Search the Community

As m'learned colleague Mike suggests, this may be a scarcely used boat, which should be in excellent condition - unless the engine is a replacement and they had worn the old one out! Assuming that the engine is the original, it has lots going for it: a reputable builder, good use of space (cross bed, bath, cratch, trad stern are all space-saving features which maximise the amount of internal room). The stove looks rather close to wooden panelling, but if it's passed its BSC then it's probably OK (the panels may be of fire resistant material). The lounge layout is howlingly unimaginative but at least that gives the new buyer the opportunity to arrange it to their personal taste, as I am sure you have written in more than one house brochure!. Shame about the fake rivets (a pet hate of some of our forum colleagues), but you can't see them from the inside. What it does NOT have, unless I missed it, is an independent source of central heating - you have to light the stove to heat the radiators. A diesel-powered CH system could be added, but you must factor in the potential cost. It looks to me like a boat built for somebody who either didn't like boating as much as they thought they would, or who have been unable to use it as much as they would like (work? illness?), and who now just want to get rid of it, hence the dramatic price slump. If it ticks enough of your boxes it could be a good buy.

By all means PM me - I love my ex-hire boat. Absolutely tonnes of storage. Engine was very well looked after. Hull in good nick, a couple of dents but not corroded. I installed a multi-fuel stove myself because of being able to use free wood and I like a real fire, but the boat has diesel-fired central heating too. Boat came with a shower over a bath, which I find more practical than a shower cubicle. It even had two wc's originally - I had one taken out thought to use the space as a studio. As for drawbacks, the paint job was tired and the gearbox had a slow leak, and the previous owner had let the floor get damp, but it only cost £2k to have that area of flooring replaced. It didn't have 240v but I've lived aboard 7 years now and only use a tiny portable 350w plug in inverter for a couple of gadgets that cant charge from a cigar socket. So for a 65ft boat, I paid £23k, and still feel I got a good deal. My boat slept 8 adults and had fittings for two cot beds. And it was built in 1997/8. I've slowly done a lot of work to it because I wanted something I could adapt over time (some photos of the work over the years can be found in my gallery here http://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php?app=gallery&album=193 amongst some general photos), but the more recent Black Prince hireboats are likely to need nothing doing to them - just have a solid fuel stove installed with a fireguard to keep the kiddies safe. I don't recommend ex AngloWelsh boats which IMHO are sold on much later in their hire life, and often have thinner hulls than BP (an AngloWelsh employee told me that!) Anyway - feel free to ask me any specific questions you might have.

You'll do 3 or 4 13kg bottles a year at around £25 each. Electricity (shore line in a marina) costs, coal/diesel for heating costs and diesel for moving are harder to pin down and depend largely on how you live. You're not talking mega money though. Diesel work on £1 an hour for your cruising/battery charging. Coal (that's what we heat with) can be anything from ~£280 last winter to ~£400 a couple of winters ago when it never got above freezing for the best part of two months. On the mooring I reckon we use about £8 a week in electricity and I'm convinced at least £6 a week of that is running a hair dryer and straighteners. Will you manage? Sure you will, you've renovated houses, you learnt to do that, you weren't born with the knowledge and skills required just as no one here was born with the skills required to maintain a boa.t

Hi Dave, Never take anything for granted on a boat, and certainly never take anyone's word for it! (That being said, you should listen to everything everyone says, and take it all in balance...) Survey: Get one. Unless you really know what you're talking about get a survey... Costs £250-£400, plus lifting the boat out of the water (£150-£300), but it's totally worth it. If there's nothing wrong with the boat then blamo, you have yourself a boat with full piece of mind, if there's lots wrong you got out only spending £700 or under. Anywhere in the middle and you can usually negotiate the price with the seller based on the results of the survey. As has been previously said it is worth getting a surveyor recommended; this forum is a very good place to start... Electrics: You will need an inverter to provide you with 240v (normal in a house like) electrics. You can fit a fancy unit which may cost you up to £2k, and run cables throughout the boat to sockets wherever you want them. Or you can get a cheap simple unit from ebay for under £50, which can plug in to a 12v socket on the boat, but it will not be so powerful (or very good quality), it all depends what you want to run. Bear in mind that the inverter is still using the power from the batteries, and that it has an associated loss (they are generally 90-95% efficient). You can get 12v chargers for your phone and laptop, what other devices do you want to use? Anything with a high draw (hoover, hairdryer, toaster, kettle, heater, washing machine, power tools etc) is pretty much a no go for a boat, without a very serious battery bank, and the fancy inverter... The only things that you might want to get an inverter for are battery chargers for things like cameras, or battery powered tools, and these will run off of the cheapo ebay jobs. Batteries: It has been said above. Assume the batteries are shot. New batteries are not expensive (in the grand scheme of things) I do not think you have told us how many or what capacity, but as a guide you can generally get a 110Ah battery (you probably have 2 or 3, you probably want 3 or 4) for under £100 each. Hot Water: Calorifier from engine is a very normal and good way to get hot water. Your additional options are: a small on demand gas water heater, or plumb your solid fuel stove's heating circuit into the calorifier as well (it would need to be a twin coil calorifier, or you would need to replace it). You COULD get a solar water heater as well, but not sure that this is really a viable option... Heating: Yes, your system is good. The other systems you could have are a gas boiler feeding the rads, or a diesel stove, which would create heat itself and heat the rads. Both use lots of fuel, are fraught with problems, and do not give you the lovely warm ambiance of a fire in your living space. Extra advice: Get solar panels (before next summer at least) I spent £400 including delivery from Bimble, and got a 330w system which has kept me topped up from June until now. I don't cruise massive distances so have pretty much relied on them entirely! Get some help servicing the engine so you know how to do it, but make sure you do it all yourself so you are not reliant on boatyards and mechanics (because when you really need 'em, they wont be there!) If you have more questions do ask them, and maybe give us links or pictures so we can help further. Best of luck!

Jet-A1 will cost a fortune and usually subject to the vagaries of VAT charges for international use. Kerosene is IMO (Garage in Harlow with a Kerosene pump on the forecourt (Way off the cut)) a similar price to road fuel which limits it's use rather. What you NEED is "home heating oil" but this is usually only available into a tank by an obvious house as the VAT and tax situation requires that it be sold only for home heating, BUT it's probably less than 80p a litre. At that price you could buy an IBC full and divide it between the "heating" tanks of several boats. It's too thin to feed to a diesel engine safely (and it's the wrong tax band!).

Your Eber-splutter will use almost the same amount of diesel as your engine, it will heat the water but will not replace your electrickery. You will need to provide a generator and petrol (?) and a battery charger and it will not have the output that your alternator does, it will not heat the water. Do you have a 'log-burner' with a back-boiler to heat your water ? Getting both electricity and hot water for £1 per hour (via the engine) will probably be more economic that running a genny and the Eber-splutter. However points for consideration : 1) Always try to have two sources of supply for both heating and electrickery. 2) Consider any 'on-costs' of running your main engine (wear & tear, oil change etc) EVERY boater will come to conclusions based on their own boat fit-out and circumstances, eventually you will do the same.

You will use at least a litre an hour while generating, making hot water or moving somewhere. You will use 0.7 litres an hour through something like an eberspacher, which may heat air, heat water or both. What it costs depends on how you buy it, duty is payable for propulsion fuel, but not for heating so there will be pump price and percentage declaration to get right if you buy red diesel. If you buy derv it always has duty on it, but you get it from every sainsbury's etc

Unless you have a very low electrical usage, or a large Solar set up you are probably going to neeed to generate electricity every couple of days, (or so) you will either do this with a generator, being hooked up in a marina, or run your engine for 3 or 4 hours a day (or maybe every two days if a low user) You need to do a full electrical audit, if you have a fridge, freezer or washing machine your usage will be "rather large". Work out how much elerticity you will use per day, and work out how you are going to replace it - whatever system you use will cost more than getting a mains supply. Solar will become less viable as we move into Winter - you will get some, but unless you have a very large array, it is unlikely to provide autonomy. I doubt you can base your costings on running the engine for a couple of hours every two-weeks. Just as a suggestion (unless you have alternative generating sources) base your costs on 3 hours per day at 1 litre per hour at £1 /litre = £3.00 per day - every day. (£90 per month) NOTE As a by-product you will (assuming a water cooled engine) get hot water every day, run the central heating etc. Having no home mooring (ie CCing) is not only difficult but expensive - it is not a cheap-option ! NOTE There will be those who can survive on running the engine for an hour a week, and those that need to run it 8 hours a day, £90 per month is maybe 'towards' worst case scenario but only you can determine how much electricity you use. Diesel usage is not just a function of moving, it can be a function of washing, eating and living as well. Edit for clarification "Elerticity" = Electricity

Solid fuel with diesel back up, flexible & you're unlikely to go without heat if one fails. Always think of having more than one source of heating, hot water, power generation etc., if you're living aboard. It seems costly, but when your heat source goes down & it's minus 12 outside, you'll thank your deity you went to the extra expense. Added: Don't forget to factor in running costs. I've heard of a boater paying £200 a month for diesel & his only heating source is a diesel boiler.

What happened to the Pipsqueak stove installation with external side flue that you were doing? As for diesel heaters, depending on what make and model you're considering you'll need to think about additional power usage to be sure it's right for your needs. A drip fed heater like my Taylor's requires no power - just diesel in a day tank and meths for lighting. A pumped system such as you might need for some diesel stoves and pumped Taylor's heaters requires a small amounts of electricity but continuously while you want heat. A diesel fired central heating system like an Eberspacher needs a good healthy high voltage or it won't even start. I'd be surprised if that's much different between the airtronic and the hydronic as the air blown one will need to power a fan as well as a diesel pump. It also hammers the batteries somewhat. And if it's anything like mine it doesn't like to run more than about 90 mins because that's when the hot water tank is fully hot and so the thermostat shuts it down whether the radiators have fully heated the cabins up to a comfy temperature or not. So depending on what system you're planning, your actual fuel usage may need to include the cost of running the engine more often or for longer to keep the batteries topped up, assuming you're not on shore power. More than that potential additional cost there's the general inconvenience of running the engine when you want to use the heater, say, if you've not been cruising that day or if you're watching tele or charging your laptop or when your batteries get a bit older or whatever. Only you and your other half will know if your cruising patterns and usual use of leccy around the home will suit having a diesel heating system that also depends on leccy. All in all, I'd recommend looking again at a safe installation of some sort of solid fuel heater as your additional heating rather than diesel with the gas. Both of those are pricy to run by comparison. With space at a premium, perhaps consider bulkhead mounted yacht heaters like pellet or charcoal burners. As long as it's something that's BSS compliant. Just use the ceiling for the flue collar rather than the side of the boat.

You wont get any 'relief' from the petrol station - you will be paying the full £1.30 ish a litre. If you get to an agricultural / rural are you may find petrol stations selling red diesel at considerably less than Marinas Our Eberspacher (water not hot air) uses 0.9 litres per hour when running - say its running 50% of the time then you'll use (say) 10 litres per day (£10 per day) - maybe the hot air ones use more or less than the water heating ones, but that may give you an idea. Nothing is as economical as a solid fuel stove - I reckon ours costs £3-£3.50 per day to run 24/7 and have to have the windows, and occasionally the door, open

Hi All, 12' x 60' Sailaway I am keen to run by you my current thinking for the heating system. I am working to the following principles. Minimal engine running time - I am a continuous cruiser so my engine is run as little as possible - I move every 2 weeks generally (depending on minimum stay requirements) and hope not to run my engine for electricity (I have a 760 watt of solar, 917Ah batt bank) or hot water (via solar hot water panels/tubes - not purchased yet) when I don't need to (hopefully Apr-Oct I understand) although when I do run it I would like to capture as much of the excess energy as possible. No cold periods - with my job I will from time to time be traveling , 3-4 day trips, at short notice, the system will need to kick in whether I am there or not equally I don't want to wake up in a freezing boat (even if my stove was to keep lit all night) or come back from work to a cold boat in the evening. Therefore heat should be on demand, program-able and easy to monitor (app/web access etc). Automatic - I would rather the system automatically switched and kept itself in check or alarmed if there was a problem rather than manual switching. Efficiency - I want everything to be as efficient as it can be with as little heat lost from the system (or more importantly the boat) as possible. Resilience - through disparate and non-reliant systems, I want to be able to have 1 or more of the systems to be able to be out of the service and the other working. I can live with no hot water if I have heating and visa versa Cost - it is a consideration but it isn't a constraint. If there are decent gains to be made on a long term basis by making an investment in equipment then I would want to consider it. With this in mind plus many hours studying I have come up with the following setup, I stress this is my (potentially corrupt) thinking so far and I am looking to amend, streamline or scrap where sensible, efficient or more cost effective. See 2 x diagrams below.. The boat is principally heated by a 10.5kw range oven/stove. It will have a 4kw backboiler retrofitted to it and also a 2.5kw Charnwood flue boiler to capture heat as it escapes through the flue. According to an online calculator i require 7.6kw to heat the boat space. The backboiler and flue boiler are plumbed in series, the flue boiler sits above back boiler and a three way thermostatic valve (1) and a VT112R Three port bypass valve (2) set at 55 degrees keep the fluid (presumably water antifreeze and inhibitor) local when the stove is initially lit. When vale (1) opens it starts the Webasto (Thermo Top C 5.2kw) working, pumping, firing and testing temp of the water until it reaches set temp and then continues pumping but not firing. Once the 2 thermostatic valves are open the hot water first flows through a gravity fed radiator, this will be positioned high on the bulkhead between the stern cabin and the galley and will alloow dispersal of heat in the instance of the pump breaking down. Valves 3 and 4 are SP333 and are electrically connected in series to the 12 v pump/Webasto (not sure which or both) and therefore only open when the system is pumping (thermally initiated via a sensor just after valve 3 on the main loop). I plan to include an alarm which sounds if the the power to the pump/Webasto fails but heat remains in the gravity fed loop (powered on the same battery bank as my bilge pumps and other emergency/critical systems and separate from engine and leisure). Valves (5) and (6) are SP333s too and are governed by equipment that measures a temperature differential between radiator loop and calorifier and switch accordingly ( I am aware this precludes hot water from being produced by the stove anyone know of a way around this?) (8) SP12C controller vastly increases solar efficiency. What I haven't worked out yet is where an expansion tank, header tank and any emergency pressure release valves need to go (presumably between the stove and valves 1 and 2 somewhere). Look forward to your thoughts (1) http://www.stovesonline.co.uk/wood_burning_stoves/ESBE-load-valves.html (2) http://www.honeywelluk.com/products/Valves/Other-Valves/VT100112R/ (3) & (4) http://shop.solarproject.co.uk/newshop/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=8&products_id=20&osCsid=6u7eit14eajboc9g92vdvftkm6 (5) & (6) http://shop.solarproject.co.uk/newshop/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=19&osCsid=q605hlhjm5cfgd339mflmhqa96 Range stove - http://cast-iron-stoves.co.uk/product/milan-105kw-wood-burning-multi-fuel-range-oven-coo/ Back boiler - http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/3-4kw-SMALL-BACK-BOILER-MULTI-FUEL-STOVE-STOVES-FIRE-WOOD-BURNING-ADD-ON-CLIP-/400205131913?pt=UK_HG_FireplacesMantelpieces_RL&hash=item5d2e15b089 Flue boiler - www.charnwood.com/range/stove/charnwood-flue-boiler.aspx Webasto - http://www.fadly-shop.com/products/Webasto-Thermo-Top-C-5.2kW-Water-Heater-standard-kit-12v-%252d-Diesel-(9003168C).html

Okay I know I'm being lazy But someone on the forum knows the answer I want to know what's the most cost effective way to charge my battery's up Battery's 5 x 110, plus 3 x 70 amp engine a BT battery's Have 50 hp beta engine with 150 amp alternator, set to 1200'revs. Figures Per hour of use Or Whisper/paguro 4000 Genny, running the inverter charger 80 amp. Figures Per hour of use Both diesel My heads full of cotton wall, thanks to new meds Or is the difference so small. Knowing that with the engine it heats the water But with Genny can switch the emersion on anyway Any help with answers would be appreciated Col

Are you planning for the £42 a month diesel to cover all of your heating costs? With a boat that size, I'd doubt it. A solid fuel stove might be a cheaper option, maybe £15-20 a month over the year.

Another diesel heating option is a Lockgate reflex. I have one and it's very handy in that the heat is pretty quick and with a back boiler you do get hot water too ..... it's clean (only needs to be cleaned once a year or so) but it does suffer the same cost problems that all diesel stoves do http://www.lockgate.com/

Quote " being a man in the know, would you know if 6x100 watt solar panels be enough to keep the batteries topped up without having to run the engine for a few hrs every day? also how much roughly does the average engine cost to run per hr? cheers" 600w of solar, (through a mppt controller) will provide a useful amount of power during the summer, and about 1/10th of it in winter (it all depends, of course, on how much power you need - which is why folks suggest you do a power audit first - - determine how much power you need, and then design a system to provide the power.) A 1.5Ltr BMC engine uses between 0.75 and 1Ltr of diesel per hour on idle (just driving alternators). but you also need to factor in maintenance costs, and, if being thorough - replacement costs too. When I calculated the overall generation costs incurred with our (bigger) Beta engine - It came out at about >£1.00 per Kwh. (And solar is a great deal quieter too) - but like all systems on boats - it's most practical having more than one system for everything, (and to all intents and purposes, you will not ever heat water using pv panels)

Thank you so much for your suggestions, I think I get it now! I also found this. (Might be useful for someone else if searching for info) Q & A Heating/hot water Hi Are there any rules or regulations or reasons why I can not fit a small LPG domestic combi boiler in my narrow boat. David Asked by: David Anderson | 1.27pm, Thursday 16 June WW says: In principle, there is no reason that you cannot instal a combi boiler, provider the manufacturer has warrantied it for installed on marine craft. If they do not allow it to be installed and will not warranty the boiler, then it is not type approved and cannot be installed. Some manufacturers will, but most won't. You also need to be able to safely accomodate the flue- you must use the manufacturers fitting and terminal ends- and also the maximum (and more importantly, minimum) lengths of flue- which can be difficult to fit in a boat. If the boiler is not room-sealed (as some models aren't) then installation is much more difficult- read the BSS guide. To pass the flue spillage test, may require a much longer flue than can be accomodated. A room sealed unit would not have those issues. Also, the gas input loading would mean that, to avoid pressure drop, you would have to fit a sizeable diameter pipework to the boiler- and the marine GasSafe engineer that you use to fit such a boiler should be able to advise. However, even the smallest domestic combi unit is vastly overpowered for use on a narrowboat- a narrowboat needs a maximum of around 5KW to heat it- and actually a lot less- around 2.8KW constantly for a 60ft narrowboat, maintaining an interior temprature of 21dec C when its -1C outside... This means that the boiler will be constantly cycling- which doesn't do it much good, as it will be lighting, burning and shutting down within a very short time. Also, it would require a constant pure sine wave 230V supply operating- and the consumption when pumping on heating cycle is quite high, compared to a extra-low voltage (12 or 24 V) diesel heating system, for example. This would mean a landline or inverter running constantly. So, you might be able to fit one, given the above constraints- but think why they are almost unheard of on boats- if they were easy, simple and effective, they would be far more utilised. I have come across two boats (one narrow, one widebeam) with them fitted and the owners were not happy with them on both occasions- it had cost them a lot to maintain (due to the short-cycling)- one was planning to remove and fit a smaller caravan/marine LPG burner unit.

Depending on usage you need to factor in running costs of different systems and the payback on expensive installations. If you run a diesel heater using in the order of 0.8 lt per hour then that's about 65p depending on where you buy your diesel. That can be a significant cost during the winter months. Advantage of diesel or LPG heating is, if you need just a quick burst of heat for the odd chilly evening in spring and autumn and for instant hot water. Many combinations that you need to match against your own type of usage.

Alde is a gas combi boiler, I'm surprised that you missed that you can buy a diesel combi boiler too. The 3 big names are Eberspacher, Mikuni and Webasto. Eber seem to have a poor reputation for reliability with many reports of them going wrong over time, hence many threads on them on this forum and personally I'd try to avoid. Mikuni and Webasto seem trouble-free, therefore don't come up that often in technical help threads. Unfortunately they all cost quite a bit of money. The reason you can't use a house boiler like the one you linked to is that a) it is designed for a much higher heat output, to reflect the floor area/volume of a house, which will be many times that of a typical canal boat; LPG and natural gas are slightly different, and would need different burners (well they do in cookers), I doubt if LPG burners are readily available for home boilers; c) the flue arrangement on a home boiler is probably incompatible with a narrowboat or widebeam bodyshell; or canal features such as low bridges, etc d) it would take up quite a lot of space in a boat.

To fully evaluate the difference in costs you also need to incude an element for the capital invested, depreciation or appreciation. A boat will have been purchased and used your capital which could have been invested elsewhere and given you a return (allbeit a small one for the last few years) A boat will be depreciating in value - your £40,000 invested may be worth £20,000 or even £10,000 in 20 years time (£1,000 / £2000 per year depreciation) A rented flat is money 'thrown away', you will never own it. A house / flat purchased will probably double in value over 20 year period. Costs / values are just examples not firm or guaranteed figures. To be truly comparative you should also look at the opportunity costs - the hour it takes you to cruise to the water point could, on 'land' be usefully used to do an extra hours' work - earning more. You cannot just take your 'running costs' and compare them - but - My house council tax is £250 per month, my boat mooring costs are £233 per month House Insurance £178, boat insurance £115 House maintenance £400 per annum (over the last 10 years) Boat maintenance (painting, blacking, engine service etc) £800 per annum. Boat licence £800 per annum Home cental heating & Elec £2000 per annum, Boat diesel & coal £800 Approximate totals : Home £5578 pa Boat £5315 pa House 4000 sq feet Boat 270 square feet No mortgage on house and no finance on boat.

We have both and in five years of CCing, the number of hours that the diesel heating has been used is countable on two hands and possibly a few toes. We use approximately two and a third bags (25Kg) per week in the winter, cost per bag is variable on type and supplier. I would raise G&R figure of £20 to £30 as cost is rising all the time and it is now almost £12 a bag (see previous sentence) Diesel heater uses between approximately 0.75 to 1.5 ltr per hour, depending on where it is on its cycle, at today's prices about £1 to £1.50 per hour.

That's for all the responses so far. Just to clarify some common responses: I am based in the midlands and the morning cost is based on a figure I got from the marina for a residential morning and this wasn't the cheapest residential morning I was quoted but the marina is in a good location for me. We do plan on having solid fuel as well as diesel heating so do need to factor in that cost. Main reason we want alternative to just solid fuel is due to the baby as others with children on a liveaboard have recommended this

My Webesto is programmed for 1 hr on 2 hrs off throughout the day if I'm on board, then switch Silent low wattage electrical heating throughout the boat at night (via Battery/inverter topped up via Solar & Wind power.)at a guess approx 0.85 litre per hr, for 6 hrs that it's on. so am guessing around the £5 a day mark on diesel if on board during the day, Probably £3 a day if not. So yes probably more expensive than solid fuel, (don't know haw much a sack is ?, or how long it lasts on ave now). And obviously it hardly costs anything at all when I'm cruising. So it's hard to actually put a cost on heating in my case, All I know is ,I spent approximately an average of £1700 in fuel (In total) per year, costs taken over 3 years, For all my Propulsion, Generator, Hot water & Heating needs. All of which are Diesel fed unit's, as a Livaboard CCr. So about £5 a day on average I suppose.

Yes each hob is 800w and so running both will be 1600w so your 1000w inverter will either start to emit the magic smoke or will shut down as it is overloaded You cannot just start using such apliances without considering your whole electrical system - how many batteries do you have, what size are they and how are you going to recharge them ? You will be drawing 160 amps thru an inverter (not the one you have now as it is too small) that means that for one hours usage you will need 4 x100Ah batteries DEDICATED to the cooker (and nothing else) It will take (probably) around 6 to 7 hours of engine running with a 70 amp alternator to replace one-hours hob usage. To have an 'electric boat' is not a simple thing and the boat has to be built to suit. This is why you see very, very few electric cooking / heating boats. With the advent of 'electrically powered boats' that have huge battery banks and methods of charging they have no option but to have electric cooking - however to convert a diesel boat to an electric boat can cost up to £30,000 depending on if you can do all the work yourself, or are paying for it to be done.

The first link is some type of EU related advertising, and the second good link has this part: Choose an appliance that the manufacturer or supplier says is suitable for boats So if you are a good manufacturer you would want to document the build in terms of the exact statements published by the manufacturer, not the seller or store involved. Then you would follow the rest of the installation BSS or manufacturers recommendations. That way you can dodge a potential legal action after the boat is sold, if the new owner blows themselves or the boat up, or finishes up in A&E with CO poisoning. Most private boat owners seem to ignore any regulations that do not result in them getting fined, or their boat confiscated or impounded as a danger to navigation, but this forum does seem to have a lot of regular posters that encourage others to install domestic appliances for heating and cooking. In reality part of the issue is with the design of modern canal boats, because if you made them a centre cockpit type, (I have seen a few classic ones with that type of design), then you can install a coal or wood stove under an awning, and with loose fitting roll down side covers that would be a safer place for a small diesel gen set, or coal stove. In fact I have already purchased and tested a small wood or charcoal burner for use above the rescue deck: Portable Camping Tent Wood Burning Stove Ultralight Wood Stove w/ Chimney Pipes | eBay Note that is not the exact one that I purchased, and the pictures are deceptive. The big issue with them in safety terms seem to be that the chimney tubes don't seal up correctly. There are lots of similar stainless or alloy mini stoves, that can be used for one pot or pan, in addition to the heating of a smallish above decks area. Only a mental case would install one below decks, particularly if they used charcoal rather than wood. Some of the sellers of similar products do say they are suitable for a boat, BUT such comments are of no legal significance, as it's the actual manufacturer you need to check in terms of some kind of approval or recommended for use section of a real company web site. Obviously if the company web site is only in Chinese, with no English version, then that's not going to be good news in quality or safety terms. The actual item does need to me marked with a company name in a manner that is difficult to copy, which most are not. Otherwise there is a risk that the item might be a copy. I would note that price of wood and coal heaters or stoves has gone up, as has the classic cost of a good used Primus, (I've already restored one). Not checked if the Origo alcohol Heat Pal or expensive electric/alcohol cookers, (Seriously good marine units, but a tad too expensive for me), have gone up even more, although a German company is now making the smaller one and 2 ring burners. No sign of any smaller hydrogen heaters or cookers yet, as I was hoping some company might be selling burner conversion kits. Hydrogen is one safe fuel, as it can't cause a CO risk and is far lighter than air, so if you have a leak it does not collect in the bilges like Propane.