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Electric boats - the future???


MJG

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14 minutes ago, Loddon said:

Will that be like the old caraboat so can be used on water as well😄

 

Tesla's new cyber-truck can tow up to 14,500+ lbs depending on version.

 

Towing range 125 miles.

 

Tesla Cybertruck - What Can It Tow? (electrictowcars.co.uk)

 

The cheapest model which is the Single Motor/RWD will be able to tow 7,500+ lbs. The next step up will be the Dual Motor/AWD variant with a towing capacity of 10,000+ lbs. With the highest specification currently announced being the Tri-Motor/AWD with a towing capacity of 14,000+ lbs. The use of the + symbol by Tesla is interesting, as it implies the vehicles could very well exceed those tow ratings. We will just have to wait and see to find out if that’s the case.

 

Tesla Cybertruck Towing

Edited by Alan de Enfield
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1 minute ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Tesla's new cyber-truck can tow up to 14,500+ lbs depending on version.

 

Tesla Cybertruck - What Can It Tow? (electrictowcars.co.uk)

 

Tesla Cybertruck Towing

 

ahh, the vapourware truck... Tesla has a backlog of over 1.2 million Cybertruck reservations worth over $80 billion, but there’s still no production in sight. Was supposed to be released late 2021 (which is sort of now) but is now slated for late 2022

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Just now, StephenA said:

 

ahh, the vapourware truck... Tesla has a backlog of over 1.2 million Cybertruck reservations worth over $80 billion, but there’s still no production in sight. Was supposed to be released late 2021 (which is sort of now) but is now slated for late 2022

 

If you cannot get the Tesla, you could always try an Electrivc Humvee the Bollinger or a Rivian - all seem to be in 'early days' and are relying on early adopters to buy.

 

I am carefully monitoring the towing capability of E-vehicles as it is an important part of our lifestyle :

 

GMC Hummer EV - What Can It Tow? (electrictowcars.co.uk)

 

Bollinger B1 & B2 – What Can They Tow? (electrictowcars.co.uk)

 

Rivian R1S – What Can It Tow? (electrictowcars.co.uk)

 

 

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6 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

If you cannot get the Tesla, you could always try an Electrivc Humvee the Bollinger or a Rivian - all seem to be in 'early days' and are relying on early adopters to buy.

 

I am carefully monitoring the towing capability of E-vehicles as it is an important part of our lifestyle :

 

GMC Hummer EV - What Can It Tow? (electrictowcars.co.uk)

 

Bollinger B1 & B2 – What Can They Tow? (electrictowcars.co.uk)

 

Rivian R1S – What Can It Tow? (electrictowcars.co.uk)

 

 

I will probably be dead before any of those get cheap enough to be within my budget.

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1 hour ago, peterboat said:

Problem is Julian the government doesn't care and as time goes on less and less people can tow. Electric campervan will be a reality so no towing required 

 

Not quite as black and white as that Peter.

 

If you follow what car makers are doing along with what Caravan manufacturers are doing like I do you will see that the days of towing are far from dead.

 

Small lighter caravans, self propelling caravans and folders are all being developed.

 

They just need to tackle the 'impact on range' when towing issue and sanity will be restored.

 

There is currently a number of BEV's that can tow our 1500kg 'van today, but currently they are out of my price range at the mo.

 

Not everybody wants to spend their hols crammed into the back of a Ford Transit.

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1 minute ago, Loddon said:

I will probably be dead before any of those get cheap enough to be within my budget.

 

And me - I could buy one, but it would be a waste - I am not prepared to buy a £80k+ car and leave it parked 'at the side of the sea' for 5 or 6 months of the year, or go driving 'cross country' (wet-muddy fields with a 3 tonne trailer on the back) with one.

 That's why I have a rusty Mercedes Diesel 4WD that cost about £2.5k 3 or 4 yrs ago.

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54 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

And me - I could buy one, but it would be a waste - I am not prepared to buy a £80k+ car and leave it parked 'at the side of the sea' for 5 or 6 months of the year, or go driving 'cross country' (wet-muddy fields with a 3 tonne trailer on the back) with one.

 That's why I have a rusty Mercedes Diesel 4WD that cost about £2.5k 3 or 4 yrs ago.

So you'll both wait unit they are cheap enough on the secondhand market, which probably means at least 10 years going by those prices. Until then, stick with what you've got 😉

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1 hour ago, IanD said:

So you'll both wait unit they are cheap enough on the secondhand market, which probably means at least 10 years going by those prices. Until then, stick with what you've got 😉

I will probably be dead before any of those get cheap enough to be within my budget.
 
https://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php?/topic/98568-electric-boats-the-future/&do=findComment&comment=2717693

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5 hours ago, nicknorman said:

Do you mean less and less(sic) people are qualified /licensed to tow? If so the law is changing imminently to allow anyone to tow a trailer up to 3.5tonnes.

 

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/new-rules-for-towing-a-trailer-or-caravan-with-a-car-from-autumn-2021

 Anyway, an electric camper van will be no help with my glider.

I saw that the other day in a paper and thought it was a mistake! Clearly we are dropping EU rules, I just looked at the current rules which a mate of mine fell foul of 

4 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

If you cannot get the Tesla, you could always try an Electrivc Humvee the Bollinger or a Rivian - all seem to be in 'early days' and are relying on early adopters to buy.

 

I am carefully monitoring the towing capability of E-vehicles as it is an important part of our lifestyle :

 

GMC Hummer EV - What Can It Tow? (electrictowcars.co.uk)

 

Bollinger B1 & B2 – What Can They Tow? (electrictowcars.co.uk)

 

Rivian R1S – What Can It Tow? (electrictowcars.co.uk)

 

 

Fords F1 lightning is electric with good towing capacity as well 

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10 minutes ago, peterboat said:

I saw that the other day in a paper and thought it was a mistake! Clearly we are dropping EU rules, I just looked at the current rules which a mate of mine fell foul of 

Fords F1 lightning is electric with good towing capacity as well 

 

My stepson has an F150 - it's a crock. Unless they've really turned their game around the electric version is going to be a money pit.

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20 minutes ago, StephenA said:

 

My stepson has an F150 - it's a crock. Unless they've really turned their game around the electric version is going to be a money pit.

I am surprised that USAs best selling pickup truck is a crock, I have converted a few to LPG and found them to be well made

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/01/08/pickup-trucks-dominate-americas-10-best-selling-vehicles-of-2020.html

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1 hour ago, peterboat said:

I am surprised that USAs best selling pickup truck is a crock, I have converted a few to LPG and found them to be well made

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/01/08/pickup-trucks-dominate-americas-10-best-selling-vehicles-of-2020.html

 

The vacuum driven driveshaft clutches on the front wheels were a brilliant idea but just badly implemented.  The rear leaf springs split a bit too often,  the rear open section rusted through in a few places and the brakes seem to be a continual source of pain and there's been quite a few problems with the exhaust manifolds He also had quite a few electrical gremlins - like parts of the dashboard failing.  Despite that he still likes it.

Edited by StephenA
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  • 4 weeks later...
On 22/11/2021 at 11:17, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Many moons ago I worked for a cable manufacturer and we supplied 'Split Concentric Street Lighting cable' (which ran along the street and each street light was spurred off) and it was only 6mm2 conductor, which depending on specification used gives a rating between ~30 to 46 amps.

If a convenient 'domestic supply' was available in the street then the street lights are spurred of that using the Split-Concentric cable.

 

 

So from that, most street lights have a cable going into them which can support 7kW or more? Pending the rest of the network holding up.

 

Obviously if multiple lamps are running from a single cable that drops, but it they are going to the main domestic supply, happy days....

 

 

 

 

 

On 22/11/2021 at 11:21, IanD said:

And urban ones -- why run a separate mains feed for the streetlights when they sit next to the cable running the 3-phase mains down the street?

Of cause.

 

The lights in my parents street are just jumped across the cables running post to post down the road, with what appears to be 3ft of not very thick twin and earth!

 

 

 

 

 

 

On 24/11/2021 at 21:38, matty40s said:

Absolutely not. My other half was called to mid Scotland a couple of weeks ago......   so thought sideways booked her flights from Luton/Edinburgh return(£49), and a low impact car hire for a single day.

Train not a viable option? Cost too much?

 

 

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On 25/11/2021 at 18:44, peterboat said:

I am surprised that USAs best selling pickup truck is a crock, I have converted a few to LPG and found them to be well made

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/01/08/pickup-trucks-dominate-americas-10-best-selling-vehicles-of-2020.html

Having worked with American engineers, and seen what they considered good/acceptable/sensible, I am less surprised! 

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On 25/11/2021 at 18:44, peterboat said:

I am surprised that USAs best selling pickup truck is a crock, I have converted a few to LPG and found them to be well made

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/01/08/pickup-trucks-dominate-americas-10-best-selling-vehicles-of-2020.html

Pickup trucks are simpler and cheaper to make and have bigger profit margins than cars, so the manufacturers *really* like them. And they fit with the self-image of a lot of Americans, just like 4x4s fit with the self-image of a lot of Brits, so lots of people buy them.

 

Mostly they drive around on urban roads with one or sometimes two people in them, just like 4x4s in the UK. That's speaking as somebody who's spent a fair amount of time in the USA, not just a keyboard warrior who thinks pickups are mostly stupid.

 

Yes of course there are some people who us them "as intended" (and shown in the adverts), just like 4x4s here. But they're vastly outnumbered by those who don't...

 

And before somebody chimes in and says "but I *need* a 4x4 to get to my remote farm in the winter" -- ask yourself why the UK (especially in cities like London) is the biggest 4x4 market in Europe, not places like Scandinavia or Germany or Austria which are *far* more likely to *need* them?

 

The answer is image, and indirectly the British monarchy -- it all started when Princess Anne and the rest of the royal family bought Range Rovers and the huntin' shootin' fishin' set adopted them -- rightly so, the originals were better cross-country than Land Rovers and had plastic seats and rubber mats, and were less like a tractor on the road. Then other well-off people took to them, and then the general public aspired to the image and bought them in droves, and now they're purely bought for image -- hence the big alloy wheels, plush carpets and leather seats and luxury interiors . More than 90% of them have *never* been off-road in their lives and never will do.

 

Meanwhile the rise of 4x4s and SUVs has reversed the CO2 savings from improved vehicle design because they're bigger and heavier... 😞

Edited by IanD
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21 hours ago, IanD said:

Pickup trucks are simpler and cheaper to make and have bigger profit margins than cars, so the manufacturers *really* like them. And they fit with the self-image of a lot of Americans, just like 4x4s fit with the self-image of a lot of Brits, so lots of people buy them.

 

Mostly they drive around on urban roads with one or sometimes two people in them, just like 4x4s in the UK. That's speaking as somebody who's spent a fair amount of time in the USA, not just a keyboard warrior who thinks pickups are mostly stupid.

 

Yes of course there are some people who us them "as intended" (and shown in the adverts), just like 4x4s here. But they're vastly outnumbered by those who don't...

 

And before somebody chimes in and says "but I *need* a 4x4 to get to my remote farm in the winter" -- ask yourself why the UK (especially in cities like London) is the biggest 4x4 market in Europe, not places like Scandinavia or Germany or Austria which are *far* more likely to *need* them?

 

The answer is image, and indirectly the British monarchy -- it all started when Princess Anne and the rest of the royal family bought Range Rovers and the huntin' shootin' fishin' set adopted them -- rightly so, the originals were better cross-country than Land Rovers and had plastic seats and rubber mats, and were less like a tractor on the road. Then other well-off people took to them, and then the general public aspired to the image and bought them in droves, and now they're purely bought for image -- hence the big alloy wheels, plush carpets and leather seats and luxury interiors . More than 90% of them have *never* been off-road in their lives and never will do.

 

Meanwhile the rise of 4x4s and SUVs has reversed the CO2 savings from improved vehicle design because they're bigger and heavier... 😞

 

Exactly!!

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Spoke with a electric boat owner a little while back and he said the battery pack which is Lithium cost him wait for it £40k, now if they last for 8 years that’s £5k a year replacement cost even if lithium cost drop by 50% bearing in mind the demand from the auto industry that’s still £2.5 k a year plus a diesel generator running costs so please where is the up side of going electric I ask myself. Also told me that he can get a day’s cruising on a charge well dipper-de-do for that money I would want a lot more than that. So me I will stick with my 4 pot oil burner with 6000 hrs on the clock and still runs sweet as, oil change every 250 hours g/box every 500 hours together with fuel filter. Air filter is K&N so wash once every 6 months so that’s me done for routine maintenance. Lot cheaper than electric that’s for sure. 

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16 minutes ago, Oddjob said:

Spoke with a electric boat owner a little while back and he said the battery pack which is Lithium cost him wait for it £40k, now if they last for 8 years that’s £5k a year replacement cost even if lithium cost drop by 50% bearing in mind the demand from the auto industry that’s still £2.5 k a year plus a diesel generator running costs so please where is the up side of going electric I ask myself. Also told me that he can get a day’s cruising on a charge well dipper-de-do for that money I would want a lot more than that. So me I will stick with my 4 pot oil burner with 6000 hrs on the clock and still runs sweet as, oil change every 250 hours g/box every 500 hours together with fuel filter. Air filter is K&N so wash once every 6 months so that’s me done for routine maintenance. Lot cheaper than electric that’s for sure. 

Alternatively I bought 36kwhs of LifePo4s for 2.5k secondhand, I have 4.6kw of solar and a secondhand 6kw genny that cost 1300 squids. Everything can be done on a budget as long as you have the knowledge and skills to do it 

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28 minutes ago, peterboat said:

Alternatively I bought 36kwhs of LifePo4s for 2.5k secondhand, I have 4.6kw of solar and a secondhand 6kw genny that cost 1300 squids. Everything can be done on a budget as long as you have the knowledge and skills to do it 

Which is fine if electric boating is to remain an activity partaken of by the keen DIYer and the very well off, but @Oddjob's observations will have to be addressed if electric boating is to go mainstream.

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33 minutes ago, David Mack said:

Which is fine if electric boating is to remain an activity partaken of by the keen DIYer and the very well off, but @Oddjob's observations will have to be addressed if electric boating is to go mainstream.

Indeed the cost will have to come down, just like with BEVs -- batteries are much cheaper nowadays and the cost is still dropping, the next biggest cost is the onboard generator which is needed because there are no charging points and solar can't provide enough power, especially in winter. As long as this remains the case, electric/hybrid boats will be an expensive luxury for those with deep pockets who are willing to pay a big premium for silent cruising -- and a greener solution if this is of concern, though in the big UK-size scale of things canal boats have negligible impact on CO2 emissions (about 1% of cars).

 

"But I can do it cheaper myself using secondhand gear" says Peter -- true, but it still costs a lot more than a secondhand diesel if cost is what matters.

 

If CART ever get round to installing network-wide charging points then all this will change, just like it's changing for BEV on the roads. But this probably needs a properly thought-out strategy and financial backing from the government, which seems very unlikely at present -- especially given their recent retreat on legislating for installation of BEV charging points because some businesses (they won't say who) whinged about the cost...

Edited by IanD
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24 minutes ago, David Mack said:

Which is fine if electric boating is to remain an activity partaken of by the keen DIYer and the very well off, but @Oddjob's observations will have to be addressed if electric boating is to go mainstream.

We won't have a choice unless HVO becomes the norm, I use it for my genny but at the time it was a similar price to red diesel especially in bulk. The problem is people think we can decide but in truth its going to be taken out of our hands, for most of us it might not be an issue because of age, but younger boaters won't have a choice. I have jumped because it wasn't that costly for me and my engine was modern and sold easily, the reduction in license fee was nearly 250 squids a year and the extra solar massively extends my self sufficiency from fossil fuels. 

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1 minute ago, IanD said:

Indeed the cost will have to come down, just like with BEVs -- batteries are much cheaper nowadays and the cost is still dropping, the next biggest cost is the onboard generator which is needed because there are no charging points and solar can't provide enough power, especially in winter. As long as this remains the case, electric/hybrid boats will be an expensive luxury for those with deep pockets who are willing to pay a big premium for silent cruising -- and a greener solution if this is of concern, though in the big UK-size scale of things canal boats have negligible impact on CO2 emissions (about 1% of cars).

 

"But I can do it cheaper myself using secondhand gear" says Peter -- true, but it still costs more than a secondhand diesel if cost it what matters.

 

If CART ever get round to installing network-wide charging points then all this will change, just like it's changing for BEV on the roads. But this probably needs a properly thought-out strategy and financial backing from the government, which seems very unlikely at present -- especially given their recent retreat on legislating for installation of BEV charging points because some businesses (they won't say who) whinged about the cost...

I agree with you Ian, I am lucky having the knowledge to do it and contracts needed for the equipment. Strangely my bit of canal has a number of power points on it, whether they could be increased I don't know? If I couldn't have done the conversion myself I would still have a diesel powering the boat. 

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7 minutes ago, peterboat said:

We won't have a choice unless HVO becomes the norm, I use it for my genny but at the time it was a similar price to red diesel especially in bulk. The problem is people think we can decide but in truth its going to be taken out of our hands, for most of us it might not be an issue because of age, but younger boaters won't have a choice. I have jumped because it wasn't that costly for me and my engine was modern and sold easily, the reduction in license fee was nearly 250 squids a year and the extra solar massively extends my self sufficiency from fossil fuels. 

HVO is likely to become the norm for both diesel and electric/hybrid boats. The fuel saving with a hybrid will take a very long time to pay back the installation cost, if it ever does, especially with new kit not S/H.

 

Solar helps you a lot because you've got a massive array (5kWp?) on a wideboat and don't travel much; this isn't the case for most narrowboats, especially "real" CCers. I reckoned that for a CCing narrowboat solar might provide half the total required power in summer and maybe 10% in winter, meaning the generator has to provide 50% in summer and 90% in winter. If you're moored than then solar can do maybe 100%/20% leaving 0%/80% for the genny -- so no HVO use in summer, but still a fair bit in the winter.

Edited by IanD
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2 minutes ago, peterboat said:

I agree with you Ian, I am lucky having the knowledge to do it and contracts needed for the equipment. Strangely my bit of canal has a number of power points on it, whether they could be increased I don't know? If I couldn't have done the conversion myself I would still have a diesel powering the boat. 

Providing recharging points need not be difficult or particularly expensive -- especially compared to what the roads need -- but it does need government action to make it happen. For example they could legislate to make any company spending money installing road BEV chargers to put (for example) 1% of the sum towards funding for a canal charging network; this would make negligible difference to the road charger economics but would easily pay for the canalside chargers needed. But if they don't care (and CART have little influence) it won't happen... 😞

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