Death By Dangerous Cycling - New Laws

[Machpoint005]

1 hour ago, WotEver said:

Eh?

 

If I’m driving down the road at 30mph and the car in front of me wishes to turn left I don’t expect him to do so sliding on all four wheels in order to execute the turn at 30, I expect him to slow down in order to perform the manoeuvre. This will cause me to brake. I won’t hit him because I’m not that bad a driver.

 

You would have us believe that if I did run into him that it’s his fault? I think you need to go back to driving school. 

How did the bike get there?  Did it suddenly materialise in that position or did the cyclist slowly move down the inside of the stationary traffic and put himself into that dangerous position?  If the traffic is stopped, so should the cyclist be. 

You fail to understand the difference between a car and a bicycle. I'm not making it up. Are you prepared to live with having caused the death of a cyclist because of your own contributory negligence? What about your being "in the right" but still being able to prevent the death by acting wisely? 

 

Nobody said anything about the traffic having stopped, by the way.

[furnessvale]

1 minute ago, LadyG said:

As a young driver I was taught how to drive fast and safely by a police driver instructor, but I was never up to his standards.

However the lesson I learned was to be conservative, and make my intentions clear. Make sure you are aware of your surroundings.

Do not cause accidents and do not get involved in them.

I have never had an accident, this is because I drive within my limits, with regard to road conditions etc. I can't remember when I last had an emergency stop, but maybe my memory is not as sharp good as it was sixty years ago!

 

You are obviously a very safe driver/cyclist.  I have no problem with such people.

 

However, there ARE bad drivers who will carve up other vehicles and cyclists.  They deserve the punishment of the full weight of the law.

 

EQUALLY, there are bad cyclists who seem to want to claim the immortality mentioned in #224.  Cycling up the inside of a motor vehicle which is already indicating its intention to turn left fits very much into this category.

 

George

[Machpoint005]

1 minute ago, furnessvale said:

EQUALLY, there are bad cyclists who seem to want to claim the immortality mentioned in #224.  Cycling up the inside of a motor vehicle which is already indicating its intention to turn left fits very much into this category.

A good driver is aware of this and acts accordingly.

[furnessvale]

Just now, Machpoint005 said:

A good driver is aware of this and acts accordingly.

I give up!

 

And yes, I am safe in my tin box, except when I am riding my bike (but definitely NOT up the inside of a motor vehicle indicating its intention to turn left).

 

George

[Machpoint005]

Just now, furnessvale said:

I give up!

 

And yes, I am safe in my tin box, except when I am riding my bike (but definitely NOT up the inside of a motor vehicle indicating its intention to turn left).

 

George

But are you happy to kill an idiot cyclist?

[Sir Nibble]

Just now, Machpoint005 said:

But are you happy to kill an idiot cyclist?

It would be stressful to be right alongside a messy suicide but none of us can drive more than one vehicle at a time. We have all seen the videos of level crossing near misses because an idiot hops the barrier, train drivers fault?

[furnessvale]

1 minute ago, Machpoint005 said:

But are you happy to kill an idiot cyclist?

I would not deliberately kill the idiot, but if he went under my wheels by his own stupidity where I couldn't avoid him, Darwin has spoken.

 

George

[furnessvale]

Just now, Sir Nibble said:

It would be stressful to be right alongside a messy suicide but none of us can drive more than one vehicle at a time. We have all seen the videos of level crossing near misses because an idiot hops the barrier, train drivers fault?

Of course it is.  Surely the driver could have swerved to avoid him? ?

 

George

[KevMc]

26 minutes ago, Machpoint005 said:

A good driver is aware of this and acts accordingly.

If we're going to have to allow for all stupidity by all other road users we may as well return to the days when a car needed a man walking ahead with a red flag.

[Machpoint005]

2 hours ago, furnessvale said:

I would not deliberately kill the idiot, but if he went under my wheels by his own stupidity where I couldn't avoid him, Darwin has spoken.

 

George

Sorry, but you still haven't said you would be happy about it. Would you be as forthright if you had to tell his wife in person?

1 hour ago, KevMc said:

If we're going to have to allow for all stupidity by all other road users we may as well return to the days when a car needed a man walking ahead with a red flag.

And another killer on the loose in his car?

I'm not saying that, but I am suggesting we should all take some responsibility for the safety of others. Your right to drive your car comes with concomitant responsibilities, whether you like it or not. .

[Machpoint005]

2 hours ago, Sir Nibble said:

It would be stressful to be right alongside a messy suicide but none of us can drive more than one vehicle at a time. We have all seen the videos of level crossing near misses because an idiot hops the barrier, train drivers fault?

No, there is an important difference, and I think you can probably see it for yourself. The train driver could do nothing about it by increased vigilance. You, in your car, probably could, simply by looking in your mirrors.

[roland elsdon]

The contractors of cross rail knowing there would be a heavy number of large lorries, made all the drivers do awareness trainingfor cyclists .

one of the simulations was meeting the family of someone they had killed i believe, the other was being cross examined by a barrister. The feedback from the drivers was by report very positive.

having been cross examined in court  several times over a death it is a life changing experience and best avoided

[Machpoint005]

Just now, roland elsdon said:

The contractors of cross rail knowing there would be a heavy number of large lorries, made all the drivers do awareness trainingfor cyclists .

one of the simulations was meeting the family of someone they had killed i believe, the other was being cross examined by a barrister. The feedback from the drivers was by report very positive.

having been cross examined in court  several times over a death it is a life changing experience and best avoided

Thank you for that. Let's hope some of our members take due notice.

[furnessvale]

11 minutes ago, Machpoint005 said:

Sorry, but you still haven't said you would be happy about it. Would you be as forthright if you had to tell his wife in person?

 

 

How can anyone be happy at the death of another human being, (Hitler, various terrorists etc excepted).

 

Yes, it wouldn't be nice telling his wife how her husband committed suicide, but it is a job I have done a number of times.

 

George

 

 

[Machpoint005]

In which case I am utterly befuddled about your reference above (inaccurate, as it happens) to Darwin.

[Guest]

6 hours ago, LadyG said:

 

A lo of drivers forget the van is wider than a bike, and they forget it is there. 

I don't know it is there, so if I have to squeeze over to let someone overtake it is likely I will then re establish my position as soon as the car has passed

Its a problem if they have just overtaken me  because they are too impatient. I believe a lot of serious injuries and deaths are caused in towns and cities by lorries just knocking over the cyclist who is disregarded as they turn left. That is how RTI's happen.

Do you mean the van is wider than the car?

 

Anyway, I don't and as I said I cant speak for anybody else.

[Guest]

6 hours ago, Machpoint005 said:

I disagree. If your left-turn manoeuvre causes a bike behind you to brake, or worse, to hit you, it is your fault. That is what your left-hand door mirror is for.

I seem to remember that somebody on this forum was actually 'done' for careless driving when this happened.

I agree with this, but it is still the driver's responsibility to drive safely. The cyclist doesn't have a licence to say he or she is permitted to ride.

But if I was driving a car and a car on the outside signalled it's intention to come into my lane cutting across in front of me I wouldn't just press on regardless, it's my responsibility to avoid an accident as much as it's the other driver.

 

So why would a cyclist do this? 

[Sir Nibble]

supposing the cyclist undertaking a left indicating truck is a six year old on a little pink bike with stabiliser wheels. None of us would find that acceptable and would probably raise doubts about the quality of her parenting. A six year old cannot be expected to exercise sensible judgement. What's the difference between that scenario and an adult cyclist who can exercise sensible judgement but simply doesn't. I would suggest that we should all take responsibility for our own actions and that it is immoral to foist responsibility for the irresponsible upon whatever random citizens happen to be nearby.

[cereal tiller]

14 minutes ago, Sir Nibble said:

supposing the cyclist undertaking a left indicating truck is a six year old on a little pink bike with stabiliser wheels. None of us would find that acceptable and would probably raise doubts about the quality of her parenting. A six year old cannot be expected to exercise sensible judgement. What's the difference between that scenario and an adult cyclist who can exercise sensible judgement but simply doesn't. I would suggest that we should all take responsibility for our own actions and that it is immoral to foist responsibility for the irresponsible upon whatever random citizens happen to be nearby.

I am a Random Citizen and hear what you say!

[Alan de Enfield]

14 minutes ago, Sir Nibble said:

I would suggest that we should all take responsibility for our own actions and that it is immoral to foist responsibility for the irresponsible upon whatever random citizens happen to be nearby.

 

Are you saying that the cyclist who cuts inside an indicating,  left turning truck and gets squished is at fault, or the truck driver is at fault ?

[roland elsdon]

Pretty sure its the rider, however if the truck overtakes immediatly before the junction before clearing the rider and then turns bringing the rider down its the trucks.

 

suvs seem adept at the last manouver . The last one who did it to me deeply regretted it, in a country far far away.

[LadyG]

To come back to reality, an eminent surgeon has just been killed by a lorry in London, I think it  most unlikely that he was acting irresponsibly.

Do you think Chris Froome is inexperienced?  https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-39856219

Stats tell us that serious injury risk. including deaths, is 17% higher than a decade ago, the [London] Government have expressed concern about deaths in London, , but so far there has been insufficient action.

 

Edited August 17, 2018 by LadyG

[furnessvale]

31 minutes ago, roland elsdon said:

Pretty sure its the rider, however if the truck overtakes immediatly before the junction before clearing the rider and then turns bringing the rider down its the trucks.

 

 

Which is exactly what I have been saying for the past, God knows how many posts, to no avail.

 

George

[Guest]

1 hour ago, LadyG said:

To come back to reality, an eminent surgeon has just been killed by a lorry in London, I think it  most unlikely that he was acting irresponsibly.

Do you think Chris Froome is inexperienced?  https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-39856219

Stats tell us that serious injury risk. including deaths, is 17% higher than a decade ago, the [London] Government have expressed concern about deaths in London, , but so far there has been insufficient action.

 

Sorry but you think somebody wouldn't act irresponsibly simply because they happen to be a surgeon? Can you please explain why?

Edited August 17, 2018 by MJG

[WotEver]

1 hour ago, LadyG said:

I think it  most unlikely that he was acting irresponsibly

Why do you think this?