Dlsplaying paper licence

[TheBiscuits]

4 hours ago, Robbo said:

The thing with this paper license is that there is no security features in it, I can easily reproduce one.  So the fact that you have a paper license in your window proves absolutely nothing.

So you just guess the system reference number do you?  And make sure it is the same one that appears on the licence checker's handheld computer?

 

That's quite impressive.  How do you know what to put?

[Clodi]

1 minute ago, TheBiscuits said:

So you just guess the system reference number do you?  And make sure it is the same one that appears on the licence checker's handheld computer?

 

That's quite impressive.  How do you know what to put?

That's easy you just blur that out with condensation. If they've got a handheld computer surely they can see from the boat movement logs which vessels are licence so needn't waste any time checking legit boats

[TheBiscuits]

4 minutes ago, Clodi said:

That's easy you just blur that out with condensation. If they've got a handheld computer surely they can see from the boat movement logs which vessels are licence so needn't waste any time checking legit boats

Maybe so, but if the computer does not think you have a valid licence they might look a little closer.

 

If you have got a valid licence, you can always hand-write it in marker pen to really wind up the grumpies.

[Jennifer McM]

21 hours ago, Ray T said:

If ever you are an in patient in hospital they keep a record of your movements. 

Or they did the last time I was an in patient.

 

Seriously if you email CRT: https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/enjoy-the-waterways/boating/licensing-your-boat/boat-licence-customer-support-team/how-we-monitor-boat-movement

 

https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/media/library/8515.pdf

? Whoops, didn't mean to get personal .....

 

Thanks for the link, off to try it!

[b0atman]

22 hours ago, Clodi said:

I still don't get it. If I display my license number the CRT can tell if I'm all up to date with my payments . I'm all for a crackdown on the no payers but if we need paper license why do they not send one (2) out every year with holograms or some such anti-forgery device rather like the DVLA used to issue. I've gone paperless so not really sure how to get my copies done.

call in at any CRT office and they will print them off

1 hour ago, TheBiscuits said:

So you just guess the system reference number do you?  And make sure it is the same one that appears on the licence checker's handheld computer?

 

That's quite impressive.  How do you know what to put?

clone a similar boats licence remove your boat name and number both of which are supposed to be displayed and hey off you go .

[Robbo]

2 hours ago, TheBiscuits said:

So you just guess the system reference number do you?  And make sure it is the same one that appears on the licence checker's handheld computer?

 

That's quite impressive.  How do you know what to put?

You mean another number - wow.  Still needs the same check from CRT and doesn’t prove that I haven’t cloned another boat. 

[TheBiscuits]

17 minutes ago, Robbo said:

You mean another number - wow.  Still needs the same check from CRT and doesn’t prove that I haven’t cloned another boat. 

No, but at that point you are actively committing fraud rather than failing to display a valid licence.

 

For what it is worth, CRT will probably be able to tell which of the boats is the "real" one with the licence based on previous history & location.

[Robbo]

9 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

 

For what it is worth, CRT will probably be able to tell which of the boats is the "real" one with the licence based on previous history & location.

And that’s my point, the paper license has no value in proving you have a license and as CRT do regular checks along the system this *should* be more of a deterrent.

[ditchcrawler]

7 hours ago, Robbo said:

But if you had to print your own road tax disc the evasion would still be high as you could easily replicate one and the chances of getting caught from cameras and roaming checkers are just the same.

You could have scanned and printed one of the old round fund dicks if you had wanted to or just a bit of Photoshop to get what you want. I understand a paper MOT was not much more expensive than having your car tested, assuming it would pass. I wonder how many cars are running round with the same number plate

[Robbo]

4 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

You could have scanned and printed one of the old round fund dicks if you had wanted to or just a bit of Photoshop to get what you want. I understand a paper MOT was not much more expensive than having your car tested, assuming it would pass. I wonder how many cars are running round with the same number plate

Propably quite a lot of clones, but with the amount of cameras n all that it should be harder to clone (or more likely to get caught).   The round road tax disc thingies has a hologram to prevent just easily anyone printing them.   The license discs from CRT been self printed have nothing a casual observer can check to confirm if genuine.

Edited September 2, 2018 by Robbo

[Clodi]

Am I getting this correct?

The movement logs check our boats reg number & presumably an algorithm checks that those with no permanent home mooring are cruising enough to ensure they're legit CC as well as flagging up whether or not our licences are up to date.

At the same time others (are they volunteers or paid?) are running around with handheld computers checking if we are displaying paper licences in our portholes/windows? why?

I'm not a rebel I'll stick some up, but is there a designated place, fore or aft windows etc, half the boats near me have all sort or posters, dreamcatchers etc stuck in their windows and  being on the river there is hardly any neat towpath that boats can tie up to usually you're stuck a good gangplank away from the edge making it pretty hard to see anyway.

[ditchcrawler]

4 minutes ago, Clodi said:

Am I getting this correct?

The movement logs check our boats reg number & presumably an algorithm checks that those with no permanent home mooring are cruising enough to ensure they're legit CC as well as flagging up whether or not our licences are up to date.

At the same time others (are they volunteers or paid?) are running around with handheld computers checking if we are displaying paper licences in our portholes/windows? why?

I'm not a rebel I'll stick some up, but is there a designated place, fore or aft windows etc, half the boats near me have all sort or posters, dreamcatchers etc stuck in their windows and  being on the river there is hardly any neat towpath that boats can tie up to usually you're stuck a good gangplank away from the edge making it pretty hard to see anyway.

No you are not right, the Licence checkers riding round on bikes with hand held devices are paid. The only people looking at paper licenses are tunnel, lift. lock keepers, also AE lock keepers if you have a Gold Licence. What these people do if you are not displaying a notice I don't know

[Naughty Cal]

1 hour ago, TheBiscuits said:

No, but at that point you are actively committing fraud rather than failing to display a valid licence.

 

For what it is worth, CRT will probably be able to tell which of the boats is the "real" one with the licence based on previous history & location.

From where we are sat now we can see 4 boats which are the same model as ours. We could easily clone the licence on any of the others and get away with it!

[TheBiscuits]

2 hours ago, Naughty Cal said:

From where we are sat now we can see 4 boats which are the same model as ours. We could easily clone the licence on any of the others and get away with it!

So would the other owner not spot it when you change your boat name and reg number to the same as theirs?

[Clodi]

2 hours ago, ditchcrawler said:

No you are not right, the Licence checkers riding round on bikes with hand held devices are paid. The only people looking at paper licenses are tunnel, lift. lock keepers, also AE lock keepers if you have a Gold Licence. What these people do if you are not displaying a notice I don't know

So the bike persons are just logging our reg numbers?

[TheBiscuits]

1 minute ago, Clodi said:

So the bike persons are just logging our reg numbers?

Reg number is entered into the handheld.  That confirms the boat name, location (via GPS) and licence or flags it for review by the local enforcement bod. 

[ditchcrawler]

44 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

So would the other owner not spot it when you change your boat name and reg number to the same as theirs?

If there was another boat with the same number as mine painted on it I doubt I would notice. I never checked the number of the other Harnser's I have seen.

[TheBiscuits]

11 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

If there was another boat with the same number as mine painted on it I doubt I would notice. I never checked the number of the other Harnser's I have seen.

No, but Rachel said she could see several identical model boats from her mooring.  I'm fairly sure she would notice if one of them changed their name to Naughty Cal, and go and look.

[ditchcrawler]

4 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

No, but Rachel said she could see several identical model boats from her mooring.  I'm fairly sure she would notice if one of them changed their name to Naughty Cal, and go and look.

But on the canal the boat doesn't need to show a name, just those 3" high numbers and it doesn't even need to look the same

[TheBiscuits]

Just now, ditchcrawler said:

But on the canal the boat doesn't need to show a name, just those 3" high numbers and it doesn't even need to look the same

Technically a boat on the canal must display name & reg number legible from 20 feet away and display a valid licence.  I can't remember which bye-laws they are, but they have been discussed on here quite a few times.

 

IIRC it is a £100 fine for failure to display any of the three, but CRT ( and BW before them) don't seem interested in enforcing this.

[WotEver]

13 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

How is it going with car road tax evasion now discs are no longer issued?

In 2017, we see that an estimated 1.8% of vehicles in traffic on roads in the UK were unlicensed. The increase is probably largely due to changes to the vehicle licensing system which were introduced in October 2014 and April 2017.

VED evasion at the levels estimated in 2017 could have cost about 100 million pounds in lost revenue in the UK. Some of this revenue will have been recovered through DVLA enforcement activity or through vehicle keepers back-licensing their vehicles.

[mayalld]

12 hours ago, TheBiscuits said:

No, but at that point you are actively committing fraud rather than failing to display a valid licence.

 

 

THIS^^^^

 

Failing to display a licence, or even failing to have a licence are relatively minor matters.

 

Displaying a fake licence is a much more serious matter.

 

So, continuing to require the display of a licence does have some utility in driving down evasion, because only a complete idiot would display a fake licence to enable evasion.

[Clodi]

9 hours ago, TheBiscuits said:

Reg number is entered into the handheld.  That confirms the boat name, location (via GPS) and licence or flags it for review by the local enforcement bod. 

That sounds like a dream job, riding the tow- path everyday number spotting.?

[Alan de Enfield]

13 minutes ago, Clodi said:

That sounds like a dream job, riding the tow- path everyday number spotting.?

Logo'd wet-proofs, flat cap with a badge, 'tooth-brush moustache', computer, company vehicle - fits certain profiles perfectly.

[Clodi]

11 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Logo'd wet-proofs, flat cap with a badge, 'tooth-brush moustache', computer, company vehicle - fits certain profiles perfectly.

I've always fancied wearing a uniform