Blacking Disappeared!

[blackrose]

2 hours ago, peterboat said:

Nobody has convinced me that 2 pack is better than the zinger I applied, since then I have used keelblack just for cosmetic reasons, however the boat comes out next month along with Johns my mate, his was 2 packed from new after blasting and that hasnt faired to well at all. So next month we will see how the keelblack has fared on both boats, mine which had no pitting or corrosion or Johns that was badly pitted and corroded last time they were both dydocked

A lot of it will depend on how well the job is done and whether the people doing it actually understand the paint system they are using. So it's very difficult to do any comparisons between different systems unless you know it's been done properly. 

 

I don't know about Zinger but I understand 2 pack and you have to pay attention to cleaning after the prep is done, mixing in the correct proportions and also minimum and maximum overcoating times for good interlayer bonding. Without this you're wasting your time and money.

Edited June 2, 2018 by blackrose

[peterboat]

15 minutes ago, blackrose said:

A lot of it will depend on how well the job is done and whether the people doing it actually understand the paint system they are using. So it's very difficult to do any comparisons between different systems unless it's done by the same yard and you know it's been done properly. 

 

I don't know about Zinger but I understand 2 pack and you have to pay attention to cleaning after the prep is done, mixing in the correct proportions and also minimum and maximum overcoating times for good interlayer bonding. Without this you're wasting your time and money.

I suspect that something went amiss in the prep stage as well although John assures me not, Zinger demands good blasting and application whist dry I followed the instructions to the letter as it wasnt something I wanted to do twice!!

[blackrose]

3 minutes ago, peterboat said:

I suspect that something went amiss in the prep stage as well although John assures me not, Zinger demands good blasting and application whist dry I followed the instructions to the letter as it wasnt something I wanted to do twice!!

Well I personally pressure washed the hull of an old 90ft Thames steam launch that hadn't been out of the water for over 10 years and the two-pack was almost perfect. I think it was a Sigma product. We refurbished the whole boat but we didn't even bother repainting under the waterline. I'd imagine that two pack is used for more industrial and commercial applications than Zinger, but that's just a guess on my part.

[Dr Bob]

3 minutes ago, peterboat said:

I suspect that something went amiss in the prep stage as well although John assures me not, Zinger demands good blasting and application whist dry I followed the instructions to the letter as it wasnt something I wanted to do twice!!

One issue that can badly affect performance is temperature of application versus the dew point. In all commercial paint jobs where blasting and 2 pack epoxy are applied, a paint inspector will use a wet and dry thermometer to check the dew point and only start painting when the ambient is at least a couple of degrees above this. I am not sure how many boat yards do this. I doubt you would do this in a DIY job. In the spring/autumn there is a big danger of painting when the temp is too low (ie the instructions may say apply down to 10°C......but that might be the dew point) and in the summer, you start painting too early in the day to avoid the high daytime temperatures that can be generated on the hull and again run foul of the dew point.

I wouldnt use epoxy lower than 15°C.

[peterboat]

1 minute ago, blackrose said:

Well I personally pressure washed the hull of an old 90ft Thames steam launch that hadn't been out of the water for over 10 years and the two-pack was almost perfect. I think it was a Sigma product. We refurbished the whole boat but we didn't even bother repainting under the waterline. I'd imagine that two pack is used for more industrial and commercial applications than Zinger, but that's just a guess on my part.

Used for boats and other applications that are constantly submerged 25 year life if done correctly. I take mine out 2 yearly because I hit things! repair damage to it with zinger then keelblack it total cost £500 every two years small price to pay for your home in my view

6 minutes ago, blackrose said:

Well I personally pressure washed the hull of an old 90ft Thames steam launch that hadn't been out of the water for over 10 years and the two-pack was almost perfect. I think it was a Sigma product. We refurbished the whole boat but we didn't even bother repainting under the waterline. I'd imagine that two pack is used for more industrial and commercial applications than Zinger, but that's just a guess on my part.

 

3 minutes ago, Dr Bob said:

One issue that can badly affect performance is temperature of application versus the dew point. In all commercial paint jobs where blasting and 2 pack epoxy are applied, a paint inspector will use a wet and dry thermometer to check the dew point and only start painting when the ambient is at least a couple of degrees above this. I am not sure how many boat yards do this. I doubt you would do this in a DIY job. In the spring/autumn there is a big danger of painting when the temp is too low (ie the instructions may say apply down to 10°C......but that might be the dew point) and in the summer, you start painting too early in the day to avoid the high daytime temperatures that can be generated on the hull and again run foul of the dew point.

I wouldnt use epoxy lower than 15°C.

JohnV with Sabina H a 1929 tanker 2 packed his years and year ago it has sat in mud in the sea and his was the same undamaged 3 coats of keelblack for cosmetic looks and it gone back in as good as new

[cuthound]

6 hours ago, Neil Smith said:

Get it blasted and apply 2 pack, will last 6 years if done correctly.

Neil

 

6 years? We had our 2 pack blacking checked last year at 10 years old and were told that it was in good condition and to get it checked again in another 2 years.

 

 

[Sea Dog]

8 hours ago, KirstieH said:

I am a teacher i like to follow instruction lol? can you recommend a diesel unfriendly one....I was advised that rytex was better than most. Many thanks

Rylards do a couple of slightly different blacking products: Rytex and Premium.  Rytex is thick and matt; Premium is thinner and has a sheen.  Premium is supposed to be more diesel tolerant than most bitumen based blacking products - Rylards say so in their blurb, so it must be true, eh?  I, like many, tend to use Premium for the first coat as it flows well and gets into all the nooks and crannies, then a couple of coats of Rytex for the thickness and resistance to scrapes, finishing with a coat of Premium for the diesel resistance. 

8 hours ago, KirstieH said:

I am a teacher i like to follow instruction lol? can you recommend a diesel unfriendly one....I was advised that rytex was better than most. Many thanks

Rylards do a couple of slightly different blacking products: Rytex and Premium.  Rytex is thick and matt; Premium is thinner and has a sheen.  Premium is supposed to be more diesel tolerant than most bitumen based blacking products - Rylards say so in their blurb, so it must be true, eh?  I, like many, tend to use Premium for the first coat as it flows well and gets into all the nooks and crannies, then a couple of coats of Rytex for the thickness and resistance to scrapes, finishing with a coat of Premium for the diesel resistance. 

8 hours ago, KirstieH said:

I am a teacher i like to follow instruction lol? can you recommend a diesel unfriendly one....I was advised that rytex was better than most. Many thanks

Rylards do a couple of slightly different blacking products: Rytex and Premium.  Rytex is thick and matt; Premium is thinner and has a sheen.  Premium is supposed to be more diesel tolerant than most bitumen based blacking products - Rylards say so in their blurb, so it must be true, eh?  I, like many, tend to use Premium for the first coat as it flows well and gets into all the nooks and crannies, then a couple of coats of Rytex for the thickness and resistance to scrapes, finishing with a coat of Premium for the diesel resistance. 

Edited June 2, 2018 by Sea Dog
Trying to remove duplicate posts but got fed up in the end!

[ditchcrawler]

4 hours ago, Dr Bob said:

One issue that can badly affect performance is temperature of application versus the dew point. In all commercial paint jobs where blasting and 2 pack epoxy are applied, a paint inspector will use a wet and dry thermometer to check the dew point and only start painting when the ambient is at least a couple of degrees above this. I am not sure how many boat yards do this. I doubt you would do this in a DIY job. In the spring/autumn there is a big danger of painting when the temp is too low (ie the instructions may say apply down to 10°C......but that might be the dew point) and in the summer, you start painting too early in the day to avoid the high daytime temperatures that can be generated on the hull and again run foul of the dew point.

I wouldnt use epoxy lower than 15°C.

Off shore they would spend a day blasting, next day if the weather looked right they would flash blast it again to remove the ginger and then if the paint inspector gave the OK airless spray it. The inspector would take air temperature, humidity with a wet dry thermometer and steel temperature, as they sprayed he would do random wet film thickness checks. If you get a few days of marginal weather the paint inspector is not a popular chap.

[Mikexx]

On 02/06/2018 at 12:22, Alan de Enfield said:

At the rate your anodes are eroding you will still have to lift out every couple of years so you will not get the savings that other get.

 

 

 

My very limited experience suggests the anode life will be greatly extended where a two-pack coating is used.  My front anodes are still in good condition and many years old.

 

[WotEver]

7 hours ago, Mikexx said:

 

My very limited experience suggests the anode life will be greatly extended where a two-pack coating is used.  My front anodes are still in good condition and many years old.

So they’re doing nowt? I guess you could leave them off. 

[Clodi]

That's a nice looking dry-dock, may I ask where it is please?

[Mikexx]

2 hours ago, WotEver said:

So they’re doing nowt? I guess you could leave them off. 

 

I did replace the rear-most anode. I assumed having a bronze prop doesn't help!