District enforcement mooring fine Reading

[OldGoat]

14 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Good clear and concise response that is hard to argue against.

The formal response is reasonable in content and explains RBCs reasons behind their strategy. What has been ignored (or may be conveniently avoided) is that the Tesco moorings have for many years been used as a convenient stop for boaters to shop at Tesco. A charge of £9.50 is unreasonable for a stay of an hour or so - many Thames boaters would be prepared to pay £2 (I would) for a short stop. What has also been ignored is that Henley only charge for an overnight stop - you can stop up to  15:30 for no charge. The wording on the sign is inflammatory and so badly worded that it probably couldn't be enforced in law. I understand that if you try to book by phone that the telephone number is frequently engaged with xx calls waiting - thus most boaters just pass by

[reg]

27 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

The introduction of the revised fees and charges referenced above will be accompanied by updated public information, in the following formats;

•        Updated and enhanced signage at each mooring site making clear the appropriate fee and method of efficient payment.

•        A mooring information page on the Council’s website which makes clear the Council’s provision, policy position, management regime including fees and charges and rationale.

•        Distribution of Frequently Asked Question (FAQ) data on moorings to call centre staff to permit them to clearly and concisely respond to enquiries.

Thanks for taking to trouble to obtain that Rosslynx 

Does outline the major  problem well and tries to address some of the issues. 

I can see why the need to address temporary short term mooring was not the main consideration during this phase of the implementation but is a least being addressed now. 

Need to see how it goes once the above amendments have been implemented and I suspect we will need to be vigilant with DE enforcement of the policy. 

DE and their methodology are my main concern I think for this to be a success for all legitimate parties we will need to have confidence in the enforcement agency. 

I've stated a number of times that I am happy to play fairly if the other party is also playing fairly, if DE fail in this then council needs to be made aware of any failings. 

 

[Paringa]

Recommended by the EA... Here we go, men in armoured vests with video cameras coming to a mooring near you.

[Rosslynx]

Thanks for taking to trouble to obtain that Rosslynx 

Does outline the major  problem well and tries to address some of the issues. 

I can see why the need to address temporary short term mooring was not the main consideration during this phase of the implementation but is a least being addressed now. 

Need to see how it goes once the above amendments have been implemented and I suspect we will need to be vigilant with DE enforcement of the policy. 

DE and their methodology are my main concern I think for this to be a success for all legitimate parties we will need to have confidence in the enforcement agency. 

I've stated a number of times that I am happy to play fairly if the other party is also playing fairly, if DE fail in this then council needs to be made aware of any failings. 

 

 

That is my point exactly. The first thing that DE could do is to answer their phones promptly and not be so rude to customers seeking clarification of this issue. A confused issue that was partly caused by their poor signage!

Edited July 3, 2018 by Rosslynx
insert quote

[Rosslynx]

Here is my reply to Reading Borough Council, which I hope is diplomatically worded -

 

Quote

Dear Mr. Hermon,

 

Thank you for your clear and comprehensive explanation of the current situation in Reading. I will be sure to look out for these sites when we pass through Reading in the next 3 weeks.

 

With regards to the Kings Meadow (Tesco) moorings, I was sent the attached photograph of the sign displayed at the moorings. This sign is neither clear nor very friendly and reads as if mooring for just a few minutes makes the boat owner liable for a £100 charge. This is not indicative that District Enforcement is very welcoming or friendly and my own experience of dealing with them over the phone backs this up.

 

If you have now changed the signs to something clearer and less threatening, at least it is some progress.

 

What I would urge you to consider is a system that is in use at Tesco sites with canal moorings ALL over the country – (Rickmansworth, Leighton Buzzard, Aylesbury, Bull’s bridge (Southall), West Drayton to name but a few). There you can moor FREE for up to 2 hours, which is long enough for most people to do their shopping.

 

We are leisure boaters and for 40+ weeks a year our boat is in a Marina, but for many in the boating community, they live on their boats and are commonly called Continuous Cruisers. Both parts of our community really appreciate the great help of Tesco’s (and occasionally other supermarkets) by making it easy for us to stop for a short while and take on supplies.

 

Short term moorings should be free, whether they are at a supermarket, alongside a pub or restaurant or in a town (Henley has Singers Wharf – Free for 2 hours). How else do you expect boaters to stop for a short time to shop, have a drink or a meal?

 

If the situation has genuinely changed in Reading and there are possibly more positive changes coming then perhaps this will go some way to restoring Readings reputation as a good place to moor, for shopping, lunch or even overnight. However, I feel that the damage may have already been done as there is quite a strong feeling amongst boaters that Reading is a place to boycott – pass through it without stopping – and the “Reading doesn’t like Boaters” blogs will continue for some time.

Let's hope that common sense prevails!

[MtB]

1 hour ago, Rosslynx said:

Here is my reply to Reading Borough Council, which I hope is diplomatically worded -

 

Let's hope that common sense prevails!

 

A very measured response. 

 

Next time you communicate with Mr Hermon it might be an idea to suggest he calls the number on the signs as a 'mystery shopper' and tries to pay the £9.50 fee, to see why boaters are complaining about poor phone service and manner from DE. 

 

 

Edited July 3, 2018 by Mike the Boilerman
To get Mr Hermon's name right!

[ditchcrawler]

They seem under the impression that the EA use this company, I thought from what I read here that is not the case

[reg]

22 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

They seem under the impression that the EA use this company, I thought from what I read here that is not the case

It is my understanding that EA used DE for early trials but not afterwards. Ive Seen nothing to dispell this. 

From DE site

"

District Enforcement Limited, working closely with the Environment Agency, was the first company to successfully provide mooring management solutions to private landowners.  Whether your moorings are time limited, completely restricted or unregulated, our flexible solution draws on the unique contractual regulation model utilised in our car parks nationally.

Having successfully trialled the model with the Environment Agency, our methods have now been adopted by a number of private landowners and Local Authorities."

 

I think the was is critical in the above statement, not sure if it has been a amended recently to include the" was" as I am fairly certain that until recently they said that "they work closely with Environment Agency" 

So the current tense is now the past tense. 

 

Looks like someone is reading this thread

Edited July 3, 2018 by reg

[MtB]

3 minutes ago, reg said:

It is my understanding that EA used DE for early trials but not afterwards. Ive Seen nothing to dispell this. 

 

I wonder if Mr Hermon realises this.

 

I also wonder who administers the charges at Henley. This is also the first time I've seen Reading policy being mentioned as influenced by and aligning with Henley policy. 

[cereal tiller]

1 hour ago, Rosslynx said:

Here is my reply to Reading Borough Council, which I hope is diplomatically worded -

 

Let's hope that common sense prevails!

Henley has 5 Hour free Moorings at  MillMeadow.10 A.M. till 3P.M.

[john6767]

6 minutes ago, cereal tiller said:

Henley has 5 Hour free Moorings at  MillMeadow.10 A.M. till 3P.M.

Perhaps worth pointing that out to Reading council, it would be really useful if you could have a couple of hours free at Tesco’s for shopping, that would still be in line with Henley.

[MtB]

26 minutes ago, john6767 said:

Perhaps worth pointing that out to Reading council, it would be really useful if you could have a couple of hours free at Tesco’s for shopping, that would still be in line with Henley.

 

And worth pointing out Henley council administers the overnight charge without the unpleasant and ridiculously aggressive signage DE rely on. 

[WotEver]

7 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

And worth pointing out Henley council administers the overnight charge without the unpleasant and ridiculously aggressive signage DE rely on. 

I’d guess (although I have done zero research to back up the assertion) that Henley council is considerably richer than Reading council and so may be able to afford their own wardens. 

[ditchcrawler]

2 minutes ago, WotEver said:

I’d guess (although I have done zero research to back up the assertion) that Henley council is considerably richer than Reading council and so may be able to afford their own wardens. 

I think its handled by carparks as you buy your ticket from a pay and display machine, or did last time I was there

[MtB]

1 minute ago, ditchcrawler said:

I think its handled by carparks as you buy your ticket from a pay and display machine, or did last time I was there

 

I haven't been there for years but this seems an imminently simple, sensible and blindingly obvious solution. I cannot believe Henley have not told Reading about it, given the way they apparently work closely together on mooring issues. 

[J R ALSOP]

Well I stopped at Tescos in Reading this morning at 0900, only two boats there a f/glass wide beam with a middle aged couple who could not make head nor tails of the the signs, lots of bits had been scratched off, so the left straight away, the other boat was just leaving having spent the night there, he thought as I have spent £80 in Tescos that was enough outlay.

By which time Mr's A had returned after a 'sprint" shop and we left.

It is a nice new jetty with plenty of length and rings.

[cereal tiller]

5 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

I think its handled by carparks as you buy your ticket from a pay and display machine, or did last time I was there

And should you forget to buy a Ticket or the Machine be Broked the Park Staff will politely Knock on your Boat ask ask for the Fee...

All very Civil and no Rude Signs or threats of Deportation etc...

[OldGoat]

2 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

I haven't been there for years but this seems an imminently simple, sensible and blindingly obvious solution. I cannot believe Henley have not told Reading about it, given the way they apparently work closely together on mooring issues. 

The cynic in me leads me to feel that it's more to do with Reading Council officials saying they've discussed with / looked at similar problems, rather than checking that the facilities are similar.

Henley has a very much smaller run of moorings to be policed - those available for temporary moorings are about the same length as the new 'boardwalk' at Reading and there are staff around to monitor the park anyway.

In contrast Reading has two or three miles of river frontage (Kennet and Thames rivers) to monitor with the coal moorings being 2-300 yards

[MtB]

Reading has recently introduced parking ticket machines on virtually all the on-street parking in the town. Many hundreds of them have been installed across the borough. It seems a shame they didn't put a few at Tesco, Kings Meadow etc. while they were at it. 

[cereal tiller]

2 minutes ago, OldGoat said:

The cynic in me leads me to feel that it's more to do with Reading Council officials saying they've discussed with / looked at similar problems, rather than checking that the facilities are similar.

Henley has a very much smaller run of moorings to be policed - those available for temporary moorings are about the same length as the new 'boardwalk' at Reading and there are staff around to monitor the park anyway.

In contrast Reading has two or three miles of river frontage (Kennet and Thames rivers) to monitor with the coal moorings being 2-300 yards

The 5 Hour Moorings are the Length of Mill Meadow (350 Metres?) and the Total chargeable Moorings in Henley must be well Over a Mile?

[Tony Brooks]

2 minutes ago, OldGoat said:

The cynic in me leads me to feel that it's more to do with Reading Council officials saying they've discussed with / looked at similar problems, rather than checking that the facilities are similar.

Henley has a very much smaller run of moorings to be policed - those available for temporary moorings are about the same length as the new 'boardwalk' at Reading and there are staff around to monitor the park anyway.

In contrast Reading has two or three miles of river frontage (Kennet and Thames rivers) to monitor with the coal moorings being 2-300 yards

Cant agree with that. Their moorings run right up past the River and Rowing Museum and across the second meadow to Mill lane. The moorings Reading offer as visitor moorings are Chestnut walk, - say four or five boat lengths, a similar length near Reading bridge and Tesco ones.

 

Wallingford seems to have a part time collector while Windsor seemed to have contracted out their moorings the last time I was there but not to a parking company.

 

I live on the Reading boundary and it is clear to me they will "sting" anyone they can. Their car parking charges are some of the most expensive around and this is just an extension of this policy.

[OldGoat]

13 minutes ago, cereal tiller said:

The 5 Hour Moorings are the Length of Mill Meadow (350 Metres?) and the Total chargeable Moorings in Henley must be well Over a Mile?

Yes - it's the 5 hour moorings that equate to the Coal moorings? The rest are let out on contract (AFAIK) so don't 'suffer' from occasional moorers? I'm on shaky ground as we don't stop in the town.

[john6767]

55 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

I think its handled by carparks as you buy your ticket from a pay and display machine, or did last time I was there

That is what I did the one time I have been there.  Presumably the same people that check cars in the adjacent car part, check boats.

[OldGoat]

16 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

Cant agree with that. Their moorings run right up past the River and Rowing Museum and across the second meadow to Mill lane. The moorings Reading offer as visitor moorings are Chestnut walk, - say four or five boat lengths, a similar length near Reading bridge and Tesco ones.

 

Wallingford seems to have a part time collector while Windsor seemed to have contracted out their moorings the last time I was there but not to a parking company.

 

I live on the Reading boundary and it is clear to me they will "sting" anyone they can. Their car parking charges are some of the most expensive around and this is just an extension of this policy.

Those are the official moorings, but on my last visit upstream (early June), the whole river from the end of the head lock layby up to Scours Lane (at Tilehurst) on the Reading side plus Reading to Caversham bridges on the Caversham side were plastered with 'you'll-be-exterminated-unless' notices. Hence my estimate / guestimate.

[Tony Brooks]

Not all of that length belongs to the council, although a fair bit does. However those are no mooring lengths, like many parts of the Thames. I am talking about the visitor moorings that the council could be perfectly capable of monitoring if they chose to. Using their parking wardens comes to mind.