Washing Machines

[Alan de Enfield]

10 minutes ago, blackrose said:

So are you suggesting running the generator and the boat engine at the same time?

No.

 

The 'power assist' will only be running for a small proportion of the time (say) 15 minutes of a 1 hour cycle time.

The other 45 minutes the generator is putting out enough power to run the battery charger & the washing machine, at times of peak-load the battery charger is automatically disconnected and then re-connected as the load drops.

Over the (say) 45 minute cycle the battery charger will be replacing (probably) more into the batteries than it has used for the power assist.

 

From the Victron data sheet on the OPs inverter/charger :

 

Unique PowerAssist feature

The MultiPlus will prevent overload of a limited AC source, such as a generator or shore power connection. First, battery charging will automatically be reduced when otherwise an overload would occur. The second level will boost the output of a generator or shore side supply with power taken from the battery.

Edited December 29, 2018 by Alan de Enfield

[blackrose]

I see. It certainly sounds like a solution. Personally I prefer a simpler setup on a boat.

[WotEver]

8 minutes ago, blackrose said:

I see. It certainly sounds like a solution. Personally I prefer a simpler setup on a boat.

Nevertheless, it’s what OP already has, so getting back to the point, an EU20i will be fine for him when running any washing machine. 

[Peter009]

15 minutes ago, WotEver said:

Nevertheless, it’s what OP already has, so getting back to the point, an EU20i will be fine for him when running any washing machine. 

Might be even better than that someone that a friend of mine knows has an EU30i that he wants to get rid off as he has only used it for about 10 hours and it is sitting in his garage so I might get lucky and get that for less than the 20i that would be a good christmas present for the boat and could run so much power and would fit in the engine bay fingers crossed✌️

[blackrose]

17 minutes ago, WotEver said:

Nevertheless, it’s what OP already has, so getting back to the point, an EU20i will be fine for him when running any washing machine. 

 

Yes, but only as long as he fully understand all the safety implications of storing a petrol generator on a boat and using it to run an entire mains system. 

[Alan de Enfield]

Just now, Peter009 said:

and would fit in the engine bay fingers crossed✌️

Don't forget that you cannot run it in the engine compartment - you need to lift it off the boat and onto the 'shore' ensuring that it is downwind of your boat.

At 61 kgs its not something you can lift out by yourself.

 

Read up about the use of petrol generators on board, AND, the storage of petrol on board. (The legislation is very strict)

[blackrose]

3 minutes ago, Peter009 said:

Might be even better than that someone that a friend of mine knows has an EU30i that he wants to get rid off as he has only used it for about 10 hours and it is sitting in his garage so I might get lucky and get that for less than the 20i that would be a good christmas present for the boat and could run so much power and would fit in the engine bay fingers crossed✌️

 

WRONG! DO YOUR RESEARCH FIRST!

1 minute ago, blackrose said:

 

Yes, but only as long as he fully understand all the safety implications of storing a petrol generator on a boat and using it to run an entire mains system. 

Which as yet he obviously does not!

[Peter009]

1 minute ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Don't forget that you cannot run it in the engine compartment - you need to lift it off the boat and onto the 'shore' ensuring that it is downwind of your boat.

At 61 kgs its not something you can lift out by yourself.

 

Read up about the use of petrol generators on board, AND, the storage of petrol on board. (The legislation is very strict)

Right again lack of knowledge if it is empty can it be stored in the engine bay or not at all, just thinking that it could be kept on the deck locked up of course ?  also it is 35kgs

[blackrose]

Peter, not only can you not run a petrol generator in your engine space, you can't store it down there either (at least not if it's got even a tiny bit of petrol left in it). Likewise you can't store petrol in cans in that space.

 

You really do need to read up on the subject before even thinking about buying one.

 

I have a Honda EU30is (not the latest model) It weighs 67kg.

 

Edit: Sorry, 61kg

 

https://www.justgenerators.co.uk/honda-generators/honda-eu30is-generator.html

 

You must be talking about the latest model - 35kg

 

https://www.justgenerators.co.uk/honda-generators/honda-handy-eu30i-generator.html

Edited December 29, 2018 by blackrose

[Alan de Enfield]

2 minutes ago, Peter009 said:

Right again lack of knowledge if it is empty can it be stored in the engine bay or not at all, just thinking that it could be kept on the deck locked up of course ?  also it is 35kgs

In which case - apologies, but the one I looked at is listed as 61 kgs

Maybe a different version ?

 

https://www.lineonline.co.uk/3-kw-honda-eu-30is-inverter-power-generator.html?fee=51&fep=42869&gclid=Cj0KCQiA05zhBRCMARIsACKDWjenEi8uJ7l4zPIoUD3aSurLWIKEf5-mOKx6unnEph1F5vcb367LD2EaAo2MEALw_wcB

 

Compare the noise levels with a 2.0I

 

3.0I is 91db (Jet engine noise level) vs a 2.0I 52db (car engine or less)

[Peter009]

3 minutes ago, blackrose said:

Peter, not only can you not run a petrol generator in your engine space, you can't store it down there either (at least not if it's got even a tiny bit of petrol left in it). Likewise you can't store petrol in cans in that space.

 

You really do need to read up on the subject before even thinking about buying one.

 

I have a Honda EU30is (not the latest model) It weighs 67kg.

 

Edit: Sorry, 61kg

 

https://www.justgenerators.co.uk/honda-generators/honda-eu30is-generator.html

Hi yes just been reading up on that.  So if you are away and not using the boat where is a safe place to store it obviously with no petrol in it, we dont have a back deck cover or anything what do you do is it permanently on the tow path ?

 

13 minutes ago, blackrose said:

 

WRONG! DO YOUR RESEARCH FIRST!

Which as yet he obviously does not!

No I dont which is why I am looking it up now I have not brought it yet ....sorry but please do not have a go at me for lack of knowledge that is why I am here I have done nothing wrong but ask questions and take advice thanks 

[Alan de Enfield]

4 minutes ago, Peter009 said:

Hi yes just been reading up on that.  So if you are away and not using the boat where is a safe place to store it obviously with no petrol in it, we dont have a back deck cover or anything what do you do is it permanently on the tow path ?

 

 

You need to construct a suitable external locker with a 'drain' that runs overboard (as per the gas bottle drain)

It is not so much the petrol that is dangerous but the petrol vapour that remains in the tank when the tank / carb is 'empty' so in effect your generator is never safe to leave or use on or in the boat.

[blackrose]

5 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

In which case - apologies, but the one I looked at is listed as 61 kgs

Maybe a different version ?

 

https://www.lineonline.co.uk/3-kw-honda-eu-30is-inverter-power-generator.html?fee=51&fep=42869&gclid=Cj0KCQiA05zhBRCMARIsACKDWjenEi8uJ7l4zPIoUD3aSurLWIKEf5-mOKx6unnEph1F5vcb367LD2EaAo2MEALw_wcB

 

Compare the noise levels with a 2.0I

 

3.0I is 91db (Jet engine noise level) vs a 2.0I 52db (car engine or less)

 

Not sure how they are getting 91dB?

 

It's 47dB at 1/4 load at 7m which is quieter than the EU20i (52dB at 1/4 load at 7m)

 

https://www.justgenerators.co.uk/honda-generators/honda-eu30is-generator.html

 

https://www.justgenerators.co.uk/honda-generators/honda-eu30is-generator.html

 

 

[Alan de Enfield]

1 minute ago, blackrose said:

Not sure how they are getting 91dB?

Neither do I (and I have no user knowledge of them as I have a 2.0i) so I can only quote the website figures.

 

 

[Peter009]

5 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

You need to construct a suitable external locker with a 'drain' that runs overboard (as per the gas bottle drain)

It is not so much the petrol that is dangerous but the petrol vapour that remains in the tank when the tank / carb is 'empty' so in effect your generator is never safe to leave or use on or in the boat.

Right yes of course now I understand maybe a better option is diesel ?  I did like the idea of the honda as it also uses LPG but safety is a number one priority at all times and not taking any risks with this so will be doing more research before buying anything 

[blackrose]

15 minutes ago, Peter009 said:

Hi yes just been reading up on that.  So if you are away and not using the boat where is a safe place to store it obviously with no petrol in it, we dont have a back deck cover or anything what do you do is it permanently on the tow path ?

 

 

This is what I do Peter, but it's not recommended and I'm not recommending it.

 

Yes I do run it onboard and I take great care when refueling. I wouldn't do that on a narrowboat but my stern deck is 12ft wide so it's far enough away from the vents in the stern doors and the engine side of the locker is a solid aluminium sheet.  I take the generator out of the locker every 4 years when the inspector comes...

 

The point here is to be aware of what you're doing - there is a risk and you need to be aware of it.

 

3 minutes ago, Peter009 said:

Right yes of course now I understand maybe a better option is diesel ?  I did like the idea of the honda as it also uses LPG but safety is a number one priority at all times and not taking any risks with this so will be doing more research before buying anything 

An onboard diesel is the way to go if you can afford it.

 

https://www.northern-lights.com/m673ld3-54-5-kw/

 

Add a grand or two to install it.

 

 

Edited December 29, 2018 by blackrose

[Peter009]

4 minutes ago, blackrose said:

 

This is what I do Peter, but it's not recommended and I'm not recommending it.

 

Yes I do run it onboard and I take great care when refueling. I wouldn't do that on a narrowboat but my stern deck is 12ft wide so it's far enough away from the vents in the stern doors and the engine side of the locker is a solid aluminium sheet.  I take the generator out of the locker every 4 years when the inspector comes...

 

The point here is to be aware of what you're doing - there is a risk and you need to be aware of it.

 

An onboard diesel is the way to go if you can afford it.

 

https://www.northern-lights.com/m673ld3-54-5-kw/

 

Add a grand or two to install it.

 

 

So you have a widebeam ?  we do too 12 foot wide.  So in effect you have created a sort of cage for it that is at the back of the deck we could potentially do that, we also have an aluminium engine cover cover that we have had locks fitted into it looks similar to your deck is your engine housed on that deck ?  here some pics of our back deck 

[Peter009]

15 minutes ago, blackrose said:

 

This is what I do Peter, but it's not recommended and I'm not recommending it.

 

Yes I do run it onboard and I take great care when refueling. I wouldn't do that on a narrowboat but my stern deck is 12ft wide so it's far enough away from the vents in the stern doors and the engine side of the locker is a solid aluminium sheet.  I take the generator out of the locker every 4 years when the inspector comes...

 

The point here is to be aware of what you're doing - there is a risk and you need to be aware of it.

 

An onboard diesel is the way to go if you can afford it.

 

https://www.northern-lights.com/m673ld3-54-5-kw/

 

Add a grand or two to install it.

 

 

If we were to go for an onboard diesel generator are we allowed and is it safe to keep that in the engine bay if so we are going that way and will research diesel generators safety is always a priority with us and we wont take any risks at all with the boat or other boats safety near us 

[blackrose]

12 minutes ago, Peter009 said:

So you have a widebeam ?  we do too 12 foot wide.  So in effect you have created a sort of cage for it that is at the back of the deck we could potentially do that, we also have an aluminium engine cover cover that we have had locks fitted into it looks similar to your deck is your engine housed on that deck ?  here some pics of our back deck 

 

 

Yes, I have a widebeam. Been living on it since the summer of 2005. Who built your boat?

 

Aluminium engine cover - you mean aluminium deck boards? My engine is in the usual place - under the boards.

 

 

3 minutes ago, Peter009 said:

If we were to go for an onboard diesel generator are we allowed and is it safe to keep that in the engine bay

Yes - as long as it's properly installed.

 

That one I posted the link to would be my preferred option if money was no object. I think it's about £5k. It runs at 1500rpm so quieter compared to 3000rpm models from some other manufacturers. Also that means less frequent servicing intervals.

Edited December 29, 2018 by blackrose

[Peter009]

7 minutes ago, blackrose said:

 

Yes, I have a widebeam. Been living on it since the summer of 2005. Who built your boat?

 

Aluminium engine cover - you mean aluminium deck boards? My engine is in the usual place - under the boards.

 

 

Yes - as long as it's properly installed.

 

That one I posted the link to would be my preferred option if money was no object. I think it's about £5k. It runs at 1500rpm so quieter compared to 3000rpm models from some other manufacturers. Also that means less frequent servicing intervals.

Our boat is a cuttwater I think they are now called Yorkshire Boat Builders, it has a large back deck which we will one day put some sort of seating on and a cover when we can afford it.  I finished the paintwork last summer still got some more to do with the paint but run out of time with the weather going to add some colourful detail to it when the weather improves but she is snow white with black detail currently  heres a couple of pics, the windows are in now obviously

[WotEver]

1 hour ago, blackrose said:

 

Yes, but only as long as he fully understand all the safety implications of storing a petrol generator on a boat and using it to run an entire mains system. 

Yes indeed, which is why I gave him the link to the BSS regs. He’s asking questions and getting there slowly. 

[Alan de Enfield]

25 minutes ago, Peter009 said:

f we were to go for an onboard diesel generator are we allowed and is it safe to keep that in the engine bay if so we are going that way and will research diesel generators

You are looking at well towards £10,000 by the time you have bought the generator £5-7k, + £2k for the marine installation kit (special water pick-ups and exhaust system) + £1k+ to cut holes in the bottom of the boat for water in & exhaust out) and general installation.

The generators will fit almost anywhere being only about 18"-24" 'cube'.

 

Entirely safe to install in your engine room if done properly.

 

As you have suggested that money is 'tight' then I'd suggest getting a Honda 2.0I (or slightly cheaper equivalent) and learn how to use it and store it safely.

 

Edit to add :

I have the Kipor 2000, very similar to the Honda 2.0i (allegedly built in the same factory using the same components and just re-badged)

Comes in a couple of hundred pounds less than the Honda - can be picked up 2nd hand for £300-£400 quite easily.

Edited December 29, 2018 by Alan de Enfield

[WotEver]

41 minutes ago, blackrose said:

An onboard diesel is the way to go if you can afford it.

 

https://www.northern-lights.com/m673ld3-54-5-kw/

 

Add a grand or two to install it.

Yep, absolutely this. 

If you can afford it. 

[Peter009]

Just now, Alan de Enfield said:

You are looking at well towards £10,000 by the time you have bought the generator £5-7k, + £2k for the marine installation kit (special water pick-ups and exhaust system) + £1k+ to cut holes in the bottom of the boat for water in & exhaust out) and general installation.

The generators will fit almost anywhere being only about 18"-24" 'cube'.

 

Entirely safe to install in your engine room if done properly.

 

As you have suggested that money is 'tight' then I'd suggest getting a Honda 2.0I (or slightly cheaper equivalent) and learn how to use it and store it safely.

Thanks alan I might go for the 20i but really need to look into where I can keep it, I think I will leave the generator for now though as the priority is getting the boat finished so we can live in it, it is something that I am thinking about but money as always is an issue I think that is the case for most people with boats though until they are finished and can actually live in them

[WotEver]

1 minute ago, Peter009 said:

money as always is an issue I think that is the case for most people with boats though until they are finished and can actually live in them

Don’t think it’ll ever stop. It won’t