Smoke on The water

[Heartland]

I read the article and wondered why people make such comments, Has there been a time shift to another dimension perhaps? Our society has created the NIMBY culture where an inherent selfishness has become part of our everyday lives, in fact it is worse certain life styles have made the USP (Utterly Selfish Person) a reality!

It is also a reversion to the past, of the times of the haves and have not's. With canal heritage we try to reflect on, and some times relive, the past, yet there were many dark eddies in the navigable waterways of this period. They were a fertile source of characters and situation in the works of Charles Dickens and other authors. Today such belief seem to have floated back to the surface from the bottom mud where they have lain for generations. 

Personally I find the smell of wood smoke, quite in keeping with the the modern boating scene particularly on a winter walk along the towpath. There is something "earthy" about the smell. Those on the Cam should be grateful of the boaters that use that navigation and the money they spend in the local shops.

Another smell is that found, from the past, is when a steam locomotive passes by. That odour of smoke and steam is  a pleasant reminder of an age when steam engines were the prevalent source of power. Fortunately the numbers in those days are no more, but their replacement the internal combustion engine has become a serious pollutant in the modern world. I wonder how many of those who walk along the Cam enjoy the smell and noise of the modern motorway?  

Edited January 4, 2018 by Heartland

[nb Innisfree]

Ah, the nostalgic whiff of an open sewer. 

[Graham Davis]

4 minutes ago, nb Innisfree said:

A Nissan Leaf could manage those trips and recharge from a 13amp house socket - about 10 miles per hour charging, so around 5hrs.

So it will take 5 hours to recharge............wow!! That is really useful.............NOT
What happens if I need to do that trip twice? For example I get taken to the station 20 mies away in the morning, because there are no buses to the station, and then need picking up 4 hours later, whilst my wife needs the car inbetween to go shopping, at a different place?
And how do I charge said car at home, where we have no drive, no garage with power, no charging points, and have to park at the road side, so would need to leave a lead across the pavement, which we are not allowed to do?

As said, as usual people are totally forgetting that many of us do not live in urban areas.

[nb Innisfree]

6 minutes ago, Graham Davis said:

So it will take 5 hours to recharge............wow!! That is really useful.............NOT
What happens if I need to do that trip twice? For example I get taken to the station 20 mies away in the morning, because there are no buses to the station, and then need picking up 4 hours later, whilst my wife needs the car inbetween to go shopping, at a different place?
And how do I charge said car at home, where we have no drive, no garage with power, no charging points, and have to park at the road side, so would need to leave a lead across the pavement, which we are not allowed to do?

As said, as usual people are totally forgetting that many of us do not live in urban areas.

Install a charging point and charge much quicker or have a charge point installed roadside, it will prob be a standard procedure in a decade's time. 

It's coming. 

ETA: You could instead join mrsmelly and keep an old diesel car on the road and top it up from a ch tank, would cost you though. 

Edited January 4, 2018 by nb Innisfree

[mrsmelly]

10 minutes ago, nb Innisfree said:

Ah, the nostalgic whiff of an open sewer. 

Theres just been an article on the local news showing how a bloke powers a gas lamp at the rear of his property purely from dog poo. It works well so the way forward is gas lighting as it look like it could easily be rolled out on a larger scale. I suppose though some tree hugger would then complain about burning gas in the atmosphere

[Heartland]

Ah the mention of sewers. Well there was a time when all sorts of effluent discharged into rivers and canal, and still do by accident. Yes this was another feature of Victorian waterways. The canal carriers of the time had to endure the black murky waters of canals like the Warwick & Birmingham and the BCN. Fortunately local boards of Health did much to clean up such hazards, though even this type of control did not come into force until many lost their lives through the two Cholera outbreaks.

[nb Innisfree]

9 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

Theres just been an article on the local news showing how a bloke powers a gas lamp at the rear of his property purely from dog poo. It works well so the way forward is gas lighting as it look like it could easily be rolled out on a larger scale. I suppose though some tree hugger would then complain about burning gas in the atmosphere

Rolled out? Heh heh I see what you did there.

ETA: I once saw on TV a rural Chinese family taking methane fro the pigs below and burning it at low pressure on a homemade stove for cooking. 

Edited January 4, 2018 by nb Innisfree

[nb Innisfree]

We could of course start burning more coal for electricity.

As good old Donald said "... nice clean coal" 

[Graham Davis]

1 hour ago, nb Innisfree said:

Install a charging point and charge much quicker or have a charge point installed roadside, it will prob be a standard procedure in a decade's time. 

It's coming. 

ETA: You could instead join mrsmelly and keep an old diesel car on the road and top it up from a ch tank, would cost you though. 

You really don't get it do you?
People can't just "install a charge point".
I cannot guarantee parking outside my house.
The Council will not allow me to have a dropped kerb fitted, due to where my house is, so I cannot have a drive.
The electricity company refuse to bring power to our rented garages, and the Council refuse to sell them to us.
Outside my garage is the ONLY place I can guarantee to park. It is too far from the house to run an extension cable.
The electricity company have also stated that the supply to our road is inadequate for a charging point and it is us that would have to pay for an up-gradeat the moment.

Whilst modifications MAY happen within the next decade in urban areas it will not happen that quickly in rural areas, simply because there is not the money to pay for it.

And for your information I drive a 2 year old Euro 6 diesel because there is not a small petrol car that will tow my caravan, and a 30 year old petrol car on the weekend!

[mrsmelly]

40 minutes ago, Graham Davis said:

You really don't get it do you?
People can't just "install a charge point".
I cannot guarantee parking outside my house.
The Council will not allow me to have a dropped kerb fitted, due to where my house is, so I cannot have a drive.
The electricity company refuse to bring power to our rented garages, and the Council refuse to sell them to us.
Outside my garage is the ONLY place I can guarantee to park. It is too far from the house to run an extension cable.
The electricity company have also stated that the supply to our road is inadequate for a charging point and it is us that would have to pay for an up-gradeat the moment.

Whilst modifications MAY happen within the next decade in urban areas it will not happen that quickly in rural areas, simply because there is not the money to pay for it.

And for your information I drive a 2 year old Euro 6 diesel because there is not a small petrol car that will tow my caravan, and a 30 year old petrol car on the weekend!

We have and always have had the huge problem in the uk that the majority of people in powerful positions think that London and the big cities, especialy London IS the uk. Many of them have no clue how many people do not live in nor would ever wish to live in such places, nor how different transport needs are in our huge areas of countryside and how many thousands of people are like you that their " Ideals " simply will not fit. Even in rural areas huge numbers of people cannot guarantee a parking space each evening god knows where all these leccy plug in points are going to appear in bigger towns. Perhaps it will be like the oxygen masks on air liners and they will simply drop out of the sky above where you park?

[Chewbacka]

All part of the great plan to reduce car ownership

[nb Innisfree]

1 hour ago, Graham Davis said:

You really don't get it do you?
People can't just "install a charge point".
I cannot guarantee parking outside my house.
The Council will not allow me to have a dropped kerb fitted, due to where my house is, so I cannot have a drive.
The electricity company refuse to bring power to our rented garages, and the Council refuse to sell them to us.
Outside my garage is the ONLY place I can guarantee to park. It is too far from the house to run an extension cable.
The electricity company have also stated that the supply to our road is inadequate for a charging point and it is us that would have to pay for an up-gradeat the moment.

Whilst modifications MAY happen within the next decade in urban areas it will not happen that quickly in rural areas, simply because there is not the money to pay for it.

And for your information I drive a 2 year old Euro 6 diesel because there is not a small petrol car that will tow my caravan, and a 30 year old petrol car on the weekend!

What I do get is all this will take time, just how long I've no idea but the idea that folk in your position will be left out of the loop is silly, ok at the present it's not viable for you to have electricity to your garage but it will be with the appropriate legislation, maybe not in a decade but two decades I'm sure. 

We'll just have to wait and see. 

Why have you been refused a drop kerb? 

Edited January 4, 2018 by nb Innisfree

[peterboat]

Its amazing I ran my renault Twizy for two years for free charged it from my boat using solar or at the supermarket, Meadowhall or various other places that had charging points. But a bunch of dinosaurs just dont think its possible when the reality is that everyday, more electric cars hit the road and IC cars especially  diesels decline. The future is electric and you lot turning purple because you dont want it to happen wont stop it

[Graham Davis]

15 minutes ago, nb Innisfree said:

What I do get is all this will take time, just how long I've no idea but the idea that folk in your position will be left out of the loop is silly, ok at the present it's not viable for you to have electricity to your garage but it will be with the appropriate legislation, maybe not in a decade but two decades I'm sure. 

We'll just have to wait and see. 

Why have you been refused a drop kerb? 

But you said that this will all happen in the next decade. Yes, I suspect you are right it will work in the big cities, but it will take a lot longer than that to get out to villages like Bontdolgadfan or Staylittle (look them up).

No dropped kerb because we would have to access into a passing place on a narrow road. 2 off us have applied and both of us have been refused for the same reason, and is why we have to park at the garages along the road.

 

[nb Innisfree]

15 minutes ago, Graham Davis said:

But you said that this will all happen in the next decade. Yes, I suspect you are right it will work in the big cities, but it will take a lot longer than that to get out to villages like Bontdolgadfan or Staylittle (look them up).

No dropped kerb because we would have to access into a passing place on a narrow road. 2 off us have applied and both of us have been refused for the same reason, and is why we have to park at the garages along the road.

 

Did I say that? If I did I meant a majority would be driving EVs.

Not all infrastructure in place but a good portion of it. 

ETA: Naughty boy! I didn't say that, I said roadside charge points will be common in a decade, the rest of it in 10 - 20 years. 

Edited January 4, 2018 by nb Innisfree

[Jim Riley]

Why do people with cars buy houses without parking? Bit like bell haters buying a house next to the church tower, boat haters getting a house next to the canal. I think they enjoy grumbling.

A fairly small petrol car can tow a Freedom Jetstream Prima, 750kg. I know, I've got one. Other smaller and lighter caravans are available. I'm waiting for a phev that will tow nearer 1tonne. The latest Prius has a towing capacity of 700kg. 

[nb Innisfree]

24 minutes ago, peterboat said:

Its amazing I ran my renault Twizy for two years for free charged it from my boat using solar or at the supermarket, Meadowhall or various other places that had charging points. But a bunch of dinosaurs just dont think its possible when the reality is that everyday, more electric cars hit the road and IC cars especially  diesels decline. The future is electric and you lot turning purple because you dont want it to happen wont stop it

I never knew Nissan Leafs were EVs until recently, thought they were a numpty petrol nonentity! 

I've poked my head out of the primordial soup and it all looks good to me. 

Edited January 4, 2018 by nb Innisfree

[mrsmelly]

10 minutes ago, nb Innisfree said:

I never knew Nissan Leafs were EVs until recently, thought they were a numpty petrol nonentity! 

I've poked my head out of the primordial soup and it all looks good to me. 

Do you live in a house with a private drive/parking?

[peterboat]

12 minutes ago, nb Innisfree said:

I never knew Nissan Leafs were EVs until recently, thought they were a numpty petrol nonentity! 

I've poked my head out of the primordial soup and it all looks good to me. 

China is just going into it big style! Plus I was reading about a company that has designed some very clever electric drives for cars, will be going into production shortly as well. The change will take time but I suspect will accelerate very fast just like electric cars

[Graham Davis]

19 minutes ago, Jim Riley said:

Why do people with cars buy houses without parking? Bit like bell haters buying a house next to the church tower, boat haters getting a house next to the canal. I think they enjoy grumbling.

A fairly small petrol car can tow a Freedom Jetstream Prima, 750kg. I know, I've got one. Other smaller and lighter caravans are available. I'm waiting for a phev that will tow nearer 1tonne. The latest Prius has a towing capacity of 700kg. 

Because that was all that was available at the time we were buying.
And is quite common in this town.

[nb Innisfree]

14 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

Do you live in a house with a private drive/parking?

Of course, why would I want anything less? 

It's an ex council house, bit common but we're not proud. 

Edited January 4, 2018 by nb Innisfree

[mrsmelly]

5 minutes ago, nb Innisfree said:

Of course, why would I want anything less? 

It was easy to work out. Millions don't or dont want to such as myself its those millions that will make this electrical world impossible for a hell of a while yet. I do hope the introduction is done with more tact and over a longer period than the introduction of the Poll tax.

[Edders]

6 hours ago, mrsmelly said:

Hundreds of thousands of people live in very rural areas such as Lincolnshire, Scotland etc etc etc. They at present MUST use a car as most of these places have ZERO public transport. My mothers village in Yorkshire gets One bus A DAY each way, the list is endless. Swopping cars and hiring an extra one on minimum wages? We have a massively long way to go before leccy happens properly.  20 years as from last year............19 to go!!

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-news/102208/uk-facing-up-to-ev-charging-challenge?_mout=1&utm_campaign=autoexpress_newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_source=newsletter

This article from AutoExpress states that the UK added just one new public charging point for every 6 new plug-in cars sold in 2017.

Edited January 4, 2018 by Edders

[Peter X]

There probably is quite a future for this electric car charging approach, but I foresee the various technical problems taking a while to solve, and actual implementation taking longer than the estimates coming from its proponents, mostly because it takes time to plan and build all the stuff that's needed.

Providing the charging points isn't just going to be a problem in remote areas, although those will of course present great difficulty. In my crowded street, as in much of London, there are no designated parking spaces and car owners have to just park wherever there's a space at the time, often 50 yards away on the other side of the road. Running a cable from a car to the nearest lamppost would be quite a safety hazard, so there would need to be kerbside charging posts at frequent intervals, each capable of being used by whichever car is there at the time and billing accordingly. Possible but costly I'd imagine.

Existing domestic power circuits might sometimes be adequate to cope with higher use, sometimes not and money would need spending to upgrade. The same would apply to the mains supply down each street, the local substation and the grid supplying it, so the electricity companies would be kept busy for years dealing with the bottlenecks. Finally that leads us to what I think might be the biggest problem, generating the extra power. The UK already has a deficit of electricity, and the National Grid imports some through cables from France and the Netherlands and is building another line from Ramsgate to Belgium, according to a documentary about the Channel I saw recently. Even with that and the new power stations in the pipeline such as Hinckley Point, I wonder will there be enough?

If they start charging up electric cars all over Europe, will they still have surplus electricity they want to sell to us? This may not end well.

[Jim Riley]

There were comments earlier in the thread about using home battery banks to buffer demand, 10kwh in 9kwh out, and that this is a Bad Thing. Of course, if it's from the grid generated electrickery, but that sort of system is solar charged, Shirley. IKEA are selling systems. I keep contemplating adding a battery bank to my 2.4 kWh solar system at home. Prices are dropping.