How is your side hatch secured?

[Froggy]

T

2 hours ago, luggsy said:

This is what we have done stainless steel brackets screwed through the steel doors 

That's a very neat solution that involves no unsightly drilling or screwing into the woodwork, I rather wish I'd seen this before I chose something else, although as Sea Dog suggests it might be useful to add further strength. I'm guessing that it does allow for some play in the doors though?

Edited March 22, 2018 by Froggy

[luggsy]

There are bolts top & bottom on both doors 

[ditchcrawler]

On 23/02/2018 at 01:33, Froggy said:

Are you talking of something along the lines of this: https://shop.rivercanalrescue.co.uk/shop/ShowProduct.aspx?Id=104160

or this: https://shop.rivercanalrescue.co.uk/shop/ShowProduct.aspx?Id=104164

EDIT: on closer inspection i don't think either of those would work.....

I used the top one to keep my old dog box shut

[Sea Dog]

10 minutes ago, Froggy said:

T

That's a very neat solution that involves no unsightly drilling or screwing into the woodwork, I rather wish I'd seen this before I chose something else, although as Sea Dog suggests it might be useful to add further strength. I'm guessing that it does allow for some play in the doors though?

I wasn't suggesting further strength, rather I was making a cautionary note about a padlock on what could be an emergency exit.  Luggsy leaves the lock off when he's onboard, but others may wish to consider that there's a potential delay between boarding and remembering to unlock the side hatch after popping to the shop or pub, or the possibly of forgetting completely. Rather than introducing the need to unlock a padlock into an emergency situation, I think the same level of security could be achieved by something which doesn't require a key as it remains inaccessible from the outside. 

[mark99]

 

Nut set in each side hatch.

 

 

Wood batten with long stud.

 

[Sea Dog]

18 minutes ago, mark99 said:

 

Nut set in each side hatch.

 

 

Wood batten with long stud.

 

You need a "green zone" marking on those gauges Mark, and while you're at it - have a tidy up! 

[Froggy]

4 hours ago, mark99 said:

 

Nut set in each side hatch.

 

 

Wood batten with long stud.

 

 

I'm not sure how well that would resist attack, but it's a very elegant solution. A lovely looking boat too. 

[Froggy]

15 hours ago, Sea Dog said:

I wasn't suggesting further strength, rather I was making a cautionary note about a padlock on what could be an emergency exit.  Luggsy leaves the lock off when he's onboard, but others may wish to consider that there's a potential delay between boarding and remembering to unlock the side hatch after popping to the shop or pub, or the possibly of forgetting completely. Rather than introducing the need to unlock a padlock into an emergency situation, I think the same level of security could be achieved by something which doesn't require a key as it remains inaccessible from the outside. 

I was referring to your comment about beefing up your own arrangements but thanks for your other useful points about not using a padlock on the inside when onboard. As you say, it would be asking for trouble in an emergency.

[WotEver]

8 minutes ago, Froggy said:

... not using a padlock on the inside when onboard.

Or ever. 

If someone gets in by another means and wants to get out via the side doors then a padlock simply means they’ll do more damage. And if they’re trying to get in through the side doors then a caribiner is every bit as secure as a padlock. 

The only person who will be affected by the padlock is yourself. 

[luggsy]

6 minutes ago, WotEver said:

Or ever. 

If someone gets in by another means and wants to get out via the side doors then a padlock simply means they’ll do more damage. And if they’re trying to get in through the side doors then a caribiner is every bit as secure as a padlock. 

The only person who will be affected by the padlock is yourself. 

Not so I have combination bolts on the bow / stern doors and sliding hatch all port holes when I lock it up you can not get in or out ,so if a small person smashed a port hole window and got in he would have to leave the same way , I know that if someone wanted to get in they could with a angle grinder 

[Froggy]

40 minutes ago, WotEver said:

Or ever. 

If someone gets in by another means and wants to get out via the side doors then a padlock simply means they’ll do more damage. And if they’re trying to get in through the side doors then a caribiner is every bit as secure as a padlock. 

The only person who will be affected by the padlock is yourself. 

Up to a point i agree, but padlocking the door that you haven't exited from on the inside means (assuming they got in through a window) that it would be less likely that they could walk away with large items.

Edited March 23, 2018 by Froggy

[WotEver]

2 minutes ago, Froggy said:

Up to a point i agree, but padlocking the door that you haven't exited from on the inside means (assuming they got in through a window) that it would be less likely that they could walk away with large items.

Fair enough. It just worries me that the first time you might need that exit in a hurry might be the first time you’ve forgotten to remove the padlock. 

[Froggy]

16 minutes ago, WotEver said:

Fair enough. It just worries me that the first time you might need that exit in a hurry might be the first time you’ve forgotten to remove the padlock. 

I do agree with this. I guess you just need to get into the habit of unlocking all doors and hatches as soon as you return to the boat. It's a shame that we have to go to such lengths for the very small minority who would even contemplate stealing from a boat.

[luggsy]

If there was a fire in the bedroom ( reverse layout )  we would exit through the stern doors , if there was a fire in the kitchen living bathroom area we would exit through the bow. Doors 

[Sea Dog]

3 minutes ago, luggsy said:

If there was a fire in the bedroom ( reverse layout )  we would exit through the stern doors , if there was a fire in the kitchen living bathroom area we would exit through the bow. Doors 

But what if a lion comes in through your back door and there's a crocodile in your cratch, eh?  Didn't think that through properly, did you!

Three emergency exits are better than two whether you can think of a scenario or not - that's the thing about emergencies: they are by their very nature unplanned and unexpected.  I wouldn't consider blocking one if I had more.

[Sea Dog]

1 hour ago, Froggy said:

I was referring to your comment about beefing up your own arrangements but thanks for your other useful points about not using a padlock on the inside when onboard. As you say, it would be asking for trouble in an emergency.

Ah, I see.  You're welcome M. Le Frog. Can't beat sharing ideas and knowledge, can you, and I've learned lots here from folk of all levels of experience.

[luggsy]

27 minutes ago, Sea Dog said:

But what if a lion comes in through your back door and there's a crocodile in your cratch, eh?  Didn't think that through properly, did you!

Three emergency exits are better than two whether you can think of a scenario or not - that's the thing about emergencies: they are by their very nature unplanned and unexpected.  I wouldn't consider blocking one if I had more.

A lion would not be able to come in through the back doors they are locked , if there was a crocodile in the cratch I would get out through the side hatch

[Froggy]

1 hour ago, Sea Dog said:

Ah, I see.  You're welcome M. Le Frog. Can't beat sharing ideas and knowledge, can you, and I've learned lots here from folk of all levels of experience.

Absolutely, this thread has been very instructive for me, providing solutions that i either wasn't aware of or wouldn't have thought of. Forums are imo one of the greatest gifts of the internet, bringing people, ideas, and indeed the whole world, closer together.

[Froggy]

On a slightly related note (because i'm not sure it's actually worth starting a new thread), we are now looking to improving the security of our gas cylinders. Our gas locker lid has no facility for locking, and although i'm sure a bit of work drilling through the metal would sort this out it would mean removing the gas cylinders to a safe place etc. Right now i'm looking for an easy fix and am considering just chaining and padlocking the two cylinders together, which would make them very difficult to remove from the locker due to the weight. Has anybody got any better suggestions? I'm assuming there are no potential safety issues around chaining two gas cylinders together (e.g. risk of sparks etc.?)

[Jen-in-Wellies]

Chaining the gas bottles together makezs more sense to me than locking the lid. There is easy access to the cylinder valves in an emergency. Many boats do have locked lids on their lockers. If there has ever been a case where the lid being locked has caused a problem in a real life emergency I've not heard of it. This subject seems to spark long discussions when it is raised, so be prepared. Can't remember what the boat safety scheme has to say on the subject but worth checking.

On my boat the gas locker lid isn't locked and the bottles are held by a ratchet strap to a steel pillar inside.

Jen

[Jen-in-Wellies]

Ok, just checked the bss pdf and it says all gas shut off and control devices have to be accessible, which to me means no padlock on the gas locker lid.

Jen

Edited March 30, 2018 by Jen-in-Wellies

[Froggy]

2 minutes ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

Chaining the gas bottles together makezs more sense to me than locking the lid. There is easy access to the cylinder valves in an emergency. Many boats do have locked lids on their lockers. If there has ever been a case where the lid being locked has caused a problem in a real life emergency I've not heard of it. This subject seems to spark long discussions when it is raised, so be prepared. Can't remember what the boat safety scheme has to say on the subject but worth checking.

On my boat the gas locker lid isn't locked and the bottles are held by a ratchet strap to a steel pillar inside.

Jen

Thanks for the thumbs-up on this, Jen. I guess a locked locker is a visual deterrent but you are right, in an emergency it could result in valuable lost time. I just need to be sure that connecting two cylinders together with heavy metal chain doesn't itself pose safety issues. It's highly unlikely imo, but having less than 18 months experience with boating i thought i'd run it by you lot.

1 minute ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

Ok, just checked the bss pdf and it says all gas shut off and regulation valves have to be accessible, which to me means no padlock on the gas locker lid.

Jen

Yep, i would interpret that the same way, thanks.

[Jen-in-Wellies]

I suppose a leaking valve could make an explosive mixture in the locker. The drain holes should be draining it out too, but you shoud be able to smell it. A spark from the chain hitting something could set it off, which with your face looking in would mean at least no eyebrows! You could put the chain inside some hose, a bit like the chain locks that motorbikers use.

Jen

[Froggy]

10 minutes ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

I suppose a leaking valve could make an explosive mixture in the locker. The drain holes should be draining it out too, but you shoud be able to smell it. A spark from the chain hitting something could set it off, which with your face looking in would mean at least no eyebrows! You could put the chain inside some hose, a bit like the chain locks that motorbikers use.

Jen

That's the sort of thing i was worrying about. An unlikely scenario, but not an impossible one. I'll have a good think about this, thanks.

[rusty69]

You can also get plastic covered bicycle cable,although probably not as secure as chain