways having overhead line's like trolley buses of old and s smaller battery bank to get them to destination.

The real issue here is we don't matter, we cost a fortune and pollute for no financial gain, so they can do what they want as we are an insignificant minority, as soon as you accept that you will start to plan for the future.

As I keep on saying the consultation doesn't have a status quo box, it has a no pollution box at the end

[frangar]

31 minutes ago, peterboat said:

 

 

 

 

 Trucks will give be electric what's the issue of the inside lane of motorways having overhead line's like trolley buses of old and s smaller battery bank to get them to destination.

The real issue here is we don't matter, we cost a fortune and pollute for no financial gain, so they can do what they want as we are an insignificant minority, as soon as you accept that you will start to plan for the future.

 

Well bridges over motorways might be interesting as they won’t have clearance for overhead lines unless they are raised or trailer units are made lower....and I can’t see the RHA going for that! And as for junctions well trolleybuses have to go slowly in town so that might cause some issues....

 

There are a lot of hobbies and pastimes that could be deemed to pollute..are you expecting all these to be banned too? ...so no more outdoor festivals or concerts....no more motor racing...even formula e flys kit around the world...no more holiday flights on jet aircraft...the list goes on and on..and I think you find that at present boaters add quite a bit to local economies where waterways pass through. 

 

[peterboat]

42 minutes ago, frangar said:

Well bridges over motorways might be interesting as they won’t have clearance for overhead lines unless they are raised or trailer units are made lower....and I can’t see the RHA going for that! And as for junctions well trolleybuses have to go slowly in town so that might cause some issues....

 

There are a lot of hobbies and pastimes that could be deemed to pollute..are you expecting all these to be banned too? ...so no more outdoor festivals or concerts....no more motor racing...even formula e flys kit around the world...no more holiday flights on jet aircraft...the list goes on and on..and I think you find that at present boaters add quite a bit to local economies where waterways pass through. 

 

I really think you have lost sight what this is all about,? It's not about your right to pollute with out thought of the consequences, but about s court ruling that the government lost twice that days they must reduce NOX!!! So they are complying with that and in the end so will we and industry because we have no choice

[Graham Davis]

1 hour ago, peterboat said:

 Trucks will give be electric what's the issue of the inside lane of motorways having overhead line's like trolley buses of old and s smaller battery bank to get them to destination.

I suggest you look at the cost of fitting all the motorways in the UK with overhead wiring structures!

[peterboat]

1 minute ago, Graham Davis said:

I suggest you look at the cost of fitting all the motorways in the UK with overhead wiring structures!

Graham what else would work? Other than the obvious trains

[Graham Davis]

3 minutes ago, peterboat said:

Graham what else would work? Other than the obvious trains

Forgetting electric/battery and going for hydrogen fuel cells.

[peterboat]

30 minutes ago, Graham Davis said:

Forgetting electric/battery and going for hydrogen fuel cells.

Graham they are a

 Waste of time research them 

[Graham Davis]

31 minutes ago, peterboat said:

Graham they are a

 Waste of time research them 

Considering that there is a local company running 2 hydrogen fuel cell cars and are now planning a LCV, I do know about them.

[peterboat]

And? How many are in the country, how many filling stations and how much energy is needed to make it? And we in Rotherham have one of the few stations with two visitors a week?

[Graham Davis]

1 hour ago, peterboat said:

And? How many are in the country, how many filling stations and how much energy is needed to make it? And we in Rotherham have one of the few stations with two visitors a week?

Atleast they are trying to overcome the lack of electricity generation capacity needed if we all moved to all electric cars.
And there is even a hydrogen "pump" in Abergavenny; not exactly the biggest town in Wales.

[peterboat]

1 minute ago, Graham Davis said:

Atleast they are trying to overcome the lack of electricity generation capacity needed if we all moved to all electric cars.
And there is even a hydrogen "pump" in Abergavenny; not exactly the biggest town in Wales.

It takes a lot more Lecce to make hydrogen which then makes Lecce to power the car than just making Lecce for the car! As I said pointless and worse than that the hydrogen is lethal because it destroys metal! So the car is a real death trap! 

[Graham Davis]

 

6 minutes ago, peterboat said:

It takes a lot more Lecce to make hydrogen which then makes Lecce to power the car than just making Lecce for the car! As I said pointless and worse than that the hydrogen is lethal because it destroys metal! So the car is a real death trap! 

Really?
Then perhaps you would like to explain how it passed the IVA test, and Volkwagen have managed to get hydrogen powered cars through the tough TUV tests? 
Sorry but you bias pro-electric is showing.

Edited July 20, 2019 by Graham Davis

[peterboat]

4 minutes ago, Graham Davis said:

 

Really?
Then perhaps you would like to explain how it passed the IVA test, and Volkwagen have managed to get hydrogen powered cars through the tough TUV tests? 
Sorry but you bias pro-electric is showing.

Graham a hydrogen car is electric with a fuel cell

[Graham Davis]

2 minutes ago, peterboat said:

Graham a hydrogen car is electric with a fuel cell

I do know that, so there is no need to be patronising.

 

[The Welsh Cruiser]

There seems to be quite a bit of virtue signalling going on in this thread, thought I might as well join in. I haven't had any kids, through choice. I'm therefore far 'greener' than anyone who has, regardless of how many electrical motors they might possess. 

[peterboat]

1 hour ago, Graham Davis said:

I do know that, so there is no need to be patronising.

 

So my point is, that if it takes twice as much electric to make hydrogen as it does to charge the batteries, save money and electric by not bothering with the hydrogen part of the car!

1 hour ago, The Welsh Cruiser said:

There seems to be quite a bit of virtue signalling going on in this thread, thought I might as well join in. I haven't had any kids, through choice. I'm therefore far 'greener' than anyone who has, regardless of how many electrical motors they might possess. 

How about two hybrid cars two electric boats and no kid's? ?

[The Welsh Cruiser]

1 hour ago, peterboat said:

 

How about two hybrid cars two electric boats and no kid's? ?

I thought you had a daughter who was into politics? Anyway, I don't intend to get into a race as to who is most green. Neither do I have a spare 5000 quid or whatever it costs to convert my boat to electric.

 

 

[peterboat]

Charly and Amy are adopted so whilst I wm their Dad I didn't produce them, not that it matters