Project Boat: Interior Hull + Interior Refit

[IsabelleSAllen]

Hi, 

I have just looked at a 36ft Springer (perhaps early 80's) narrowboat for sale, priced at 10,000, as a project boat.

No survey yet - owners have had her for 3 years, in those years they have replated on both front and stern after a survey, and blacked and annoded once (now due for renewal)

The project:

1. Pre-purchase: Survey + It is due blacking, annodes and engine service (potentially the costs of this, and any replating needed, could be deducted from 10,000 boat cost)

2. Interior Hull: Need to create access in the floor to the interior hull as it there is currently no hatch etc.

- Whilst doing the floor, thought would be a good idea to swap (apparently lumps of metal) ballast for engineering blocks, and, do work on the interior steel hull if needed (wire cup brush, rust treat with Vactan, and overcoat with something - bilge paint OR red oxide???)

- Then insulate, plywood boards, and wooden board flooring.

3. Panelling: Taking down wall and ceiling boards which have been B&Q bodged in, to be able to redo with nicer wood, but most importantly, electrics and plumbing.

4. Wiring: There is wiring for 12v and 240v, however 240v is not plugged in at the moment, and the owners are running off solar (owners don't trust the wiring) SO would need completely re-wiring the solar (as it is currently just strung around the boat), utility battery for ceiling lights, 12v sockets and 240v sockets, and waterpump for shower/water.

5. Plumbing: There is also plumbing, but they currently don't use as they removed the old watertank, and currently run off a jerry can of water for the sink, and a cassette toilet. The plumbing also currently runs under the floor, so all old plumbing needs to be ripped out, and replumbed in the wall cavities - would like to plumb in sink, shower and potentially septic tank toilet, and then need to get a new watertank.

6. Other Misc: There is a working gas oven and hob, which seems to be fine and functional, so maybe gas is ok? Also a good, working coal/wood burner. Although engine needs a service, she ran well, when they took us for a 1 hr cruise, i think it is a Lister aircooled engine.

 

So, if the survey all went well, does this sound like too much - In all honesty this would be my first narrowboat, but I am on a budget, hence only being able to afford budget boats. Time is not an issue, although being able to live in it by spring would be great.

Main questions;

- does the tactic to restore the inner hull sound like an ok approach, if it needed doing? What is the realistic expectation for the steel interior hull of a 80's Springer?

- is wiring/plumbing possible to do myself, or is it needed to have a professional for BSC and insurnnce? In which case, how much could i expect for full plumbing/wiring?

- what work could i expect to do myself, and what should i look for quotes for?

Any advice will be HUGELY appreciated in terms of costs expected, or time taken, or regulations to adhere to when doing up a boat.
This boat, technically is liveable, as they have been fine for 3 years, but needing this work, what price for it would be realistic?

Thank you!
 

[rusty69]

Initial thought is it sounds like an expensive project, has it been replated? (not overplated).

 

Most things are doable yourself,assuming you have the time and skill, but will likely take longer and cost more than you thought.

 

Welcome to the forum

[IsabelleSAllen]

1 minute ago, rusty69 said:

Initial thought is it sounds like an expensive project, has it been replated? (not overplated).

 

Most things are doable yourself,assuming you have the time and skill, but will likely take longer and cost more than you thought.

 

Welcome to the forum

Thank you, would you say the project will be more or less than the cost of the actual boat?

technically, bare minimum would be the exterior work (which most boats for sale seem to need anyway), and the plumbing + electrics

 and yes, they said that parts were cut out and replaced, but apparently not much was needed.

And thank you! Glad there is such a great source of communal information!

[ditchcrawler]

I would prefer iron to bricks for ballast, much denser  

 

[IsabelleSAllen]

1 minute ago, ditchcrawler said:

I would prefer iron to bricks for ballast, much denser  

 

Does having metal in the hull not give cause for extra rust? If i bought it, would it be advised take the ballast out to check the metals pieces themselves and hull anyway, whilst the floor was up?

[rusty69]

Just now, IsabelleSAllen said:

Thank you, would you say the project will be more or less than the cost of the actual boat?

technically, bare minimum would be the exterior work (which most boats for sale seem to need anyway), and the plumbing + electrics

 and yes, they said that parts were cut out and replaced, but apparently not much was needed.

And thank you! Glad there is such a great source of communal information!

Well, I suppose it depends what you end up paying for her,and how much of the work you can do yourself. If you are competent to do electrics and plumbing, then the materials shouldn't cost too much.

 

 

[IsabelleSAllen]

1 minute ago, rusty69 said:

Well, I suppose it depends what you end up paying for her,and how much of the work you can do yourself. If you are competent to do electrics and plumbing, then the materials shouldn't cost too much.

 

 

Say i had £12,000 for boat + work, if i negotiated £7000-£8000 for her, is that a reasonable price to offer, and would the £4000-£5000 be enough for making her liveable - without luxury such as toilet/furniture?

[ditchcrawler]

9 minutes ago, IsabelleSAllen said:

Does having metal in the hull not give cause for extra rust? If i bought it, would it be advised take the ballast out to check the metals pieces themselves and hull anyway, whilst the floor was up?

It wont absorb and hold the moisture like a brick, its denser than a brick so more weight can be put in the same space.

[IsabelleSAllen]

2 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

It wont absorb and hold the moisture like a brick, its denser than a brick so more weight can be put in the same space.

Thank you, I'll bear that in mind, definitely sounds logical!

[RLWP]

I would look for a different boat.

This is a bit like 'classic' cars. It's relatively easy to buy one that needs restoring, it takes about a weekend to fully strip down. Then it takes between five and ten years to put back together, or get fed up with it and sell as a project

If you really mean to take up the whole floor of a boat, you'll have to remove most of the interior. You'll then be dissatisfied with what you took out and want to replace with new. Then you might as well redecorate and have a nice new bed and kitchen. Oh, and maybe rewire and fit LED lights, solar panels, an inverter would be nice...

Meanwhile you are struggling for time to work on the boat, paying for a mooring and the license and insurance on a boat you can't use

Spend more on a useable boat and go boating

Richard

[ditchcrawler]

5 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

It wont absorb and hold the moisture like a brick, its denser than a brick so more weight can be put in the same space.

From HERE a class A engineering brick weighs 3.3 Kg the same volume of steel weighs over 12Kg so you would need about 4 times the volume of bricks as you have steel

[IsabelleSAllen]

1 minute ago, RLWP said:

I would look for a different boat.

This is a bit like 'classic' cars. It's relatively easy to buy one that needs restoring, it takes about a weekend to fully strip down. Then it takes between five and ten years to put back together, or get fed up with it and sell as a project

If you really mean to take up the whole floor of a boat, you'll have to remove most of the interior. You'll then be dissatisfied with what you took out and want to replace with new. Then you might as well redecorate and have a nice new bed and kitchen. Oh, and maybe rewire and fit LED lights, solar panels, an inverter would be nice...

Meanwhile you are struggling for time to work on the boat, paying for a mooring and the license and insurance on a boat you can't use

Spend more on a useable boat and go boating

Richard

Thank you, but with a budget of £10,000-£14,000 do you think I will be able to get a Narrowboat, 35ft ish would be nice, and for it not to need work in one way or another? Of course this would be preferable though!

[rusty69]

15 minutes ago, IsabelleSAllen said:

Say i had £12,000 for boat + work, if i negotiated £7000-£8000 for her, is that a reasonable price to offer, and would the £4000-£5000 be enough for making her liveable - without luxury such as toilet/furniture?

It certainly possible.

 

 

1 minute ago, IsabelleSAllen said:

Thank you, but with a budget of £10,000-£14,000 do you think I will be able to get a Narrowboat, 35ft ish would be nice, and for it not to need work in one way or another? Of course this would be preferable though!

 

Heres a random one

https://www.gumtree.com/p/boats-kayaks-jet-skis/36-foot-narrowboat-.-just-been-refitted-so-everything-s-new-/1276094065

 

[RLWP]

7 minutes ago, IsabelleSAllen said:

Thank you, but with a budget of £10,000-£14,000 do you think I will be able to get a Narrowboat, 35ft ish would be nice, and for it not to need work in one way or another? Of course this would be preferable though!

No, I don't. The market for boats like that has been absorbed by folk buying them and going to live in the south east. Boats in that range now are going to need work doing to them no matter what

If you end up having to get hull work done on a Springer it can get quite expensive. The hull shape means you have to have special bostocks to support it. The most effective repair seems top be to make  a new hull vee bottom and partial sides, sail the boat onto that and then weld the whole thing in place. That's a lot of money, probably half your budget

Best value for money in that price range is probably a GRP boat

Richard

6 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

IHeres a random one

https://www.gumtree.com/p/boats-kayaks-jet-skis/36-foot-narrowboat-.-just-been-refitted-so-everything-s-new-/1276094065

 

Quote

Everything s new !! New water pump . New cooker and hob . Nearly new engine . New floorings . New shower pump . New paint job . Basically everything inside the boats new !!

Old hull, dodgy welding on well deck cover, curious modification to front windows...

Nice colour

Richard

Edited November 19, 2017 by RLWP

[dor]

33 minutes ago, IsabelleSAllen said:

Say i had £12,000 for boat + work, if i negotiated £7000-£8000 for her, is that a reasonable price to offer, and would the £4000-£5000 be enough for making her liveable - without luxury such as toilet/furniture?

Most people would consider a toilet to be an essential not a luxury!  Having said that, I've seen some very suspicious pans emerging from a side door and emptying the contents into the cut...

[koukouvagia]

The approach you suggest is perfectly do-able. I’ve refurbished a Springer on a shoestring.

To do the job properly takes a lot of time. It took several years doing the refurbishment of our josher while I was working.  I was able to do the butty much quicker but it still took about three months working on it for about three days a week.

My main piece of advice is to get some really good tools. Secondly read up the many online build blogs. You can see our experience if you follow the links below.

I thoroughly enjoyed fitting out our boats, but there was no time pressure to finish.

[Alan de Enfield]

I sold my fully functioning 30 foot NB, with solid fuel heating, morco hot water boiler, toilet shower, 3 berths, all mooring ropes, pins etc etc and  3 years BS certificate for £10500 It went all the way down to London as a live aboard for a young couple.

 

Do not buy a project as your 1st boat, and certainly don't spend £10,000 on a £4000 Springer.

Edited November 19, 2017 by Alan de Enfield

[dmr]

This is a loss making project in strict financial terms. You will spend a lot of time, effort and money doing up an old boat, and when complete it will still be an old Springer worth not very much.

If you spend those same resources fitting out a brand new shell then you end up, hopefully, with a valuable brand new boat, in fact its likely less effort because there is no de-rusting to be done.

In reality I expect money is tight, you can still do well restoring an old boat, and its a very noble thing to do too. Choose the old boat carefully and don't pay over the odds. Do all or almost all of the work yourself, and most importantly only do this project if you are going to actually enjoy doing it, don't work for peanuts unless its a hobby!. Think it through carefully, have you got the skills, time and determination to see this project through to completion?

Paying professionals to work on project like this is just crazy.

............Dave

[Athy]

1 hour ago, RLWP said:

 

 

 

1 hour ago, RLWP said:

 

Old hull, dodgy welding on well deck cover, curious modification to front windows...

Nice colour

Richard

Yes, somewhere between 1969 and 1983, after which Springer changed the shape of their superstructures. That rounded well deck surround suggests the earlier part of that time range.

I guess it would originally have had front doors, these were removed and the deck covered over to give more storage space, the windows were fitted and then, because this was now the bedroom, painted over for privacy. I do hope that at least one of them opens. IF the hull is sound it could be just what the O.P. is looking for, the boat is quite smartly presented.

It appears to be at Ashby Boat Co. at Stoke Golding - perhaps a bit far for Isabelle to go and have a look to see what one gets for one's money.

Edited November 19, 2017 by Athy

[RLWP]

It looks like the port window hinges up

Richard

[IsabelleSAllen]

Thank you for all of your advice so far, I am not opposed to an interior project as so many boats for sale arn't really laid out or to my taste anyway.
As to the hull etc, how can you know for sure if they are completely sound and won't need overhauling - is a pre-purchase survey really going to flag everything up?

 

Also, thoughts about this one? Still a shlep for me to visit, but looks crazily clean interior wise for £14,000 and 40ft? Could price reflect a structural problem?
https://www.facebook.com/groups/narrowboatsforsaleuk/permalink/964904743661604/?sale_post_id=964904743661604

 

[RLWP]

I'm wondering if that is a steel hull/GRP topped boat. The front edge of the cabin roof looks that way

Richard

[rusty69]

2 minutes ago, IsabelleSAllen said:

As to the hull etc, how can you know for sure if they are completely sound and won't need overhauling - is a pre-purchase survey really going to flag everything up?

You will never know for sure,but a hull survey by a reputable surveyor will get you some of the way there.

[Athy]

3 minutes ago, IsabelleSAllen said:

As to the hull etc, how can you know for sure if they are completely sound and won't need overhauling - is a pre-purchase survey really going to flag everything up?

 

 

A professional hull survey is advisable and should detect any faults - as has often been said on CWDF before, it will cost you hundreds but could save you thousands.

1 minute ago, RLWP said:

I'm wondering if that is a steel hull/GRP topped boat. The front edge of the cabin roof looks that way

Richard

Yes it is. Isabelle, a boat with a wooden or GRP superstructure - many were built that way in the 1970s and perhaps later - generally attracts a lower price than an all-steel boat because, as the top gets older, it becomes prone to leaking, particularly where the top joins the hull, which is most of the way along!

[rusty69]

8 minutes ago, RLWP said:

I'm wondering if that is a steel hull/GRP topped boat. The front edge of the cabin roof looks that way

Richard

Ah, well spotted.Probably overpriced then.