Kennet&avon max. Dimensions

[Simonafloat]

Thinking of bringing our yacht up the bristol channel and on to the Kennet and avon then on towards the thames. Unsure if she'll fit though. Her dimensions are 9ft beam, 3ft draught. She is a twin fin so the 3ft draught is right to the edges effectively. Her mast is lowered onto A frames fore and aft which can be lowered right to deck level which is lower than a narrowboat. Just wondering if she'll fit? We've been on the western end of the k&a in a narrowboat before and I think we'll struggle to moor up against the towpath.

Cheers

 

Simon

[rusty69]

I've heard of twin keels, fin keels,long keels and bilge keels. What are twin fins please?

[MtB]

If they are the same thing as fin keels, the boat will probably fit through but the fin keels will only be 2ft 8in by the time you pop out onto the Thames. 

[Simonafloat]

4 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

I've heard of twin keels, fin keels,long keels and bilge keels. What are twin fins please?

Let's call them twin keels.

2 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

If they are the same thing as fin keels, the boat will probably fit through but the fin keels will only be 2ft 8in by the time you pop out onto the Thames. 

So are we saying that the true depth of the canal is 2'8?

[MtB]

2 minutes ago, Simonafloat said:

Let's call them twin keels.

So are we saying that the true depth of the canal is 2'8?

Not really, we are saying the layer of slunge, grot, leaf mould, old bike frames etc that forms the bed of the canal gets denser and denser the further you penetrate it. 

[Simonafloat]

1 minute ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

Not really, we are saying the layer of slunge, grot, leaf mould, old bike frames etc that forms the bed of the canal gets denser and denser the further you penetrate it. 

Ok, well the keels are cast iron rather than fibreglass and they have a slight backwards sweep to them. They are very strong.

[Alan de Enfield]

6 minutes ago, Simonafloat said:

Ok, well the keels are cast iron rather than fibreglass and they have a slight backwards sweep to them. They are very strong.

And they are bolted thru into a GRP hull ?

[rusty69]

I don't know about dimensions on the Kennet and Avon, but my biggest worry would be if the keels/skeg/rudder were to dig in.

I suspect it wouldn't be as easy to get off the bottom as it is with a flat bottomed boat.

ETA.Your boat may even sit lower in fresh water than salt (or perhaps thats just a myth)

Edited March 31, 2018 by rusty69

[MtB]

7 minutes ago, Simonafloat said:

Ok, well the keels are cast iron rather than fibreglass and they have a slight backwards sweep to them. They are very strong.

 

The risk is, although the canal was built to a depth of probably 5ft or so, CRT only see fit to maintain a clear depth of about 2ft 6in. So you may well get 7/8s of the way through and encounter a bit where is really IS shallow but few boats notice. You probably will get all the way through but I predict a few hairy moments when you get pretty firmly stuck. 

Oh and stopping will be a problem, as you won't be able to get close to the side.

[Simonafloat]

1 minute ago, Alan de Enfield said:

And they are bolted thru into a GRP hull ?

 

2 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

And they are bolted thru into a GRP hull ?

- yes, and they support the weight of the boat twice a day as the boat touches down with the tide. They take a lot of punishment over the course of a year, she's on a swinging mooring so is usually on the move when she takes the ground. I'm not overly concerned about hitting something at walking pace. The hull layup is over an inch thick with substantial reinforcement at the keels

[Alan de Enfield]

The K&A SHOULD be dredged to 7.6m x 1.1m according to C&RTs documents - however this may well be a little optimistic as the River Trent is supposed to maintained to 2metres (6 foot 6") but last year our keel hit (in the middle of the MNC) and we are 4' 6"

[MtB]

6 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

The K&A SHOULD be dredged to 7.6m x 1.1m according to C&RTs documents -

 

Very amusing.

[Simonafloat]

I think we'll give it a go at some stage, probably best if we don't set a concrete goal of reaching the thames. Just turn round if the going gets too difficult.

Lack of a weed hatch was my biggest concern tbh.

[rusty69]

3 minutes ago, Simonafloat said:

I think we'll give it a go at some stage, probably best if we don't set a concrete goal of reaching the thames. Just turn round if the going gets too difficult.

Lack of a weed hatch was my biggest concern tbh.

Have you got the ability to stick an outboard on the back?

[Alan de Enfield]

1 minute ago, Simonafloat said:

I think we'll give it a go at some stage, probably best if we don't set a concrete goal of reaching the thames. Just turn round if the going gets too difficult.

Lack of a weed hatch was my biggest concern tbh.

Just a thought - but if you are coming 'off lumpy water' do you have a BSSC and C&RT Licence ?

That area is the real 'hot spot' for licence enforcement and is regularly patrolled due to the large number of non-moving boats.

Would hate to see a fellow sailor ending up in trouble.

6 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Very amusing.

Maybe I should have posted it tomorrow ?

Their document stating this is "MOC Dimensions Navigation channel maintenance standards 2006"

[MtB]

6 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Their document stating this is "MOC Dimensions Navigation channel maintenance standards 2006"

 

Writing the document is a substitute for actually maintaining the channel at those dimensions, didn't you realise?

Something to be aspired towards, rather than actually done.

[Simonafloat]

8 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Just a thought - but if you are coming 'off lumpy water' do you have a BSSC and C&RT Licence ?

That area is the real 'hot spot' for licence enforcement and is regularly patrolled due to the large number of non-moving boats.

Would hate to see a fellow sailor ending up in trouble.

Maybe I should have posted it tomorrow ?

Their document stating this is "MOC Dimensions Navigation channel maintenance standards 2006"

Ah yes, the boat safety certificate.  No, she doesn't have one but yes she would if we took her inland.

[Bee]

There are sections near Bradford on Avon where the canal was repaired ages ago with a concrete bed, I don't know what the depth is there, (depends on water level anyway) but when I came along there a few years ago we scraped in a few places, we draw a bit less than 3 feet. I'm guessing that the cross section of the canal is not a 'V' but is flat across some of the channel. Can you take some weight off the boat if you have to? You may have to chuck the crew off and haul it on a rope so that it sits as high as poss in the water in places, I'm sure you know that thrashing the thing in gear will probably just force it down in the water. Personally I would have a go and see what happens, It'll probably be tricky in places but I would bet a tenner that its possible.

[adrianh]

Some of the concrete lined areas between Bath and Bradford on Avon are well under your draft other than in the Centre of the channel so nobody could pass you. Had the miss fortune to get behind a very large dutch barge that constantly ran aground and caused havoc 2 years ago. I would say the Bath end of the canal is totally unsuitable for your hull. The river from Bristol could also be a problem when low water levels.

[ditchcrawler]

1 hour ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

 

Oh and stopping will be a problem, as you won't be able to get close to the side.

I think that will be the biggest problem

[Horace42]

On balance it sounds a bit iffy to me. What would you do if you tried and got stuck/grounded. Turn round (if you can) and go back?

.....and come in from the English channel and Thames end.....or not bother at all ?

[dmr]

There are certainly a few boats on the K&A of at least 2 foot 8, and I suspect some at over 3 foot. I think there is one a about 3 foot 6. We are about 2 foot 6 static and can be 2 foot 10 or so underway (depending on water tank). You should have no major problems but there are a couple of shallow bridge 'oles and some obstructions so you might have to "plough yourself a groove" in a few spots. You mostly won't get in to the side except on visitor moorings and lock landings where you mostly will, but not always. The canal is not that wide in places and the concrete western section can be difficult if there are any moored up wider widebeams, or if you meet a widebeam moving. There are a few very wide boats on the K&A with some not so skillfull or considerate steerers. Some pounds can sometimes be low and if water is short or pumps are broken some pounds can remain low for days.

The lack of a weedhatch is not ideal though a lot of old working boats are similar. Prop foulings are not that common on the K&A but I suggest that you do not get a taste for canals and go to Birmingham.

..............Dave

 

[OldGoat]

You don't mention how long your boat is - and perhaps more importantly how long the mast is. Even stepped you may have some challenges in locks and round some corners?

[Drayke]

Don’t do it, either go around the coast and up the Thames, or get it lifted out and transported. Very shallow in a lot of places and you would find it difficult to Moore up close to the bank side. My boat has a draft of 30”-32” and if I get to close to the offside, when passing boats, I quite often run aground.

[mrsmelly]

2 hours ago, Simonafloat said:

. Just turn round if the going gets too difficult.

 

And with twin keels firmly embedded in the grott how do you propose to do that? Its not going to float off on the next tide. Surely when you own a proper boat you just take it the proper way by sea it will be a lovely little trip?