MtB Posted March 6, 2018 Report Share Posted March 6, 2018 10 minutes ago, WotEver said: I assumed that it was a temporary aberration and that normal service would be resumed shortly. Correct. All I need to do is a Factory Reset to restore it to original godawful performance! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicknorman Posted March 6, 2018 Report Share Posted March 6, 2018 1 hour ago, Mike the Boilerman said: Yes that is a big unknown. Cuthound holds the brand in high regard though. In addition I was too ignorant on the day I purchased them to think of measuring the SG and terminal voltage before buying them, so I may have been sold a pup. Yuasa certainly used to be a quality brand. But I think those days are long over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rusty69 Posted March 6, 2018 Report Share Posted March 6, 2018 (edited) After two years -My Yuasas were Yuasaless.My Banners were Bull.My US became U/S.My Exides were oxidised.My Trojans were a good work horse.But of course my Rolls were the Royce. Edited March 6, 2018 by rusty69 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan de Enfield Posted March 6, 2018 Report Share Posted March 6, 2018 1 minute ago, rusty69 said: My Yuasas- were Yuasaless after two years.My Banners were Bull.My US became U/S.My Exides were oxidised.My Trojans were a good work horse.But of course my Rolls were the Royce. And I bet your hoover sucks !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rusty69 Posted March 6, 2018 Report Share Posted March 6, 2018 1 minute ago, Alan de Enfield said: And I bet your hoover sucks !! Like an Electrolux Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Bob Posted March 6, 2018 Report Share Posted March 6, 2018 32 minutes ago, rusty69 said: After two years -My Yuasas were Yuasaless.My Banners were Bull.My US became U/S.My Exides were oxidised.My Trojans were a good work horse.But of course my Rolls were the Royce. I thought you were going to say your Rolls were Rusty. I never eat rusty rolls. Crusty, yes, but not rusty. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canals are us? Posted March 6, 2018 Author Report Share Posted March 6, 2018 (edited) 14 hours ago, nicknorman said: You say on shore hookup but the consequences of that depend on charging voltages etc. 15.5v for 3 hrs will be worth trying if there’s enough sun. You will be able to see if there is any upward trend on the sg, which should be 1.277. Of course the batteries should be fully charged before starting to equalise. Just went and managed to get the victron to do an equalise charge with a pencil as shown in the youtube video. Should I give it 3 hours in one or would you do 60 mins now and a couple of hours tomorrow? I'll then see if the sg has risen and take it from there. The victron is equalising at 15.6 volt and 3.7A is charging according to the NASA BM2. I have disconnected the 12 volt freezer and fridge just in case. I have learnt something new if you don't equalise Trojans they sulphate. When I buy 2 or 4 new ones how often should I equalise them? James Edited March 6, 2018 by canals are us? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBiscuits Posted March 6, 2018 Report Share Posted March 6, 2018 (edited) 27 minutes ago, canals are us? said: Just went and managed to get the victron to do an equalise charge with a pencil as shown in the youtube video. Should I give it 3 hours in one or would you do 60 mins now and a couple of hours tomorrow? I'll then see if the sg has risen and take it from there. The victron is equalising at 15.6 volt and 3.7A is charging according to the NASA BM2. I have disconnected the 12 volt freezer and fridge just in case. I have learnt something new if you don't equalise Trojans they sulphate. When I buy 2 or 4 new ones how often should I equalise them? James Just keep an eye and a hand around them. If they get mad hot or start boiling over, stop! When equalising, you are trying to make the batteries fizz hard enough to shift the crud* off the battery plates, but not hard enough to damage either the batteries or your boat. * That's the official technical term for plate sulphation Edited March 6, 2018 by TheBiscuits Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WotEver Posted March 6, 2018 Report Share Posted March 6, 2018 (edited) 30 minutes ago, canals are us? said: When I buy 2 or 4 new ones how often should I equalise them? When low or wide ranging specific gravity (>0.030) are detected after fully charging a battery. Copied from here (read it all): http://www.trojanbattery.com/tech-support/battery-maintenance/ 30 minutes ago, canals are us? said: I have learnt something new if you don't equalise Trojans any lead acid batteries they sulphate. Note the above edit. Edited March 6, 2018 by WotEver Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil. Posted March 6, 2018 Report Share Posted March 6, 2018 26 minutes ago, canals are us? said: Just went and managed to get the victron to do an equalise charge with a pencil as shown in the youtube video. Should I give it 3 hours in one or would you do 60 mins now and a couple of hours tomorrow? I'll then see if the sg has risen and take it from there. The victron is equalising at 15.6 volt and 3.7A is charging according to the NASA BM2. I have disconnected the 12 volt freezer and fridge just in case. I have learnt something new if you don't equalise Trojans they sulphate. When I buy 2 or 4 new ones how often should I equalise them? James I would think that it will take at least three hours, and probably more to recover them if they can be. You should keep equalising until the SG stops raising. Although 15.6 volts will do the job, it will take a long time as I believe the equalisation voltage recommended for t105s is actually around 16.2 volts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canals are us? Posted March 6, 2018 Author Report Share Posted March 6, 2018 Hi thanks everyone. I have read the advice on Trojans website. Should the vent caps be loosened? I am going to check to make sure not getting hot and if needed add de-ionised water levels topped up. In half an hour I'll take a SG reading and then every hour to see if any improvement. James 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicknorman Posted March 6, 2018 Report Share Posted March 6, 2018 1 minute ago, canals are us? said: Hi thanks everyone. I have read the advice on Trojans website. Should the vent caps be loosened? I am going to check to make sure not getting hot and if needed add de-ionised water levels topped up. In half an hour I'll take a SG reading and then every hour to see if any improvement. James They won’t get hot at 3.7A. Think about how much power you are putting in, about 50w into the entire bank and most of that is going to electrolysing the water into gas. Provided the current doesn’t increase substantially they will be fine. Normally a specialised equalise mode limits the charge current to quite low to protect against any overheating. No need to loosen the caps, they have vents built in. Loosening the caps can result in tiny splatters of acid on adjacent surfaces. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Bob Posted March 6, 2018 Report Share Posted March 6, 2018 5 minutes ago, canals are us? said: Hi thanks everyone. I have read the advice on Trojans website. Should the vent caps be loosened? I am going to check to make sure not getting hot and if needed add de-ionised water levels topped up. In half an hour I'll take a SG reading and then every hour to see if any improvement. James Greenie for taking an SG reading after midnight.....as long as you do! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicknorman Posted March 6, 2018 Report Share Posted March 6, 2018 40 minutes ago, canals are us? said: Just went and managed to get the victron to do an equalise charge with a pencil as shown in the youtube video. Should I give it 3 hours in one or would you do 60 mins now and a couple of hours tomorrow? I'll then see if the sg has risen and take it from there. The victron is equalising at 15.6 volt and 3.7A is charging according to the NASA BM2. I have disconnected the 12 volt freezer and fridge just in case. I have learnt something new if you don't equalise Trojans they sulphate. When I buy 2 or 4 new ones how often should I equalise them? James I would just give it the 3 hours, it’s unlikely to be too much! You can always check the sg whilst the equalise is in progress, nomneed to interrupt it. 15.6v is a bit low for cold batteries but it will do the job, just a little slower. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canals are us? Posted March 7, 2018 Author Report Share Posted March 7, 2018 13 minutes ago, nicknorman said: I would just give it the 3 hours, it’s unlikely to be too much! You can always check the sg whilst the equalise is in progress, nomneed to interrupt it. 15.6v is a bit low for cold batteries but it will do the job, just a little slower. A late night for me! Yes I wouldn't be surprised if they take longer than 3 hours. I'll be able to tell more if the SG rises or if stops that's it. The victron stopped the EC after an hour so put it back into EC mode! Off in a bit to take a reading on one cell. It would be nice if I could revive them, we'll see! as only need 2 new then to go with these. Thanks all. James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Bob Posted March 7, 2018 Report Share Posted March 7, 2018 24 minutes ago, canals are us? said: A late night for me! Yes I wouldn't be surprised if they take longer than 3 hours. I'll be able to tell more if the SG rises or if stops that's it. The victron stopped the EC after an hour so put it back into EC mode! Off in a bit to take a reading on one cell. It would be nice if I could revive them, we'll see! as only need 2 new then to go with these. Thanks all. James Very interested in what you find. Keep going Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canals are us? Posted March 7, 2018 Author Report Share Posted March 7, 2018 (edited) 34 minutes ago, Dr Bob said: Very interested in what you find. Keep going The SG readings are rising 0.15 approximately on 5 except 1 just gone up from 1.250 to 1.251. I'll update later. Battery 1 1 = 1.230 1.250 2 = 1.225 1.238 3 = 1.240 1.260 Battery 2. 4 = 1.230 1.245 5 = 1.230 1.245 6 = 1.250 1.251 New readings in blue. All the extra monitors add to more battery wiring! Needed 150A busbars on the lesser load items to fit it all. Battery threads not long enough! When I buy more batteries I'll add 95mm battery link cables up as probably needed for inverter load? As well as change blue cable to larger size to shunt. James Edited March 7, 2018 by canals are us? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canals are us? Posted March 7, 2018 Author Report Share Posted March 7, 2018 Battery 1 1 = 1.25.1 2 = 1.24.7 3 = 1.26.7 Battery 2 4 = 1.25.0 5 = 1.25.0 6 = 1.26.5 Gradually rising! James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canals are us? Posted March 7, 2018 Author Report Share Posted March 7, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, canals are us? said: Battery 1 1 = 1.25.1 1.26.0 2 = 1.24.7 1.25.0 3 = 1.26.7 1.27.0 Battery 2 4 = 1.25.0 1.25.5 5 = 1.25.0 1.25.0 6 = 1.26.5 1.27.0 Gradually rising! James Well after 5 SG tests blue above is the latest readings at just gone 3am over 4 hours. What are your thoughts? Cell 5 not moving upwards in the last 3 tests. Thinking carry on and keep seeing if they continue to rise? Can you mix new batteries with these sulphated batteries above or would it cause issues with new? Off to bed now!! James Edited March 7, 2018 by canals are us? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rusty69 Posted March 7, 2018 Report Share Posted March 7, 2018 3 hours ago, canals are us? said: What are your thoughts? Get some sleep. And if you can't, count some electric sheep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Bob Posted March 7, 2018 Report Share Posted March 7, 2018 53 minutes ago, rusty69 said: Get some sleep. And if you can't, count some electric sheep. ...or maybe count electrons. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WotEver Posted March 7, 2018 Report Share Posted March 7, 2018 4 hours ago, canals are us? said: Well after 5 SG tests blue above is the latest readings at just gone 3am over 4 hours. What are your thoughts? Cell 5 not moving upwards in the last 3 tests. Thinking carry on and keep seeing if they continue to rise? Can you mix new batteries with these sulphated batteries above or would it cause issues with new? Off to bed now!! James Yes, try some more. As Nick and others have said, 15.6V is a pretty gentle equalise so just keep your eye on heat and electrolyte levels and you’ll be fine. As long as any cells are improving then you’re helping. It’s possible that the sluggish cells will pick up a bit eventually. Not a problem adding new batteries to these slightly tired ones, but keep an eye on the one containing cell 5 unless it improves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Bob Posted March 7, 2018 Report Share Posted March 7, 2018 4 hours ago, canals are us? said: Well after 5 SG tests blue above is the latest readings at just gone 3am over 4 hours. What are your thoughts? Cell 5 not moving upwards in the last 3 tests. Thinking carry on and keep seeing if they continue to rise? Can you mix new batteries with these sulphated batteries above or would it cause issues with new? Off to bed now!! James Thoughts: First thing is how good is the data to draw conclusions? Repeatability of the data looks good. Each cell seems to be giving similar behaviour so from that I would conclude your method of test is good and you can use the results. We dont know how accurate the results are ie there could be an 0.05 offset due to miscalibrated kit (not trying to be clever here!!!) so we just dont know if 1.270 means 100% or 90% charge. Did you say how you are measuring the SG. If it is by floating balls then you can always have an offset. Anyway dont worry, the method looks ok to look at variation in cells but maybe not absolute capacity. Now, temperature. The SG will drop as you go up in temp hence if the batteries were cold when you started - what temp?- they will now be hotter therefore the SG will be lower so effectively the SGs have risen more than you are showing on the table. Let us know the temps if you can. This is where an infrequent red thermometer comes in handy. So where are you then? It may be that the 1.270 cells are more or less up to 100% and I would guess unless you have a big offset that you are above 95% if the batteries are up to 30°C. The cells down at 1.250 are likely 10-15% below the 1.270 ones so you have recovered maybe 15-20% of capacity (depending on how much temp increase you have had). Hence some cells are still down. I have no experience of equalising but I would repeat again in a day or so.....let the batteries cool. Next time try and estimate start and finish temps. This next equalise will tell you if you have an offset ie the 1.270 cells should achieve full capacity so then you know what the 'full' SG is on your measuring kit. I doubt if they will go up much, and you can then see if the other ones catch up. They are not that bad. Should easily be able to add more batteries once you are done. Now, I must try and do an equalise on mine. I notice wotever has posted while writing this so interesting to see what he has written as he is the expert but I am good at data. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicknorman Posted March 7, 2018 Report Share Posted March 7, 2018 5 hours ago, canals are us? said: Well after 5 SG tests blue above is the latest readings at just gone 3am over 4 hours. What are your thoughts? Cell 5 not moving upwards in the last 3 tests. Thinking carry on and keep seeing if they continue to rise? Can you mix new batteries with these sulphated batteries above or would it cause issues with new? Off to bed now!! James Yes the general idea is to keep going until there is no more sg rise. Great that you’ve got some cells up to 1.27. Yes you can mix these with new batteries, just be sure to keep the old batteries as a series pair, and the new batteries as a series pair. You want to avoid an old battery in series with a new battery. Slightly sulphated batteries behave like good batteries but with less capacity. So quite ok to have them in parallel with good batteries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Smith Posted March 7, 2018 Report Share Posted March 7, 2018 I watched a YouTube video on desulphating batteries and it can take up to 3 weeks to fully recover, Google it and make your own mind up, they are not selling anything. Neil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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