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Emz798

Easy insulation suggestions for narrowboat bedroom

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24 minutes ago, WotEver said:

I recall that when I had a stint selling ABS boxes (among other things) we used to advise heating the boxes to {some figure I can’t recall} degrees C prior to punching holes in them if you wanted a neat job with no white stress marks. If I recall correctly they’d never become a gooey blob but would soften somewhat. 

I know very little about ABS (acrylonitrile-butadiene-styrene) but it is a blend of crystaline units and rubber units. Heating it will allow the crystalline bits to turn amorphous and hence no white stress marks. Dont know much about any of the plastics with an SG of higher than 1 - more a polyolefins man!

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As stated condensation is the result of moisture ladened air coming in contact with a cold surface. A product such as Duponts` AirGuard is designed to prevent that. Insulation is designed to prevent heat migrating towards the cold surface. 

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Thank you for the recommendations, it sounds like either Celotex or 3M Thinsulate may be the best options and thanks smileypete for the idea to look on ebay for surplus or offcuts I hadn't thought of that. I had naively assumed that shops like B&Q wouldn't sell insulation that could be particularly flammable but of course the discussion above show that clearly isn't the case...Although I think that if a fire ever reached the boat bedroom and I was in it I'd already be screwed (as there is no exit), something less flammable may give me time to grab the engine room fire extinguisher and get to an exit. Hopefully the fire alarm would alert me before any of that was necessary however!

Regarding vapour barriers I now realise this may be necessary to stop moist air getting in or behind the insulation and creating condensation and rot, I will look into Duponts -thanks for the product suggestion. I also realise that this means sufficiently thick/good insulation to stop condensation occurring on the vapour barrier. We're not very keen on carpeting (previous owner had carpet which turned out to be full of rotten and moth ridden and was a nightmare to get off) and the wood has already been oiled in preparation for the walls so hopefully that should all be sufficient.

After analysing our condensation problem we've realised that it is mainly due to cooking, even though we have the windows open etc. the cooking vapour seems to make its way to a particular corner of the bedroom (the coldest surfaces in the boat). So I think putting up a curtain between kitchen and bedroom may help further prevent the problem. 

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1 hour ago, Emz798 said:

After analysing our condensation problem we've realised that it is mainly due to cooking, even though we have the windows open etc. the cooking vapour seems to make its way to a particular corner of the bedroom (the coldest surfaces in the boat). So I think putting up a curtain between kitchen and bedroom may help further prevent the problem. 

As might a 12V extractor fan. Perhaps fitted into a mushroom (if it’s not going to decrease Your fixed high level ventilation too much). 

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On 1/14/2018 at 09:11, cuthound said:

I would use 3M Thinsulate. It is effective, easy to fix and above all designed for the job.

https://www.marine-chandlery.com/search.asp?cid=41488

I have thinsulate and its one layer on the hull the other on the wood cladding, I dont think its as good as the sprayfoam insulation on the rear section of the boat, also it allows vapour to hit the hull not good

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1 hour ago, peterboat said:

I have thinsulate and its one layer on the hull the other on the wood cladding, I dont think its as good as the sprayfoam insulation on the rear section of the boat, also it allows vapour to hit the hull not good

Thinsulate is meant to be glued to the steel and has an integral vapour barrier, to prevent "vapour from hitting the hull". Is yours installed correctly? 

http://www.sikaflex.co.uk/thinsulate

Mine has been in place for over 10 years without problems.

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1 hour ago, peterboat said:

I have thinsulate and its one layer on the hull the other on the wood cladding, I dont think its as good as the sprayfoam insulation on the rear section of the boat, also it allows vapour to hit the hull not good

I think with Thinsulate you would need a well sealed vapour barrier on top, prior to cladding it. The Thinsulate would then keep the cladding warm, whilst the vapour barrier would prevent moisture laden air access to the cold steel. 

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7 hours ago, cuthound said:

Thinsulate is meant to be glued to the steel and has an integral vapour barrier, to prevent "vapour from hitting the hull". Is yours installed correctly? 

http://www.sikaflex.co.uk/thinsulate

Mine has been in place for over 10 years without problems.

 

7 hours ago, WotEver said:

I think with Thinsulate you would need a well sealed vapour barrier on top, prior to cladding it. The Thinsulate would then keep the cladding warm, whilst the vapour barrier would prevent moisture laden air access to the cold steel. 

It had to be removed at the rear of the boat when it was stretched, the steel was already going rusty where it was removed [steel primed]

I have put liners in now so that water vapour goes straight out of the vents the thinsolite had a black material on it so I am assuming this is the vapour barrier?

I am sure thinsolite is good but the rear of the boat with sprayfoam seems warmer who knows maybe its my imagination.

The reason I am interested in this thread is because the bathtub has to be insulated and I am looking at the best way of doing it

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I used celotex stuck to the hull with silicone dot and dabs then a small air gap behind the ply lining, and we don't suffer condensation, the silver foil on the celotex acts as a vapour barrier.

Neil

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8 hours ago, Neil Smith said:

the silver foil on the celotex acts as a vapour barrier.

Providing you tape all the joints with the appropriate foil tape.

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On 15/01/2018 at 11:27, Chas78 said:

I am using Thermall Reflective Radiator Insulation from B&Q £5 per 5m roll ;) 

Thanks but from what I now understand this isn't good insulation at all (you can compare the R values to other insulation materials and see this). Instead it is meant only to reflect radiant heat (so behind a radiator) or as a vapour barrier on top of insulation (such as celotex or rock wool). 

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On 15/01/2018 at 11:27, Chas78 said:

I am using Thermall Reflective Radiator Insulation from B&Q £5 per 5m roll ;) 

There is a good reason why your insulation costs about £1 per m2 and celotex about £10 per m2.  Something to think about when insulating your boat.

  • Greenie 1

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4 hours ago, Emz798 said:

(you can compare the R values to other insulation materials and see this)

Not forgetting that the R value is a measure of the resistance to heat transfer (higher is better) whereas the U value is a measure of the rate of heat transfer (lower is better).

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8 hours ago, David Mack said:

Providing you tape all the joints with the appropriate foil tape.

Exactly what I did with proper celotex tape that you can buy cheaply from tool station.

Neil

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I'm only doing behind my sink unit as the rest of the boat is insulated with Extratherm and rockwool so a couple of rolls of the cheap insulation will do as a moisture barrier from the cold steel behind the pipework etc  

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