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Laurence Hogg

CRT Logo - comments

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4 hours ago, b0atman said:

Could we use British waterways now as with devolution Scotland and Wales have the right to use their country so Scottish Waterways etc.

English Waterways is the way to go Bring all waterways under the same authority and have a logo competition for junior school children to design .

British Waterways still exists. Scottish Canals are actually "British Waterways, trading as Scottish Canals".

When CaRT was set up, most British Waterways assets (and liabilities) were transferred to it. The assets not transferred (Scottish canals, some property, etc) remained with British Waterways, which continues, but known as Scottish Canals to reflect the restricted area of operation.

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6 hours ago, Grassman said:

 How about while they are at it introducing an new logo they also change their name?

... to British Waterways (except Scotland) ?

There, corrected that for you. ?

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11 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

The company I 'managed' was a limited company and was part of a larger limited company, the 'parent' company was the sole stockholder but each year my profits (around £10m on £55m t/o) were totally wiped out by transfer and head office charging.

BWML was set up specifically to combat the activities Alan mentions and other abuses. BW and C&RT maintain that BWML is treated no differently to any other company with which they deal.

However, I digress. My reason for posting was the danger of giving gross income figures rather than net.

The question still stands. Alan gave gross income as -

Donations = £2.9 million

DEFRA Grant = £50 million

Property = £46.9 million

BWML = £8.1 million

I pointed out that the first on his list was actually a net loss of £800,000 quoting C&RT's last annual report and invited further net figures. 

Would anyone care to provide net figures for DEFRA grant, Property and BWML with references?

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11 hours ago, Grassman said:

 How about while they are at it introducing an new logo they also change their name?

... to British Waterways ?

British Waterways still exists, it runs the waterways in Scotland.

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On 30/04/2018 at 09:23, Alan de Enfield said:

The company I 'managed' was a limited company and was part of a larger limited company, the 'parent' company was the sole stockholder but each year my profits (around £10m on £55m t/o) were totally wiped out by transfer and head office charging.

On a minor scale by comparison I ran a non-profit making company. It was not meant to be - but that was the reality of the cash-flow situation - especially when tax on a good year fell due to be paid in a following bad year.

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2 minutes ago, Horace42 said:

On a minor scale by comparison I ran a non-profit making company. It was not meant to be - but that was the reality of the cash-flow situation - especially when tax on a good year fell due to be paid in a following bad year.

When I retired I also ran a 'non-profit making' company (it was planned to be profit making but it was 2007/8 and the world was collapsing)

My accountant did some jiggery-pokery where you can offset bad years losses against good years profits., So corporation tax was minimal or nothing.

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18 minutes ago, Horace42 said:

On a minor scale by comparison I ran a non-profit making company.

 

I have a fair bit of experience of running one of those. My accountant used to rather cruelly say the finances showed it might better be described as a 'hobby', than a business. 

 

 

Edited by Mike the Boilerman
Speelling

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8 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

I have a fair bit of experience of running one of those. My accountant used to rather cruelly say the finances showed it might better be described as a 'hobby', than a business.

....a hobby ! yes...and although my business was a serious manufacturing enterprise and ultimately profitable. With the MoD amongst our customers) when on a 'friendly' basis with their senior officers as we got to know them - my wife as co-director and shareholder - doing admin and answering the phone - when someone rang and needed to speak to me she would ask them to hang on a second because "He's chatting on the phone.....", "He's mucking about in the workshop.....", "He's playing on his computer....", "He's drawing pictures on the blackboard..."

 

I've long since retired.

 

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57 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

When I retired I also ran a 'non-profit making' company (it was planned to be profit making but it was 2007/8 and the world was collapsing)

My accountant did some jiggery-pokery where you can offset bad years losses against good years profits., So corporation tax was minimal or nothing.

I can understand that - but I blame my accountant for not warning me of the risk of showing my audited accounts to the bank - something I did as a matter of routine - thinking it was what 'good' honest traders and businessmen did - in support of a request for an increased overdraft to pay the pending tax demand.

Instead all hell broke loose. The Nation Westminster Bank, or more appropriately as I call them,  Bestminster  *ankers, not only refused a loan, but immediate called in the overdraft and closed the account. I couldn't pay anybody - full stop.

It was the taxman (believe it or not) that helped me out of the mess.

But that's a long complex story of recovery for some other time.

 

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On 29/04/2018 at 21:28, Allan(nb Albert) said:

Thats not common logo used on paperwork etc, it is the shipping house flag which to my knowledge has never been used.

  • Greenie 1

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Or is this where a component of design came from? The flag of the "Grand Union (Shipping) Co, left indepenant after nationalisation trading it ships as the "Regents Line"

 

Brown's Flags and Funnels (1951) lists for Regents Line (Grand Union (Shipping) Ltd.), London, a yellow flag with over all a blue Y; in top a white disk with three blue horizontal stripes; at the hoist a black capital R; at the fly a black capital L.
Jarig Bakker, 25 August 2004

regents line.jpg

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3 hours ago, Horace42 said:

On a minor scale by comparison I ran a non-profit making company. It was not meant to be - but that was the reality of the cash-flow situation - especially when tax on a good year fell due to be paid in a following bad year.

There really is no such thing as (formally) a non-profit making company. The distinction lies in what happens with the profits, if any. ie are they distributed to shareholders or retained within the business?

 

On more than one occasion in the past I have had to work hard to get people involved in businesses that do not distribute profits (usually charitable) that they still have to make a profit - as the only alternative is aiming to make a loss and that is unsustainable. Do they want a future or not? There are, of course, genuine issues to debate about the size of the profit and what is done with them.

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2 hours ago, Laurence Hogg said:

Thats not common logo used on paperwork etc, it is the shipping house flag which to my knowledge has never been used.

Seems a mirror image of what is shown in #105 to me.

2 hours ago, Laurence Hogg said:

Thats not common logo used on paperwork etc, it is the shipping house flag which to my knowledge has never been used.

Seems a mirror image of what is shown in #105 to me.

2 hours ago, Laurence Hogg said:

Thats not common logo used on paperwork etc, it is the shipping house flag which to my knowledge has never been used.

Seems a mirror image of what is shown in #105 to me.

2 hours ago, Laurence Hogg said:

Thats not common logo used on paperwork etc, it is the shipping house flag which to my knowledge has never been used.

Seems a mirror image of what is shown in #105 to me.

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16 minutes ago, Allan(nb Albert) said:

Seems a mirror image of what is shown in #105 to me.

Seems a mirror image of what is shown in #105 to me.

Seems a mirror image of what is shown in #105 to me.

Seems a mirror image of what is shown in #105 to me.

Seems post #138 is a mirror image, is a mirror image, is a mirror image.

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4 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Seems post #138 is a mirror image, is a mirror image, is a mirror image.

...on reflection, I think you are right!....

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20 hours ago, Allan(nb Albert) said:

(several times)

Seems a mirror image of what is shown in #105 to me.

 

But a flag has two sides ...

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1 hour ago, Iain_S said:

But a flag has two sides ...

That's one way of looking at it ...
... But, in general, flag illustrations are obverse (i.e. from the front), left to right.
 

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I have found an inspiring match to the logo, the unfinished portal of Summit Tunnel on the BCN old main line,,, what do you think?

CRT Logo 2018.jpg

SUMMIT.jpg

  • Greenie 1

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1 hour ago, Laurence Hogg said:

I have found an inspiring match to the logo, the unfinished portal of Summit Tunnel on the BCN old main line,,, what do you think?

CRT Logo 2018.jpg

SUMMIT.jpg

So they really are trying to convince us there is light at the end of the tunnel?

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On 02/05/2018 at 16:08, Tanglewood said:

So they really are trying to convince us there is light at the end of the tunnel?

Or showing us that somethings will never get done, like the portals to this tunnel!

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Maybe the new logo is meant to delude us into thinking that there is depth below the surface.

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3 hours ago, b0atman said:

Maybe the new logo is meant to delude us into thinking that there is depth below the surface.

 

In my experience an unexpected re-branding for no obvious reason is usually displacement activity on the part of the board, in a (usually) vain attempt to save a failing company instead of taking decisive management action to fix the mounting problems. 

  • Greenie 2

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Having been fed the latest stuff from CRT when they refused to show this, I think it is a load of rubbish. t looks like a sewer viewed from half way down a fat berg!!

It gives absolutely no 'feel' for what the canals are all about and even less about CRT's green credentials. Both the BW and old CRT logo did go a way to express that. More money down the drain!!

And, yes I am sure this is the new logo as it can be found as a registered trade mark registered to CRT on 2nd March 2018 (https://trademarks.lpo.gov.uk)

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More than a few of you have been in touch recently, concerned that you’d read we are spending £2.5million on ‘rebranding’ the Trust. Put simply, we’re not.

We will be launching a revitalised brand on 22 May but no extra money, outside of what we routinely spend on promoting the Trust, is being spent. It is not at the expense of the money we spend to repair and maintain the waterways, which continues to grow year-on-year. What’s really important is why we’re doing it

 

I guess this means that there will be no new uniforms, no new vans signage, no new canal signage - nothing will be spent that was not routinely planned so as a van is replaced it will get the new logo, when a uniform needs replacing it will have the new logo.

 

It could be years and years before there is any consistency in marketing 'face' of C&RT

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4 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

In my experience an unexpected re-branding for no obvious reason is usually displacement activity on the part of the board, in a (usually) vain attempt to save a failing company instead of taking decisive management action to fix the mounting problems. 

I am fully expecting The TSB to have a different name soon.

 

I also wonder why the National Gas Company keeps changing its name. It was Transco last time I thought about it, (probably a decade or so ago), but have recently seen gas vans with Cadent on the side.

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