Odor for pump out toilet system

[Glynn]

I need Help Please, We have an unpleasant smell from around our waste holding tank.

The smell is not the same as the smell from within the holding tank. It is more of a bad chemical smell

So far we have change the piping and inspection cover for new.

The airflow from the tank is good.

We have checked the pipes & tank using the damp cloth test (no smell on cloth).

We have cleaned the wooden floor under the bed just incase in the past a spillage has occurred.

Yesterday we pumped out the system again cleaned the floor again; no smell yes jump for joy. Then we went for a sail, the engine warmed the water system (warmed the area under the bed) and the smell came back as bad as ever.

 

We are at the point of ripping it out and possibly replacing the bedroom floor just incase, any ideas before we rip it out, on what we may have missed not tried yet.

 

We have a pump out system with a macerator toilet make LeeSan.

The holding tank is under the bed.

Also under the bed is our calorifier, which does warm the area under the bed.

The overflow/pressure release valve from the heating tank is feed into the toilet waste tank???? This is on a PSI valve so only operates when heating system needs to dump to reduce pressure in its system.

 

If the dumping of hot water into the tank or warming the area under the bed is the problem then we must also have an air leak from the holding tank but just don’t know form where?

[nicknorman]

I need Help Please, We have an unpleasant smell from around our waste holding tank.

The smell is not the same as the smell from within the holding tank. It is more of a bad chemical smell

So far we have change the piping and inspection cover for new.

The airflow from the tank is good.

We have checked the pipes & tank using the damp cloth test (no smell on cloth).

We have cleaned the wooden floor under the bed just incase in the past a spillage has occurred.

Yesterday we pumped out the system again cleaned the floor again; no smell yes jump for joy. Then we went for a sail, the engine warmed the water system (warmed the area under the bed) and the smell came back as bad as ever.

 

We are at the point of ripping it out and possibly replacing the bedroom floor just incase, any ideas before we rip it out, on what we may have missed not tried yet.

 

We have a pump out system with a macerator toilet make LeeSan.

The holding tank is under the bed.

Also under the bed is our calorifier, which does warm the area under the bed.

The overflow/pressure release valve from the heating tank is feed into the toilet waste tank???? This is on a PSI valve so only operates when heating system needs to dump to reduce pressure in its system.

 

If the dumping of hot water into the tank or warming the area under the bed is the problem then we must also have an air leak from the holding tank but just dont know form where?

Having the calorifier PRV exit into the tank seems a very bad idea to me - if it sticks open and the water pump continues to run you will have a poo disaster on your hands (literally) when the tank overflows. Best to take it overboard or at least into the stern gland area where the bilge pump will get rid of it. I am not convinced that the low pressure side of a PRV is airtight?

 

We found that even the best quality flexi poo pipes are somewhat permeable to smell if they are left with sewerage in them. The smell is a rubbery poo smell! Probably how you would smell if you had a diet solely of rubber!

 

Our pump our pipes run through a wardrobe to the roof fittings. We soon learnt that we had rinse out the pipes with clean water after a pump out to prevent the wardrobe from smelling. If you have flexi pipes running from the toilet to the tank, try to avoid low points where the poo can sit and waft out of the pipes. There is a thread elsewhere here about the benefits of using solid solvent weld pipe for this sort of thing.

Edited April 21, 2013 by nicknorman

[ditchcrawler]

Sometimes plywood can smell when it gets warmed up if its been a bit damp it seems worse.

[bottle]

Have you looked under the floor?

[DeanS]

Throw out the holding tank.

Convert it to storage.

Buy a nice cassette toilet.

No more problems.

[Grace and Favour]

Nick's right - a PRV outlet into a blackwater tank is not a good idea

 

If there's no easy access to your bilge pump/overboard I would fit an expansion tank along with your PRV

as a much more preferable solution

Having the calorifier PRV exit into the tank seems a very bad idea to me - if it sticks open and the water pump continues to run you will have a poo disaster on your hands (literally) when the tank overflows. Best to take it overboard or at least into the stern gland area where the bilge pump will get rid of it. I am not convinced that the low pressure side of a PRV is airtight?

[Doorman]

Throw out the holding tank.

Convert it to storage.

Buy a nice cassette toilet.

No more problems.

Other than walking or driving to the Elsan every few days - marvellous in winter - and getting there only to find that some Rodney hasn't cleaned the damn thing out after using it last.

 

We've had the 'benefit' of a previous boat with a cassette loo, never again!

 

In fact, we have a new Porta Potti for sale after buying it as a back-up in case we were ever caught short between pump-out facilities. It's for sale as we've never had to use it.

 

Dean, do you think that I might have just lit the blue touch paper with those inflammatory comments?

 

Now where did I put that coat?

[RickH]

Do you have a vent pipe ?

[Fred_Smith]

Do you use Blue or similar? I suggest you don't if you do because the effluent does not break down, better to use no additives and the good bacteria will keep the smell to a minimum or eliminate it. This may of course not be the source of your problem, the other thing you might try is a septic tank treatment or bio boost which helps the good bacteria grow

[Bill]

Do you have a vent pipe ?

 

Very important in keeping the whiff down. Better to have a vent at each end of the tank to allow a flow of air. I'd route the PRV overboard via a skin fitting, add 2 more large bore skin fittings (1 1/2") and install 2 vents (if you already have a vent then just add one to the other end of the tank). Of course this means drilling both the holding tank and the hull plus pipework. Bio-magic or similar in the tank to keep the bacteria happy. When you flush you may get a pong outside the boat as the air is expelled via the vents, you can use an in-line filter to stop that but it really is not much of an issue.

[ditchcrawler]

Other than walking or driving to the Elsan every few days - marvellous in winter - and getting there only to find that some Rodney hasn't cleaned the damn thing out after using it last.

 

We've had the 'benefit' of a previous boat with a cassette loo, never again!

 

In fact, we have a new Porta Potti for sale after buying it as a back-up in case we were ever caught short between pump-out facilities. It's for sale as we've never had to use it.

 

Dean, do you think that I might have just lit the blue touch paper with those inflammatory comments?

 

Now where did I put that coat?

We have used our backup twice in 12 years, not much but we would have been buggered without it.

[smileypete]

I need Help Please, We have an unpleasant smell from around our waste holding tank.

The smell is not the same as the smell from within the holding tank. It is more of a bad chemical smell

So far we have change the piping and inspection cover for new.

The airflow from the tank is good.

We have checked the pipes & tank using the damp cloth test (no smell on cloth).

We have cleaned the wooden floor under the bed just incase in the past a spillage has occurred.

Yesterday we pumped out the system again cleaned the floor again; no smell yes jump for joy. Then we went for a sail, the engine warmed the water system (warmed the area under the bed) and the smell came back as bad as ever.

 

We are at the point of ripping it out and possibly replacing the bedroom floor just incase, any ideas before we rip it out, on what we may have missed not tried yet.

 

We have a pump out system with a macerator toilet make LeeSan.

The holding tank is under the bed.

Also under the bed is our calorifier, which does warm the area under the bed.

The overflow/pressure release valve from the heating tank is feed into the toilet waste tank???? This is on a PSI valve so only operates when heating system needs to dump to reduce pressure in its system.

 

If the dumping of hot water into the tank or warming the area under the bed is the problem then we must also have an air leak from the holding tank but just don’t know form where?

Does the pong only happen when the calorifier and surroundings heat up? If so, could be that something's got spilled on the woodwork and outgasses when heated up.

 

If it IS the woodwork, to seal odours in wood, a couple of coats of shellac based knotting solution or shellac based primer like Zinseer BIN might do it:

 

http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=shellac+seal+smells

 

Though it may even be in the foam on the calorifer, or a mattress.

 

cheers, Pete.

~smpt~

[alan_fincher]

I also think venting a PRV on the calorifier into the holding tank is an incredibly dumb idea.

 

Presumably it is completely sealed, so there is no way of knowing how much water the PRV may (or may not be) expelling?

 

Also, is there not at least a theoretical possibility of small amounts of your septic waste getting back into your domestic hot water system? Unlikely, maybe, but PRV's can stick open due to scale, so if the holding tank were full, and your domestic water allowed to cool and contract, couldn't it possibly drag sewage back the other way?

[mrsmelly]

Throw out the holding tank.

Convert it to storage.

Buy a nice cassette toilet.

No more problems.

Hi

 

The trouble is Deans simplistic answer is too correct. I have lived aboard for more years than most forum members ( not all ) and have lived with pump out and cassette type bogs. the facts are that cassette type/porta potti bogs are far far better and make much more sense than pump out bogs ( I have had both types ) hobby boaters may disagree and newbie boaters who have say only ten or so years liveaboard experience may also disagree but the facts are that getting rid of silly tanks is the way to go to give storage rather than storing poo is the way to go. cassettes do not smell and are much superior in extended useage.

 

Tim

[Glynn]

Thank you for all your help on this matter

 

I too have thought the PRV valve dumping into the waste tank was a daft idea (we bought the boat like that)

As for the wooden floor we have cleaned it more than twice we also sealed it with a laqeur.

The tank has two air vents

 

Well I will spend one more weekend trying to sort it out, I will remove the PRV pipe from the tank and reroute, then if that fails to improve the issue does anyone want a secondhand pump out toilet system

[alan_fincher]

......................then if that fails to improve the issue does anyone want a secondhand pump out toilet system

Errm,

 

I'd not say you have done a marvellous job advertising this one so far!

[DeanS]

I have read enough posts on this forum where members have had to take apart a macerator toilet, or had pongs from pump outs. My wife would have walked off the boat if this had happened. Casettes have been the reason we're still living on a boat. I get it, that if you are moored far from an elsan, the thought of carrying it every 3 days to go empty isn't a happy thought. The option is to have more than one casette cartridge. You can then just keep them stored somewhere till D Day. We have 2. We're a family of 5. I empty both every few days, at the same time as filling the boat with water....which is normally near the elsan point anyway. If you're 2 on a boat, then 2 catridges could last you a week... Also, while cruising the system, there are definately more elsan points, and they're free. This is one of those forum subjects with 2 warring parties, but if I bought a boat with a pump out, I would replace it right away. Also, if you use chemicals in an elsan, they dont stink, even when emptying them. However, my father in law once stayed on the boat for a week, and didnt use chemicals. I still have painful memories of emptying it...scorched in my brain forever.....my eyes were watering...I have never smelt anything so bad in my entire life......(now imagine that leaking in the boat?)

[johnmck]

Hiya.

 

We have three casettes and there are but two of us! One sits under the bog. one is held in a bracket and strap in the bow thruster locker and the "emergency reserve" is under the bed. In the past whilst hiring, the gurgling of fermentation in a pump out tank, was shall we say, unsettling!

 

With our current set up, we have loads of storage under the bed, free disposal of waste and this is not an odious task. Would we ever think of converting to a pump out? I think the answer is obvious.

 

Like everything, its a question of management. Let K.I.S.S. be your mantra.

 

[nicknorman]

OMG here we go again! Just to counter by saying that we have a pumpout system that doesn't smell, doesn't have to be thought about for a couple of weeks and doesn't require near daily toddling off to the small shack carrying the evidence of all gastronomic misdeeds sloshing around in a small plastic box with dribble evidence. Whenever we see the poo porters we always have a chuckle and say "thank heavens we don't have to do that!". We just hope they don't stumble as they pass our boat and smash the nasty plastic thingy against our boat, as has been known to happen in the past (not our boat fortunately)

 

Is it round 2 yet? (ding ding)

[Jerra]

I find the cassette v pumpout amusing. One point I find really amusing is the number of pro cassette people who say oh no we don't want a large tank of that stuff on board, and follow that up by saying if you have multiple cassettes you don't need to go to the disposal point so often.

[johnmck]

OMG here we go again! Just to counter by saying that we have a pumpout system that doesn't smell, doesn't have to be thought about for a couple of weeks and doesn't require near daily toddling off to the small shack carrying the evidence of all gastronomic misdeeds sloshing around in a small plastic box with dribble evidence. Whenever we see the poo porters we always have a chuckle and say "thank heavens we don't have to do that!". We just hope they don't stumble as they pass our boat and smash the nasty plastic thingy against our boat, as has been known to happen in the past (not our boat fortunately)

 

Is it round 2 yet? (ding ding)

 

We are all differant, enjoy the diversity. But......Casette every time.

[nicknorman]

We are all differant, enjoy the diversity. But......Casette every time.

With all that beer you are drinking in your smiley, you will need cassettes plural, not cassette!

[johnmck]

 

With all that beer you are drinking in your smiley, you will need cassettes plural, not cassette!

 

That's why we need three! Not all filled and awaiting expurgation at any one time I should add! Horses for courses. If it's right for you, it's right......

[Doorman]

OMG here we go again! Just to counter by saying that we have a pumpout system that doesn't smell, doesn't have to be thought about for a couple of weeks and doesn't require near daily toddling off to the small shack carrying the evidence of all gastronomic misdeeds sloshing around in a small plastic box with dribble evidence. Whenever we see the poo porters we always have a chuckle and say "thank heavens we don't have to do that!". We just hope they don't stumble as they pass our boat and smash the nasty plastic thingy against our boat, as has been known to happen in the past (not our boat fortunately)Is it round 2 yet? (ding ding)

Ding ding, round two.

 

In support of your unusually good response (joking of course), someone recently quoted an incident where a couple were sat enjoying their alfresco lunch outside a popular canal side pub, that's also located next to an Elsan point and a boater unloaded his sloshing cassette and dumped it on their table!

 

Now, whether you support 'pump-out' or cassette type storage of food processing or not, that sort of obnoxious behaviour would never happen with a pump-out system on board.

 

Round 3 anybody?

Edited April 23, 2013 by Doorman

[Tuscan]

Ding ding, round two.

In support of your unusually good response (joking of course), someone recently quoted an incident where a couple were sat enjoying their alfresco lunch outside a popular canal side pub, that's also located next to an Elsan point and a boater unloaded his sloshing cassette and dumped it on their table!

Now, whether you support 'pump-out' or cassette type storage of food processing or not, that sort of obnoxious behaviour would never happen with a pump-out system on board.

Round 3 anybody?

 

Yes we had a similar situation whilst someone tried to self pump out over the towpath and into the Elsan point. Can't beat the nice whiff of stale poo.