disconnected solae

[p6rob]

This is quite long winded, so, the short version is:

I removed all my batteries this morning while it was dark. Thinking it was going to be a dull day, I didn't do anything about covering the solar panels.

As it's been quite sunny, will I have damaged the mppt controller or panels as there isn't a load.

Thanks in advance.

Rob.

The longer version:

For the last week or so I've been having issues with the boat engine (BMC 1.5) and electrics.

Since trying a few additional electrical devices, it's overheated a few times, the fan belt was a bit loose but that's now been tightened. and then, separately, the alternator stopped charging.

The ignition bulb wouldn't illuminate and I assumed the alternator was at fault but it turned out the bulb had blown.

So, thinking everything was sorted, I went and ran the engine for about six hours and for most of that time, the inverter, a tv and console were in use. When i got bored, I went to switch the engine off only to discover the temperature was right over the red and lifting the engine covers showed steam venting out the Bowman header tank.

Once it had cooled down a bit, I topped up the coolant and checked it would start, which it did. Breathing a sigh of relief, I thought I'd been lucky and got away with it. However, yesterday, when I attempted to start charging, it wouldn't go. The glow plugs all have voltage.

I dipped the tank and there's a good few inches of fuel and also drew off some fuel which looked good and clear.. Whether there is enough fuel to cover the tank outlet, I don't know but it was running when it overheated, before I realised it was overheating I had noticed a few stutters which might indicate low fuel level.

I've just gone and got 20 litres of diesel and will take the fully charged batteries back later this afternoon and see if it'll go but am now concerned the solar system might be damaged as well.

Thanks if you took the time to read this and more so if you can offer some glimmer of hope.

 

Rob

[Alan de Enfield]

Have you ever considered doing some preventative maintenance, or even daily engine checks ?

 

[p6rob]

2 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Have you ever considered doing some preventative maintenance, or even daily engine checks ?

 

Yes.

[Chewbacka]

If the open circuit voltage is greater than the mppt controller max input voltage then possibly you will have damaged it, however when the system was designed the open circuit voltage from the panels should be less than the max voltage the mppt controller can accept.  So if the solar system was designed properly you should be ok.  Note that normally you would never have panels connected to an mppt controller without the batteries being connected.

The normal rule for disconnecting the mppt controller is solar panels first, then batteries.  When connecting it's batteries first followed by solar panels.  When connecting or disconnecting solar panels it's best to do it either in low light or with the panels covered so as to minimise sparks and contact burn etc.   Not to mention electric shock, as some panel configurations can have open circuit voltages over 100V DC.

[Sea Dog]

34 minutes ago, p6rob said:

When i got bored, I went to switch the engine off only to discover....

Rob, do you take all of your 'engineering' decisions based on similar criteria?  If so, take a pause before fussing too much about your solar controller because much bigger issues will be along shortly!

Seriously, I'd recommend you do one of the RYA or RCR maintenance courses before you come to grief, because at the moment you appear to be stumbling about in the dark with little idea of the consequences of your actions. With your level of knowledge and mechanical sympathy,  the thought of you  "trying a few additional electrical devices"  is quite a scary one.  Sorry to be a bit negative here - I was aiming for constructive criticism, honest! 

PS. I do hope your solar controller survived!

[Dr Bob]

1 hour ago, p6rob said:

I dipped the tank and there's a good few inches of fuel and also drew off some fuel which looked good and clear.. Whether there is enough fuel to cover the tank outlet, I don't know but it was running when it overheated, before I realised it was overheating I had noticed a few stutters which might indicate low fuel level.
 

Rule number one. Keep enough diesel in the tank so you dont run out.

Sucking air into the fuel lines is straightforward to sort but it takes time and effort and maybe quite a bit of cranking which you dont want to be doing when you are trying to diagnose other problems. It is so easy not to run out of fuel.

I wonder what the root cause of all the problems is. It sounds like a number of things may have gone wrong at the same time (quite a few maybe) but is the root of the problem down to your batteries??? (Oh no!). You say you have taken them off the boat to fully charge. That says they were far from fully charged. You assumed the Alternator was not working, but it seems it may have been and just a blown bulb. If the Alternator was working, why then were the batteries not charged, and perhaps why you were having problems with the electrics (hint, the invertor etc was working during the six hours with the engine running - which suggests the Alternator is in good shape)? Is this then just down to poor battery management - ie without shore power it is difficult to rely on solar in the winter and the batteries sulphate. Have you got a battery monitor of any description?

Maybe also an issue with the overheating - but six hours is a lot to run the engine without the cooling effect of the skin tank (assuming it is not raw water cooling) and maybe the alternator belt is still too loose?

[tree monkey]

1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Have you ever considered doing some preventative maintenance, or even daily engine checks ?

 

From what I have seen Rob is very handy with a spanner and quite a competent mechanic and fettler

[Alan de Enfield]

32 minutes ago, tree monkey said:

From what I have seen Rob is very handy with a spanner and quite a competent mechanic and fettler

Many years ago we lived near an excellent builder, unfortunately his skills stopped when he walked thru his front door. His window frames were rotten, the roof leaked and his toilet system had failed and they used a bucket which was emptied daily into the septic tank.

Unfortunately having the skills does not automatically mean you maintain your boat in any sort of reasonable condition.

[Chas78]

Hi Rob,

Sorry to hear of your problems my boat is also fitted with a BMC 1500 and the alternator belt screams like buggery when it is started from cold i have tried several times to stop this but no amount of tightening/tensioning works i would therefore presume this problem is down the to crappy belt which is new but inferior i suspect!! As for your other problems i have no doubt you will sort them yourself after all how long you been working on P6's/Sd1's/Lotus/Lanchesters/etc etc anyway good luck mate ;-) 

[WotEver]

1 hour ago, Chas78 said:

my boat is also fitted with a BMC 1500 and the alternator belt screams like buggery when it is started from cold i have tried several times to stop this but no amount of tightening/tensioning works

How flat are your Batteries? If pretty flat then the screaming is due to the alternator torque being too much for the belt. 

[Chas78]

1 minute ago, WotEver said:

How flat are your Batteries? If pretty flat then the screaming is due to the alternator torque being too much for the belt. 

They seem pretty well charged up the ampmeter does jump up to 14volts when the engine fires up though 

[p6rob]

Thanks for all the replies. I was going to get all self righteous and indignant about a few of them behind then I thought, "what if they are right and I'm not as infallible as I should be".

My boat definitely has an air of neglect about it. I prefer to think off it as a carefully crafted look, that says "this boat isn't abandoned and there's probably nothing worth nicking on it. Let's move on to a different target".

Anyway, the thick layer of ice on the solar panels seems to have prevented untapped volts and amps causing havoc.

The batteries are back in and there's an additional 20 litres of fresh diesel. Too late to try running the engine, so that will have to wait for another day.

Rob

[Sea Dog]

27 minutes ago, p6rob said:

Thanks for all the replies. I was going to get all self righteous and indignant about a few of them behind then I thought, "what if they are right and I'm not as infallible as I should be".

Rob, one of those was definitely me so please forgive me if, as it appears, you're far more able than you came across!  Most folk who write what you wrote are inches from departing up a certain creek without a paddle and I was hoping to help avert disaster rather than be disparaging.

[alan_fincher]

7 hours ago, p6rob said:

.......................but am now concerned the solar system might be damaged as well.

I know boaters get concerned about damaging our planet, but the entire solar system sounds particularly worrying................

(Sorry, I'll get my coat!.......................)

[MtB]

2 hours ago, Chas78 said:

They seem pretty well charged up the ampmeter does jump up to 14volts when the engine fires up though 

 

Dare I suggest that is vanishly unlikely, if not technically impossible?

[Dr Bob]

1 hour ago, Sea Dog said:

Rob, one of those was definitely me so please forgive me if, as it appears, you're far more able than you came across!  Most folk who write what you wrote are inches from departing up a certain creek without a paddle and I was hoping to help avert disaster rather than be disparaging.

....and Rob, please forgive me if I too was one who upset you. In my 50 years of playing with infernal combustion engines, I have never ever run out of fuel so always feel I am 'one up' on anyone who does. (Bikes, cars and boats) ...and I am determined to get at least another 20 years in without running out. Actually, that is all a lie, as my Volvo Penta 2040 (40HP) diesel engine died beating upwind in a 40ft yacht (motor sailing to get a better beat angle - a lumpy water technical term!!) in a F9 up the Messina Straights (between Italy and Sicily) with the boat heeled at 45 degrees. We had to turn and head downwind and I had to bleed all the air out of the fuel system before we could restore power (still in a force 9). The tank was half full but still failed to deliver when it mattered. That taught me a big lesson and I always keep the tank as full as possible.

...but are your batteries knackered?

[cereal tiller]

Just now, Dr Bob said:

....and Rob, please forgive me if I too was one who upset you. In my 50 years of playing with infernal combustion engines, I have never ever run out of fuel so always feel I am 'one up' on anyone who does. (Bikes, cars and boats) ...and I am determined to get at least another 20 years in without running out. Actually, that is all a lie, as my Volvo Penta 2040 (40HP) diesel engine died beating upwind in a 40ft yacht (motor sailing to get a better beat angle - a lumpy water technical term!!) in a F9 up the Messina Straights (between Italy and Sicily) with the boat heeled at 45 degrees. We had to turn and head downwind and I had to bleed all the air out of the fuel system before we could restore power (still in a force 9). The tank was half full but still failed to deliver when it mattered. That taught me a big lesson and I always keep the tank as full as possible.

...but are your batteries knackered?

Smuggist , Duckist ,where do I start?

[Dr Bob]

10 minutes ago, cereal tiller said:

Smuggist , Duckist ,where do I start?

Smug? It's bad enough beating into a F9 without the engine giving up so when it did - I was a bit concerned (rather an understatement - I was s******g myself).  There were no ducks to be seen at all! I bet the real Dr Bob on the videos never ran out of fuel?

[Sea Dog]

10 hours ago, Dr Bob said:

I bet the real Dr Bob... 

Hold on a minute there, Musky!  You're not the real Dr Bob?! 

Do we have am imposter in da house?   

[Dr Bob]

59 minutes ago, Sea Dog said:

Hold on a minute there, Musky!  You're not the real Dr Bob?! 

Do we have am imposter in da house?   

No Deputy Dawg, I'm just holding the fort for him while he's off for a cuppa gone to the dogs.

Edited December 29, 2017 by Dr Bob

[Chas78]

11 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Dare I suggest that is vanishly unlikely, if not technically impossible?

What does that mean 

[MtB]

9 minutes ago, Chas78 said:

What does that mean 

 

You said have an ammeter that measures volts. This would be a technical first, if true!

To measure volts, you need a volt meter. To measure current (in amperes, or amps) you use an ammeter. 

[Alan de Enfield]

11 minutes ago, Chas78 said:

What does that mean 

An Ammeter does not measure volts

A Voltmeter does not measure Amps

An Ammeter measures Amps

A Voltmeter measures Volts

[Dr Bob]

21 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

An Ammeter does not measure volts

An Ammeter measures Amps

 

Ah, but it all depends on what sort of Ammeter. Yes a moving coil Ammeter measures Amps but a digital Ammeter measures volts and then converts the result to Amps as it knows the shunt resistance, so a digital Ammeter measures both voltage across the shunt and Amps flowing through the shunt....but I am sure we all knew this

[Chas78]

Lol ok you got me there AMPS it is then