Washing Machines

[Peter009]

Thinking about getting a washing machine in the sales I know a lot of people recommend the compact ones but we do have space for a larger one does anyone have a larger washing machine that is good on energy consumption for their boat, I know they use a lot of power but the plan would be to hook up to shore power when we do the washing not when we are cruising but would still like an energy efficient one.

 

thanks 

[Movin' on]

Hi,

I suggest you buy the cheapest you can find as in our experience the retailers/manufacturers wont warranty them if used on a boat so the more you pay the greater your risk - do you mean DIRECT shore power or via an inverter/charger as you might have "constant load" issues with the programmer (so steer clear of Zanussi) - easily solved but others will explain more??

[Peter009]

3 minutes ago, Halsey said:

Hi,

I suggest you buy the cheapest you can find as in our experience the retailers/manufacturers wont warranty them if used on a boat so the more you pay the greater your risk - do you mean DIRECT shore power or via an inverter/charger as you might have "constant load" issues with the programmer (so steer clear of Zanussi) - easily solved but others will explain more??

Hi we have an inverter a victron one but we are thinking that we will do most of the washing when we have access to direct shore power so as to avoid draining the batteries.  What is the issue with Zanussi is it that they have issues with inverters

 

I dont really mind what make cheap is good as we just want something functional but wanted to check if a standard washing machine is fine if we have the space, we also wanted a tumble dryer but think that will seriously drain the batteries, unless on direct shore power.

 

Is there any special plumbing requirements with washing machines do you know how they are connected up to the water supply and waste would it be a separate waste outlet for the washing machine thanks

 

We have taken on a massive project with very little knowledge and money for that matter but I think we are getting there but on a massive learning curve !!

[Dr Bob]

I agree. Just go with the cheapest 'normal' one. On shore power no problem. We have a 2kw inverter which is ok to do a cold wash when on the move but the inverter trips if we do a hotter wash. A bigger inverter would work but then you use a lot of energy in the batteries that needs putting back in ( you have read all the battery threads about how not to wreck you batteries in 2 weeks..haven't you?). We therefore just pour hot water in the drum if we want a hotter wash. Others have rigged up a hot water feed to the machine that can be switched to cold water. There are a lot of threads on here about feeding hot water to a washing machine. Do a search.

Please let us know you are on top of the batteries.

[Phil Ambrose]

If you have the space ie the width go for a full size machine but seek out one which is shallow as in the depth or how far it sticks out.

As for plumbing we just teed off the existing supply in the galley and the drain was plumbed into the sink waste on one of our boats and on the other the waste was fitted to a dedicated skin fitting..

We have always used a tumble dryer for all the 40 years we've been married and did so for the 20 years we lived aboard. All fine when on shore power and when not a inverter genny coped OK, we use a 1.2kw IMPAX from Screwfix . We found a compact 4kg load dryer was just right for the two of us 

Never had wet washing hanging around the house and failed to see why we should do so on a boat 

The bonus of using a dryer is that all the condensation is vented outside and the clothes don't need ironing, just fold and put away.

Good luck with your project and enjoy the adventure 

Phil

Edited December 29, 2018 by Phil Ambrose

[Peter009]

11 minutes ago, Dr Bob said:

I agree. Just go with the cheapest 'normal' one. On shore power no problem. We have a 2kw inverter which is ok to do a cold wash when on the move but the inverter trips if we do a hotter wash. A bigger inverter would work but then you use a lot of energy in the batteries that needs putting back in ( you have read all the battery threads about how not to wreck you batteries in 2 weeks..haven't you?). We therefore just pour hot water in the drum if we want a hotter wash. Others have rigged up a hot water feed to the machine that can be switched to cold water. There are a lot of threads on here about feeding hot water to a washing machine. Do a search.

Please let us know you are on top of the batteries.

Great thanks, we have a victron multiplus 3000 VA we was lucky that it was with the boat when we brought it, we have 5 batteries and another one just for the engine we are going to add another 2 when we can afford it as we have space for it in the battery locker.

 

When you say on top of the batteries I am not sure I am to be honest we do have a fantastic marine electrician thankfully that sorted out all the power for us and is helping us along the way he knows the whole boat now and as we do each room he is going in and connecting everything, when I get to the boat I will take some pictures of the setup and post it here we also have a main switch section with all the different rooms, to turn on and off and there is one for the water pump, lights etc I think the electrics have been set up very well thankfully most of it was done before we brought the boat but was not connected, when we had the engine installed we then had all the batteries installed so we now have 12V and 240 plugs, we have a battery monitor as well.  Does that setup sound OK for the batteries ?

8 minutes ago, Phil Ambrose said:

If you have the space ie the width go for a full size machine but seek out one which is shallow as in the depth or how far it sticks out.

As for plumbing we just teed off the existing supply in the galley and the drain was plumbed into the sink waste on one of our boats and on the other the waste was fitted to a dedicated skin fitting..

We have always used a tumble dryer for all the 40 years we've been married and did so for the 20 years we lived aboard. All fine when on shore power and when not a inverter genny coped OK, we use a 1.2kw IMPAX from Screwfix . We found a compact 4kg load dryer was just right for the two of us 

Never had wet washing hanging around the house and failed to see why we should do so on a boat 

The bonus of using a dryer is that all the condensation is vented outside and the clothes don't need ironing, just fold and put away.

Good luck with your project and enjoy the adventure 

Phil

Thanks Phil we was going to get a white knight one from argos small and compact and a full size washing machine would work well with us and it is a lot cheaper than the compact ones which are ridiculous in price just because they are smaller 

[Alan de Enfield]

44 minutes ago, Peter009 said:

Hi we have an inverter a victron one but we are thinking that we will do most of the washing when we have access to direct shore power so as to avoid draining the batteries. 

I'm not sure if you are aware (apologies if you are) but there is not an 'abundance' of electricity points on the canals (in fact are there any for 'public' use ?) if you are only planning on using your washing machine when on 'mains hook-up' you will either not be doing much washing, or, you will be paying £15 per night (once a week ?) for the benefit of going into marina and getting some 'leccy.

 

Far better to be self sufficient and to make sure you have the means of supplying your own 'leccy. Ideally a generator of sufficient wattage to run the washing machine

But -

If your Victron inverter has the separate button / knob to control the hook-up power ( a dial showing 2-4-6-8-etc) then you can use a smallish generator and use the batteries to supply a 'top-up' with the Genny supplying the bulk.

 

The Victron control should look like this :

 

 

 

 

12 minutes ago, Peter009 said:

When you say on top of the batteries I am not sure I am to be honest

I think that DrBob actually meant "do you know how to look after them", as in when to charge them, for how long to charge them and when to stop charging them.

 

Are you aware that every time you use any 'battery electricity' it should be recharged immediately or you are reducing the life - as has been mentioned read up on 'how to kill you £1000 battery bank in 2 weeks' its very easy to do. 

 

The more batteries you have, the more it costs to replace them.

Edited December 29, 2018 by Alan de Enfield

[Dr Bob]

51 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

I think that DrBob actually meant "do you know how to look after them", as in when to charge them, for how long to charge them and when to stop charging them.

 

Yes Alan, exactly.

Peter, if you are unsure about charging then have a look at the following thread:

 

[Peter009]

5 minutes ago, Dr Bob said:

Yes Alan, exactly.

Peter, if you are unsure about charging then have a look at the following thread:

 

Brilliant thread have just put that with all my documentation on the maintenance of the boat thanks for this

[Peter009]

1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

I'm not sure if you are aware (apologies if you are) but there is not an 'abundance' of electricity points on the canals (in fact are there any for 'public' use ?) if you are only planning on using your washing machine when on 'mains hook-up' you will either not be doing much washing, or, you will be paying £15 per night (once a week ?) for the benefit of going into marina and getting some 'leccy.

 

Far better to be self sufficient and to make sure you have the means of supplying your own 'leccy. Ideally a generator of sufficient wattage to run the washing machine

But -

If your Victron inverter has the separate button / knob to control the hook-up power ( a dial showing 2-4-6-8-etc) then you can use a smallish generator and use the batteries to supply a 'top-up' with the Genny supplying the bulk.

 

The Victron control should look like this :

 

 

 

 

I think that DrBob actually meant "do you know how to look after them", as in when to charge them, for how long to charge them and when to stop charging them.

 

Are you aware that every time you use any 'battery electricity' it should be recharged immediately or you are reducing the life - as has been mentioned read up on 'how to kill you £1000 battery bank in 2 weeks' its very easy to do. 

 

The more batteries you have, the more it costs to replace them.

Hi thanks for this, I have just looked at the other thread and will go through it in more detail later it is a brilliant thread on batteries.  I think we will need to get a generator at some point as yet whilst cruising the batteries will be charging but we need to ensure that we dont ruin them.  So am I right that if the batteries run right down that can destroy them or does over charging do that, right now we are on hard standing so on shore power all the time and the batteries are always fully charged, we have 12 V lighting and a shoreline 12V fridge we will not be using much 240V as we want to gbet a 12V tv too we are trying to go as much 12V as possible with the boat.  We are also looking at Solar panels and want to be as self sufficient as possible.  Can you recommend a good generator at all that is not ridiculously expensive, money is not a luxury we have right now the boat has eaten most of our savings up so we are limited on what we can buy, thanks

[Peter009]

1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

I'm not sure if you are aware (apologies if you are) but there is not an 'abundance' of electricity points on the canals (in fact are there any for 'public' use ?) if you are only planning on using your washing machine when on 'mains hook-up' you will either not be doing much washing, or, you will be paying £15 per night (once a week ?) for the benefit of going into marina and getting some 'leccy.

 

Far better to be self sufficient and to make sure you have the means of supplying your own 'leccy. Ideally a generator of sufficient wattage to run the washing machine

But -

If your Victron inverter has the separate button / knob to control the hook-up power ( a dial showing 2-4-6-8-etc) then you can use a smallish generator and use the batteries to supply a 'top-up' with the Genny supplying the bulk.

 

The Victron control should look like this :

 

 

 

 

I think that DrBob actually meant "do you know how to look after them", as in when to charge them, for how long to charge them and when to stop charging them.

 

Are you aware that every time you use any 'battery electricity' it should be recharged immediately or you are reducing the life - as has been mentioned read up on 'how to kill you £1000 battery bank in 2 weeks' its very easy to do. 

 

The more batteries you have, the more it costs to replace them.

This is the inverter we have it has a lot of those functions but not the shore current limiter bit do we need that ?

 

https://www.victronenergy.com/inverters-chargers/multiplus-12v-24v-48v-800va-3kva

[Dr Bob]

19 minutes ago, Peter009 said:

 we want to gbet a 12V tv too we are trying to go as much 12V as possible with the boat. 

With a 3KV inverter, why bother with a 12V TV? 240V ones are much cheaper and better. We run the Tv plus satelite box plus BT youview box all on 240V. Our fridge is 240V and is a lot more efficient than a 12v one - and a lot cheaper. You dont need to go 12 v on everything. Coffee machine, hair dryer etc etc all 240V. We aren't camping.

[Movin' on]

2 hours ago, Peter009 said:

Hi we have an inverter a victron one but we are thinking that we will do most of the washing when we have access to direct shore power so as to avoid draining the batteries.  What is the issue with Zanussi is it that they have issues with inverters

 

I dont really mind what make cheap is good as we just want something functional but wanted to check if a standard washing machine is fine if we have the space, we also wanted a tumble dryer but think that will seriously drain the batteries, unless on direct shore power.

 

Is there any special plumbing requirements with washing machines do you know how they are connected up to the water supply and waste would it be a separate waste outlet for the washing machine thanks

 

We have taken on a massive project with very little knowledge and money for that matter but I think we are getting there but on a massive learning curve !!

I cant explain it technically there other threads of mine covering this - BUT the issue is something to do with maintaining an electrical load on the inverter/programmer relationship such that when the programmer switches through various stages it doesn't "fail" the solution IF you get the problem believe it or not is simply to have a 240v 60-100w light bulb on all the time the machine is running so not a major problem or cost, Zanussi seem to be more prone to this issue - if you are a techy person others may be able to explain better 

[Alan de Enfield]

39 minutes ago, Peter009 said:

So am I right that if the batteries run right down that can destroy them or does over charging do that,

Batteries control the rate of charge - as they 'fill up' they automatically reduce the amount they will take - IT IS NOT the battery charger that controls the charging - a 50 amp battery charger will NOTY put 50 amps into the batteries for more than a few minutes - as the batteries 'fill up' the charger will be forced to reduce its output to 40 - 30 - 20 - 10 amps.

 

batteries are killed by using them and then either not charging them or undercharging them and allowing them to sit partly charged.

 

There is really no difference between using 240v or 12v if the power is coming from your batteries - it all comes out and 'flattens' the batteries.

The only difference is the amount the inverter uses itself and the losses in making 12v up to 230v.

[Peter009]

8 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Batteries control the rate of charge - as they 'fill up' they automatically reduce the amount they will take - IT IS NOT the battery charger that controls the charging - a 50 amp battery charger will NOTY put 50 amps into the batteries for more than a few minutes - as the batteries 'fill up' the charger will be forced to reduce its output to 40 - 30 - 20 - 10 amps.

 

batteries are killed by using them and then either not charging them or undercharging them and allowing them to sit partly charged.

 

There is really no difference between using 240v or 12v if the power is coming from your batteries - it all comes out and 'flattens' the batteries.

The only difference is the amount the inverter uses itself and the losses in making 12v up to 230v.

Right I see that makes sense, I am going to look into a generator not sure which one to go for though I was told that a Honda 220 was good any thoughts on this one 

[NigelMoore]

Another issue to consider - condensing driers use massive amounts of your water supply.

[WotEver]

The simple rule of thumb regarding battery charging is that what comes out must go back in, plus a variable percentage (work on 20% to be safe). So if you use 200Ah then you have to replace 240Ah. If you don’t replace that 240Ah within a day or two you will have reduced the capacity of your batteries. This is the simple explanation without going into any detail. 

 

The other thing to bear in mind is that more batteries doesn’t simply mean more power. Batteries only store power, which you have to supply, whether that be from engine, generator, solar or shore. If you go shopping at the supermarket then you can either cram it all into two bags or you can share it around into 5 bags. It’s still the same amount of shopping. The advantage of having 5 bags comes at the time when you want to do a really big shop, but it costs you a load more. Okay, maybe not a great analogy but hopefully you’ll see where I’m going with it. 

15 minutes ago, NigelMoore said:

Another issue to consider - condensing driers use massive amounts of your water supply.

Depends on the dryer. Our condensing dryer at home uses no water at all, nor does it need to be vented outside. 

[blackrose]

2 hours ago, Peter009 said:

Hi we have an inverter a victron one but we are thinking that we will do most of the washing when we have access to direct shore power so as to avoid draining the batteries.  What is the issue with Zanussi is it that they have issues with inverters

 

I dont really mind what make cheap is good as we just want something functional but wanted to check if a standard washing machine is fine if we have the space, we also wanted a tumble dryer but think that will seriously drain the batteries, unless on direct shore power.

 

Well you're either running these appliances from the inverter/batteries or you're not. If you're running them from shore power then you don't have to worry about the dryer either. I've got a compact Zanussi 1600w washing machine and small White Knight dryer which draws about 1000w. I only use the dryer for sheets and duvet covers. I can run both appliances from the generator if I want to.

[WotEver]

21 minutes ago, Peter009 said:

Right I see that makes sense, I am going to look into a generator not sure which one to go for though I was told that a Honda 220 was good any thoughts on this one 

The Honda is the Rolls Royce standard. Cheaper ones are available but consider after sales service and spares availability. 

 

If considering a petrol genny have a good read of the BSS requirements on the storage of petrol. 

 

https://www.boatsafetyscheme.org/media/268789/ecp-private-boats-ed3_rev2_apr2015_public_final.pdf

[blackrose]

23 minutes ago, Peter009 said:

Right I see that makes sense, I am going to look into a generator not sure which one to go for though I was told that a Honda 220 was good any thoughts on this one 

You better start looking at the generator threads; storing petrol on boats, floating earth vs earth-neutral bonds, carbon monoxide, etc. It's a whole "nuther" can of worms.

[blackrose]

If you end up with a Honda EU20 which is the suitcase generator that a lot of people go for, or something similar, then your choice of washing machine will be limited to around 1600w maximum because that's the rated output of the generator. Most full size washing machines draw at least 2000w. Indeed many are 2.2 or 2.4kw. you might find a full size eco machine that only uses 1.6kw max but I'm not aware of any. In part that's why boaters tend to choose compact machines. It's not just about the physical size.

 

Edit: Once you start looking at bigger output generators they tend not to be suitcase type and therefore more difficult to move onto the bank to run or store on boats.

Edited December 29, 2018 by blackrose

[WotEver]

11 minutes ago, blackrose said:

If you end up with a Honda EU20 which is the suitcase generator that a lot of people go for, or something similar, then your choice of washing machine will be limited to around 1600w maximum because that's the rated output of the generator.

Note that OP’s inverter has power assist, so for the short time that the washing machine’s heater is operating the inverter can help from the batteries. The rest of the time the batteries will be charging. 

[Alan de Enfield]

7 minutes ago, blackrose said:

If you end up with a Honda EU20 which is the suitcase generator that a lot of people go for, or something similar, then your choice of washing machine will be limited to around 1600w maximum because that's the rated output of the generator

Which is where the Victron "Shore Current Limiter" comes into play - set the limiter to (say) 6 amps and draw that from the generator and then take the remaining (say) 3 or 4 amps from the batteries. It will only use the 'extra' 3 or 4 amps when heating the water, allowing the generator to provide more than sufficient power for the rest of the cycle.

 

Thus allowing you to run the 2.2Kw or even 2.4Kw washer.

1 hour ago, Peter009 said:

This is the inverter we have it has a lot of those functions but not the shore current limiter bit do we need that ?

Your Inverter has "Power Assist" which is a similar feature.

[pearley]

1 hour ago, Halsey said:

I cant explain it technically there other threads of mine covering this - BUT the issue is something to do with maintaining an electrical load on the inverter/programmer relationship such that when the programmer switches through various stages it doesn't "fail" the solution IF you get the problem believe it or not is simply to have a 240v 60-100w light bulb on all the time the machine is running so not a major problem or cost, Zanussi seem to be more prone to this issue - if you are a techy person others may be able to explain better 

That doesn't work for us. We've tried it with resistive loads ftom 100 watt up to 1000 watt and it doesn't make any difference.  Victron tell me it is due to something called grid detection in the Zanussi.

 

One of the earlier posts mentioned warranty on boats. John Lewis were happy to confirm that their warranty would still be honoured.

[blackrose]

43 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Which is where the Victron "Shore Current Limiter" comes into play - set the limiter to (say) 6 amps and draw that from the generator and then take the remaining (say) 3 or 4 amps from the batteries. It will only use the 'extra' 3 or 4 amps when heating the water, allowing the generator to provide more than sufficient power for the rest of the cycle.

 

Thus allowing you to run the 2.2Kw or even 2.4Kw washer.

Your Inverter has "Power Assist" which is a similar feature.

 

I don't have those features on my basic 1800w inverter, however I can think of much better uses of my batteries than heating water for washing. I know people do run washing machines from their inverters but most will be running their engines at the same time to avoid draining the batteries. So are you suggesting running the generator and the boat engine at the same time? If so that would seem like a rather noisy, fuel-hungry and frankly inefficient set up just to do a bit of washing.