Fridge/ Freezers 12 volt. and Inverter for washer.

[mrsmelly]

10 hours ago, canals are us? said:

Indeed it does look good.

Say I was using the washing machine and the 240 volt fridge or freezer started up during the wash would a 3000watt inverter cope with the fridge or freezer start up current and would it manage to power all 3 items?

https://www.photonicuniverse.com/en/catalog/full/162-3000W-12V-low-frequency-pure-sine-wave-off-grid-inverter-peak-power-9000W.html

Certainly a good price compared to Victron etc.

James

Take the others advice and mine. The inverter uses leccy on standby, your main problem is when on standby most cheap ones use humungous amounts of power doing nowt. I bought a boat with a stirling top end unit fitted and it took a massive 4 amps on standby powering nowt  I have owned two mastervolt set ups and the difference in quality and performance is staggering. Victron are ok also. They are more money in this case for a reason. I now have a brilliant bit of kit ten years old and still going strong full time liveaboard but no longer available in uk so pointless mentioning its make.

[canals are us?]

4 amps is a lot on standby. Is that hourly too or daily? See I'm clueless when it comes to inverters!

I have been looking at victron, this one.  http://powersavingsolutions.co.uk/product/victron-phoenix-3000va-12v-inverter-1/?keyword=&creative=182827374417&gclid=EAIaIQobChMItbvgqafu2AIVoRbTCh2ncQ1QEAQYASABEgK8Y_D_BwE I would get 5% off on first order. What is peoples preference, victron or mastervolt? Would both makes power the 3 appliances as I heard some Victron's can be temperamental on what appliance you try to run off them.

Just been looking at Mastervolt and the prices seem much higher than Victron equipment. Any good suppliers you would recommend for both makes?

It does make you think to just buy the cheap one at half the cost as mostly marina based 85% of the time and revert back to using 240 volt on landline!

Many thanks. James.

[mrsmelly]

10 minutes ago, canals are us? said:

4 amps is a lot on standby. Is that hourly too or daily? See I'm clueless when it comes to inverters!

I have been looking at victron, this one.  http://powersavingsolutions.co.uk/product/victron-phoenix-3000va-12v-inverter-1/?keyword=&creative=182827374417&gclid=EAIaIQobChMItbvgqafu2AIVoRbTCh2ncQ1QEAQYASABEgK8Y_D_BwE I would get 5% off on first order. What is peoples preference, victron or mastervolt? Would both makes power the 3 appliances as I heard some Victron's can be temperamental on what appliance you try to run off them.

Just been looking at Mastervolt and the prices seem much higher than Victron equipment. Any good suppliers you would recommend for both makes?

It does make you think to just buy the cheap one at half the cost as mostly marina based 85% of the time and revert back to using 240 volt on landline!

Many thanks. James.

I have a new victron in its box as a spare because it came at the right price, its a 2kva combi. Mastervolt are better they are awesome. Yes the Stirling was horrendous on power consumption. In the great scheme of things if twer me Id fit a mastervolt and have done with it after all boating is meant to be expensive innitt. I have had cheap inverters years ago which were pretty crap but as the years have moved on they may well be much better now?

[Stephen Jeavons]

Why not one of these for not a lot more? That way you get Inverter and charger in one and a no-break mains supply with the batteries filling in the peaks.

https://www.midlandchandlers.co.uk/store/category/1341/product/vv-006.aspx

EDIT: Also that 15% off deal they are offering at Midlands for purchases over £1K plus 15% off everything for 6 months is a pretty good deal if you're planning on buying a lot of stuff?

Edited January 23, 2018 by Stephen Jeavons

[Robbo]

21 minutes ago, canals are us? said:

4 amps is a lot on standby. Is that hourly too or daily? See I'm clueless when it comes to inverters!

In speed and distance amps is like MPH, Ah (ampere hour or amp hour) is like miles.

So a 4 amp standby would be 4 * 24 = 96 Ah

Edited January 23, 2018 by Robbo

[canals are us?]

4 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

I have a new victron in its box as a spare because it came at the right price, its a 2kva combi. Mastervolt are better they are awesome. Yes the Stirling was horrendous on power consumption. In the great scheme of things if twer me Id fit a mastervolt and have done with it after all boating is meant to be expensive innitt. I have had cheap inverters years ago which were pretty crap but as the years have moved on they may well be much better now?

It's a minefield out there! So many decisions! What output, make, combi, separate etc! My biggest fear is buying something and finding it doesn't power what I want it too!

I know the saying, "you get what you pay for" and in so many cases it's true.

James

[canals are us?]

10 minutes ago, Stephen Jeavons said:

Why not one of these for not a lot more? That way you get Inverter and charger in one and a no-break mains supply with the batteries filling in the peaks.

https://www.midlandchandlers.co.uk/store/category/1341/product/vv-006.aspx

Looks a good piece of kit! I quite like the all in one for neatness. At least it also charges the starter battery too like my cheap prestone charger.

Looks like this one only cheaper.

http://powersavingsolutions.co.uk/product/multiplus-123000120-50-230v-ve-bus-invertercharger/

9 minutes ago, Robbo said:

In speed and distance amps is like MPH, ah is like miles.

So a 4 amp usage would be 4 * 24 = 96 ah

One hell of a lot of power used nearly a whole battery in a day!

Edited January 23, 2018 by canals are us?

[philjw]

1 minute ago, canals are us? said:

One hell of a lot of power used nearly a whole battery in a day!

Or 2 if you only go to 50% discharge

[mrsmelly]

6 minutes ago, canals are us? said:

Looks a good piece of kit! I quite like the all in one for neatness. At least it also charges the starter battery too like my cheap prestone charger.

You will be able to buy it cheaper just about anywhere!!

[canals are us?]

2 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

You will be able to buy it cheaper just about anywhere!!

Indeed, looks like this one.

http://powersavingsolutions.co.uk/product/multiplus-123000120-50-230v-ve-bus-invertercharger/

James

[Stephen Jeavons]

1 minute ago, canals are us? said:

Indeed, looks like this one.

http://powersavingsolutions.co.uk/product/multiplus-123000120-50-230v-ve-bus-invertercharger/

James

No it doesn't. Take another look. Also don't forget to deduct 15% off the price as per my post 29 above

[Stephen Jeavons]

18 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

You will be able to buy it cheaper just about anywhere!!

Midlands are saying on the website that they'll match or better anyone else's price for the same thing. So to me that means you wont get it cheaper anywhere else. Also don't forget about the 15% deal.

[canals are us?]

11 minutes ago, Stephen Jeavons said:

Midlands are saying on the website that they'll match or better anyone else's price for the same thing. So to me that means you wont get it cheaper anywhere else. Also don't forget about the 15% deal.

The offer of 15% off and discount for 6 months isn't a bad offer. Just out of interest is this the same one?

 https://www.batterymegastore.co.uk/victron-pmp123020001.html

At least with Midlands you can collect and if faulty under warranty hopefully still around!

What power does a victron use in standby?

James

Edited January 23, 2018 by canals are us?

[mrsmelly]

15 minutes ago, Stephen Jeavons said:

Midlands are saying on the website that they'll match or better anyone else's price for the same thing. So to me that means you wont get it cheaper anywhere else. Also don't forget about the 15% deal.

Everything they sell is more expensive than anywhere else. I only use them as a very last resort for that reason. Why not just sell at a similar price to everyone else in the first place? Their freaky Friday sales days just brings prices down to what they are available at elsewhere anyway. I am looking at a particular cooker at the moment a cheap one at Midland swindlers its £420 I have found it at several places for £239 and nowhere else can I find it anywhere close to swindlers prices. I bought a prop from them couple of years ago as it was there and available when I needed it so they do have their uses.

[Stephen Jeavons]

10 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

Everything they sell is more expensive than anywhere else. I only use them as a very last resort for that reason. Why not just sell at a similar price to everyone else in the first place? Their freaky Friday sales days just brings prices down to what they are available at elsewhere anyway. I am looking at a particular cooker at the moment a cheap one at Midland swindlers its £420 I have found it at several places for £239 and nowhere else can I find it anywhere close to swindlers prices. I bought a prop from them couple of years ago as it was there and available when I needed it so they do have their uses.

Point taken. Still, so long as they are prepared to match everyone else's price you don't pay their initial inflated price and as mentioned earlier, they'll be there for a while should you have problems.

 

[Stephen Jeavons]

23 minutes ago, canals are us? said:

What power does a victron use in standby?

Something I've never measured on mine. There are some specs for it on the Midlands website If you can figure which is relevant? Anyone else know?  

[Dr Bob]

7 minutes ago, Stephen Jeavons said:

Something I've never measured on mine. There are some specs for it on the Midlands website If you can figure which is relevant? Anyone else know?  

Ive got the Victron pheonix combi 2KW and that uses 1.7A with no draw other than the fridge with no compressor running then 5A when the compressor kicks in. My victron is 15years old so maybe the newer ones are better. I will try ours tomorrow with everything turned off and get back to you. Mrs Bob's watching telly so cant do it now.

[Robbo]

5 minutes ago, Dr Bob said:

Ive got the Victron pheonix combi 2KW and that uses 1.7A with no draw other than the fridge with no compressor running then 5A when the compressor kicks in. My victron is 15years old so maybe the newer ones are better. I will try ours tomorrow with everything turned off and get back to you. Mrs Bob's watching telly so cant do it now.

The power saving option may need enabling.  I have the 12/2000/120 which is prob the same age

Edited January 23, 2018 by Robbo

[canals are us?]

19 minutes ago, Dr Bob said:

Ive got the Victron pheonix combi 2KW and that uses 1.7A with no draw other than the fridge with no compressor running then 5A when the compressor kicks in. My victron is 15years old so maybe the newer ones are better. I will try ours tomorrow with everything turned off and get back to you. Mrs Bob's watching telly so cant do it now.

Thanks, it will be interesting to know.

Anyone have a victron powering a washing machine? What victron model and washer are you using?

What power output of a generator would you need to power the 120amp battery charger built into the inverter if say using it in winter? Would I be better off buying a same spec but lower output built in charger if they do one? 

James

Edited January 23, 2018 by canals are us?

[peterboat]

Think I will stick with the 12 volt fridge freezer and no inverter running, to running a 240 volt fridge freezer with inverter, it will save me a fortune in the long run with all those knackered batteries and constant recharging!! and the cost od all that fuel doing it!! nightmare to say the least...................... and then you tell us that is the best way to go ha I thought we all knew that the experts are always wrong look at Brexit .

[Dr Bob]

1 hour ago, Robbo said:

The power saving option may need enabling.  I have the 12/2000/120 which is prob the same age

How do I do that? Cant see it in the manual. Never find things in the fridge either.

[Dr Bob]

1 hour ago, canals are us? said:

Thanks, it will be interesting to know.

Anyone have a victron powering a washing machine? What victron model and washer are you using?

What power output of a generator would you need to power the 120amp battery charger built into the inverter if say using it in winter? Would I be better off buying a same spec but lower output built in charger if they do one? 

James

See posts 2 and 42 for our kit. Washing machine is a Beko.

If you get a 2KW inverter, it will not run a washing machine that is cold fill and rated at 2.3KW like ours if the machine has to heat the water ie a 30°C wash. Two options. Get a bigger inverter viz 3KW or fill the washing machine with some hot water from a tap - lots of ways to do this. At first I thought this would be a problem and was thinking of getting a bigger inverter but on talking with loads of people, a 3Kw one will mean drawing 200A+ from the  batteries (we only see a max of 150A out). I am convinced the short half life of lead acids is helped by high discharge (undercharging obvioulsly the main cause) and you'll need to put that power used to heat the water by battery Amps back in - not always easy with no sun.

As I said previously, we do have lots of 240v kit but are just sensible about what to run with what. It is not a drama. I will stick to the 2KW inverter and not go larger until I am totally convinced I am managing the battery life properly.

3Kw inverters are significantly more expensive than 2Kw ones.

[Johny London]

1 hour ago, Dr Bob said:

Ive got the Victron pheonix combi 2KW and that uses 1.7A with no draw other than the fridge with no compressor running then 5A when the compressor kicks in. My victron is 15years old so maybe the newer ones are better. I will try ours tomorrow with everything turned off and get back to you. Mrs Bob's watching telly so cant do it now.

And I've got the Phoenix multi 3000 - never tried enabling power saving mode and I can't tell you how much it self consumes - but I will soon find out as an ammeter is awaiting fitting!

What I can say is it runs everything you throw at it and is a brilliant piece of kit. I picked mine up on ebay for about £700 - have you thought of going that route?

[canals are us?]

3 hours ago, Johny London said:

And I've got the Phoenix multi 3000 - never tried enabling power saving mode and I can't tell you how much it self consumes - but I will soon find out as an ammeter is awaiting fitting!

What I can say is it runs everything you throw at it and is a brilliant piece of kit. I picked mine up on ebay for about £700 - have you thought of going that route?

Good to hear. I have looked on ebay and battery mega store has the same one and £1,178.00 https://www.batterymegastore.co.uk/victron-pmp123020001.html

I cant see any of that output for £700. I have emailed MC to see what is their best price, we'll see what happens.

Dr Bob my washer dryer uses a max of 2050 watt while washing and drying. I presume less while washing as my machine has hot fill as well. Plan though for it to run Fridge, freezer and washer though so thinking safer with the larger inverter.

James

Edited January 23, 2018 by canals are us?

[WotEver]

Don’t forget with all this talk of large inverters that whatever you take out of the Batteries has to be put back in. You have a theoretical maximum charge with the two alternators paralleled of 1700W so, allowing for inefficiencies, any 230V load exceeding say 1500A will be depleting the batteries even with the engine running above tickover. 

As well as thinking about inverters you need to also consider what form of battery monitoring you’re going to have.