What grit to add to deck paint - Kiln dried sand?

[jckm2000]

Hi Folks,
I'm in the process of painting a friends Dutch barge, the deck has been taken back to bare metal, and is now in primer. I need to add some grit to the enamel I've been given to make it non slip. Having seen some tiny bags for sale at a local chandlers at around a fiver a bag (I'm going to need quite a few) I'm tempted to try some kiln dried fine play pit sand (around a fiver for 25kg).

Has anyone done this successfully, or am I barking up the wrong tree?

Any ideas??

Cheers,

C.

[Phil Ambrose]

Hi Folks,

I'm in the process of painting a friends Dutch barge, the deck has been taken back to bare metal, and is now in primer. I need to add some grit to the enamel I've been given to make it non slip. Having seen some tiny bags for sale at a local chandlers at around a fiver a bag (I'm going to need quite a few) I'm tempted to try some kiln dried fine play pit sand (around a fiver for 25kg).

 

Has anyone done this successfully, or am I barking up the wrong tree?

 

Any ideas??

 

Cheers,

 

C.

When we had a Broads cruiser it had 18" wide side decks, a stern deck and also the bows had a 12" wide walkway around them. My wife painted them in the same (International) paint as the rest of the boat.

So quite a large area on a 40ft boat and all she used were International none-slip granules which came in a small tub, they appeared to be small glass beads which were mixed into the paint. They stayed in suspension pretty well with just occasional stirring being needed, brush application seemed to be best.

We (actually she) felt it produced a far better job than playing around sprinkling sand onto wet paint.

 

Phil

[Higgs]

If you're going to use sand, use kiln dried block paving sand. Don't add it to the paint, though. Mask the areas into manageable areas, then, paint down the colour you want to finish it in. Thin the paint, but not to a watery consistency and do the area with a roller. Make a hopper to sprinkle the sand and, cover the paint. Clean the sand from the next area (the overspill) and repeat first by putting down the colour, then, sand. Leave for twenty four hours and clean or vacuum the excess and loose sand that hasn't stuck.

 

Next part - mix your colour, which should be the same colour you applied prior to sprinkling. Use a roller, or brush, roller will be quicker to apply thinned paint to surface of sand. You will need to have a wet look to the paint as you're going along. Not flooding, but enough to overcome the soaked in effect and end up with a wet look. This wet look will dry to a nice even finish and will look flat, not glossy.

 

Don't use full thickness paint - it will clog the texture and you may end up with glossy and flat looking areas which is not attractive. You can use gloss paint or floor paint or, any suitable exterior paint.

 

Forgot to say - key or rough the areas you want to sand. Scratch it with 180 grit or similar before first coat of paint.

 

Try it on some small areas, it should look good and even. 7" foam gloss rollers will be ok, and 4" for smaller areas.

Edited June 7, 2013 by Higgs

[Mike Jordan]

I have used the system of laying down paint and sprinkling on the non slip material as outlined above. I would be very reluctant to use sand for this purpose since you are totally unable to remove the resulting mix on a later date when you need to repaint!

You can't sand it off with any of the normal equipment (the sand is as hard as the sander disc itself) and have to resort to chipping or using a scrabbler type tool. You should consider the use of the plastic grit which I think is sold by International Paints, or I have used salt sprinkled onto the first coat of varnish on a set of oak stairs that may work but you would need to experiment.

One of my previous boating neighbours spent several weekends chipping paint off the roof of a 60 footer with an SDS chisel! Its think before you sprinkle!

Mike

[Ally]

I'd go with Higgs technique and materials. We found the granules made by international and other companies are just not 'man enough' to give a decent anti-slip feel under your foot, especially if you need to repaint over it at any time later on. They are 'ok', but the kiln dried sand is so much more effective IMO.

[jenlyn]

Hi Folks,

I'm in the process of painting a friends Dutch barge, the deck has been taken back to bare metal, and is now in primer. I need to add some grit to the enamel I've been given to make it non slip. Having seen some tiny bags for sale at a local chandlers at around a fiver a bag (I'm going to need quite a few) I'm tempted to try some kiln dried fine play pit sand (around a fiver for 25kg).

Has anyone done this successfully, or am I barking up the wrong tree?

Any ideas??

Cheers,

C.

Toys R Us play sand, all washed and dried, ready to use. Last one I bought was 6 quid for 10 kg. Sugar shaker to spread it on the deck area.

[Biggles]

I used Crushed oyster shell on the roof, sprinkled onto wet paint, Vey course and grippy and will take many coats of paint before becoming too smooth. Its as cheap as chips, very consistent in size and can be got from pet / animal feed shops as its used for chickens. I think it was about £10 for 12.5kg.

 

On the gunwales and front deck I used course carborundum as its much harder wearing, but VERY expensive! Same technique.

 

Blog LInky and if you do a search you will find more.

 

Blog Linky2

 

 

Time taken on masking is the key to a very nice finish to the job. I radiused all my corners.

 

Edited June 8, 2013 by Biggles

[smileypete]

Worth a trawl of the rag'n'stick forums as it's a hot topic for lumpy water boats.

 

Seems some of the expensive anti-slip paint additives can be had quite cheaply as resin additives.

 

Also masonry paint or even textured masonry paint gets used too.

 

cheers, Pete.

~smpt~

[Taslim]

I did a similar job to the one done by Biggles, same methods, for a mate. Didn't use oyster shell but I'll rememer that one. What I used was carbide blasting grit which was had (legitimatly!) from a local engineering firm cheaply since they buy it by the truck load & were happy to flog me a couple of bags. Two years on & it dosn't look to shabby.

 

taslim.

[Nightwatch]

A little off topic. We need to repaint our roof which is 'textured' and all sound.

 

I guess that I just need to thin down the paint so it covers the peaks and troughs. If I were to decide to change colour from green to, say, alighter colour would I still thin the paint?

 

As an alturnative I may just clean it!!!!!!

 

Martyn

[Higgs]

I have used the system of laying down paint and sprinkling on the non slip material as outlined above. I would be very reluctant to use sand for this purpose since you are totally unable to remove the resulting mix on a later date when you need to repaint!

 

Mike

 

 

You can get it off. But, it was put on to be durable and provides one of the best surfaces for a sure grip in wet conditions.

 

Getting it off is easiest with a Scabbler and a good sized roof can be stripped in a couple of hours, using star wheels for concrete not paint. The long winded way is to use stout scrapers, well sharpened. About an inch to an inch and a half wide, then, go straight underneath the sanded area and scrape. Using scrapers, it is best if you have at least four to rotate, sharpening every so often. As long as you don't try to scrape the sand itself, the scrapers can do the job. Having a few scrapers will avoid the scrapers losing useful length too quickly as you sharpen.

 

This is for steel boats. The options above are not suitable for GRP boats.

Edited June 8, 2013 by Higgs

[Higgs]

A little off topic. We need to repaint our roof which is 'textured' and all sound.

 

I guess that I just need to thin down the paint so it covers the peaks and troughs. If I were to decide to change colour from green to, say, alighter colour would I still thin the paint?

 

As an alturnative I may just clean it!!!!!!

 

Martyn

 

When you're repainting any surface, the surface needs prepping and cleaning. With textured surfaces I'd suggest a stiff floor brush and detergent, then, sluice it down with fresh water.

 

The reason paint is thinned, when painting textured surfaces, is to maintain the texture. Filling the texture with paint may look the job, but it undermines the grip.

 

No reason, within reason, why you can't change the colour. As the paint is thinned, though, this may not work 100%. To achieve full colour, you might have to apply too much and end up filling the texture.

Edited June 8, 2013 by Higgs

[dor]

For the roof I prefer the paint additive. It gives a bit of grip but is still easy to clean. You don't walk on the roof that often.

 

For gunwales and bits like the stern decks I would only use sand, applied as described (more or less) by Higgs above. Whilst the granules give you a bit of grip it is still quite slippy when wet. Sand properly done gives you much better grip. If I have to walk down the side decks I want as much grip as possible (cue pedant to say you shouldn't be walking down the gunwales) without it being too rough.

 

If using sand, makes sure you have enough hardened paint under the sand layer so that the sand won't get pushed through to the metal.

[Psycloud]

 

You can get it off. But, it was put on to be durable and provides one of the best surfaces for a sure grip in wet conditions.

 

Getting it off is easiest with a Scabbler and a good sized roof can be stripped in a couple of hours, using star wheels for concrete not paint. The long winded way is to use stout scrapers, well sharpened. About an inch to an inch and a half wide, then, go straight underneath the sanded area and scrape. Using scrapers, it is best if you have at least four to rotate, sharpening every so often. As long as you don't try to scrape the sand itself, the scrapers can do the job. Having a few scrapers will avoid the scrapers losing useful length too quickly as you sharpen.

 

This is for steel boats. The options above are not suitable for GRP boats.

 

Hi - do you mean this...

 

http://www.brandontoolhire.co.uk/en/decorating-tool-hire/143-rotary-scabbler.html

 

Our roof has been badly painted over a previously sanded surface and the top coat is peeling but needs stripping back as I'll never be able to just clean off the top coat.

 

The cutter options are:

 

• C4 solid tungsten carbide claw cutters are for shaving off coatings; leaves a smooth finish
• C5 solid tungsten star cutters are for keying hard coatings; leaves a keyed surface
• C6 tungsten carbide tipped scabbling cutters, for render and plaster; leaves a rough finish
• C2 steel star cutters for cleaning off paint and rust; the C2’s are the only cutters for use on steel

 

So would you reccommend the C2 or one of the others?

[pquinn]

i used the budgie cage stuff that you get in petshops.kiln dried.put it through a sieve first to remove the shell.a pretty decent result i think and and follow higgs method of aplication.

[smileypete]

The cutter options are:

 

• C4 solid tungsten carbide claw cutters are for shaving off coatings; leaves a smooth finish
• C5 solid tungsten star cutters are for keying hard coatings; leaves a keyed surface
• C6 tungsten carbide tipped scabbling cutters, for render and plaster; leaves a rough finish
• C2 steel star cutters for cleaning off paint and rust; the C2’s are the only cutters for use on steel

 

So would you reccommend the C2 or one of the others?

C4 for a roof with sand according to this post:

 

http://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=48632&page=1

 

Be worth doing a forum search on 'scabbler', wealth of info there.

 

cheers, Pete.

~smpt~

[Higgs]

 

Hi - do you mean this...

 

http://www.brandontoolhire.co.uk/en/decorating-tool-hire/143-rotary-scabbler.html

 

Our roof has been badly painted over a previously sanded surface and the top coat is peeling but needs stripping back as I'll never be able to just clean off the top coat.

 

The cutter options are:

 

• C4 solid tungsten carbide claw cutters are for shaving off coatings; leaves a smooth finish
• C5 solid tungsten star cutters are for keying hard coatings; leaves a keyed surface
• C6 tungsten carbide tipped scabbling cutters, for render and plaster; leaves a rough finish
• C2 steel star cutters for cleaning off paint and rust; the C2’s are the only cutters for use on steel

 

So would you reccommend the C2 or one of the others?

 

Sorry, I've not been paying attention. The tool is exactly the same as I used to use - very good. It needs to be controlled, as it can have a mind of its own. But, it's very satisfying to see it chew off the sand, and does no damage to the steel. The surface will need a going over with a sander, just to finish.

 

The choice of cutters. The star wheels for paint are thinner than those suitable for concrete or hard finishes. Stars for paint will rapidly start loosing teeth. The choices I had were for paint or concrete, the C2's, although for paint and steel, will not last five minutes with sand. Sand coated areas will be of different resistances to coming off, but the paint star wheels are not suitable.

 

It's noisy and you need ear protectors. The good thing is, it's a relatively short process. Woud be worth attaching a vacuum.

 

I only seemed to have two choices. The wheels of both kinds have a more or less chisel type look to the cutting edges of the teeth. As the steel surface of the boat will not give, as maybe some surfaces would, the tool will ride around the surface and not gouge, unless you allow the tool to depart from a straight-down orientation. There's a rubber fitting that allows for a certain amount of flexing of the head. You have to control it - that's why it has two handles, as they are.

 

The tendency is to always apply pressure to the edges of orbital tools. This will wear the teeth around the edges first, so try and keep it perpendicular to surface. This edge-pressure use of orbital tools will reduce the effective life of the tool and wear the bearing.

Edited June 14, 2013 by Higgs