Trojan T105 6v Battery bank advice required !

[meerlaan]

Hello all, 

 

Unfortunately despite my best intentions I am need of some advice regarding my battery bank...

 

I have only just become aware that I need to equalised my batteries  some how this information slipped my mind during all my research and planning for my batteries. I think I thought my controller or multiplus did it automatically as its soo bloody expensive  I have also been relying on my battery monitor telling my my SOC, I now understand this may not be the case. And would appreciate any advice on what I can do now... 

 

My system is:

 

6 x T105 Trojan 6v 225ah batteries that are just over a year old. I rarely run them below 80% and regularly check and top up water.

930w of solar and Outback FastMax controller

Victron Multiplus 12/3000/120 Inverter/ Charger

Victron BMV700 Battery Monitor

Honda eu20i for charging

 

This issue which recently arose... my inverted has started flashing low battery when running my washing machine on a cold wash (which used to be fine) I thought it could be the washing machine malfunctioning as it is an old one but someone said its my batteries and has lead me to learn despite me thinking I am taking good care of them perhaps I am not :/ 

 

 

So, I have bought a hydrometer :

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Pro-Hydrovolt-HYDRO-VOLT-Lead-Acid-Battery-Hydrometer-Electrolyte-Tester/322082591860?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

 

But don't really know what to do with it and would appreciate any advice, I know this is lots written about batteries and I have been reading it  but any advice specific to my situation would be greatly appreciated as I don't want to do any more damage to my expensive and rather lovely batteries. Which I am hoping I haven't done too much damage too.

 

I am going to charge my batteries now using my genny and look at the amps going into the batteries to see when a tail current (1-2% of capacity, 6.75 - 13.5amp for my 675ah battery bank) is reached this should hopefully tell me when it they reached 100% more accurately than my battery monitor.

 

I will then run an equalisation charge, I have looked at how to switch this on with my Victron Mulitplus, I will set equalisation to 8.10v (indicated on the trojan website)

 

I am then planing on setting my float charge (on my multiplus settings) to the same as my absorption charge 7.05 - 7.35 as this will bring my batts to 100% state of charge quicker when I am charging as I only charge using a generator I will not leave it running on float for very long.

 

If I have made any errors please let me know, thanks again for any advice.

 

Martin

[Robbo]

You need to double your voltage settings for the Victron settings that you stated as you are reading the Trojan 6v figures where you are 12v.

Edited November 19, 2017 by Robbo

[rusty69]

It sounds like you have been getting away with it due to your large solar array. Now the solar season is over and you have discovered the limitations of your BMV state of charge reading, your batteries may be suffering.

Hopefully not too much damage has occurred, and a good charge and equalisation will suffice.

I would also check your connections on the inverter,and the terminal voltage if you are able.

One of the experts will be along soon to advise on use of the hydrometer.

 

[Tony Brooks]

28 minutes ago, Robbo said:

You need to double your voltage settings for the Victron settings that you stated as you are reading the Trojan 6v figures where you are 12v.

THIS ^^^^^^

Unless yours is a 6V system which is exceptionally unlikely. If its a 24 volt system then four times the single Trojan battery voltage.

The hydrometer.

I think that when you suck sufficient acid into the devise the round "scale" will rotate. I think the reading is taken from the line moulded into the red plastic that is at about 7 o'clock by the 1.110 reading. You will need to keep the suck up tuber vertical otherwise I suspect it will alter the reading. That is supposition based omn experience because I have not instructions.

Take and not readings from each of the three cells in a battery.

If any cell produces cloudy or coloured acid the cell and thus the battery is faulty or very soon will be.

All cells should read within 0.03 of each other if there is this difference or more then the low cell is probably faulty but give them a good charge, allow to cool and retest.

The next step really requires you to compensate for temperature but within typical UK off charge temperatures it should be near enough to just take a reading.  1.300 =  about fully charged *

Around 1.200 ish = about half charged *

1.100 = fully discharged*

* However the degree of sulphation will alter these readings. The more sulphation the lower the reading will be for any given state of charge.

To asses the degree of sulphation take a rested voltage reading and compare the state of charge that indicates to what the hydrometer says. The greater the difference the more sulphation.

NOTE - do not flick acid about, keep it off your clothes etc. If you get any on your cloths then even if you flood the area with water it is still likely to burn holes in the fabric. If you need to mop any acid up be aware that when on rag or paper it can spontaneously ignite when it dries so when done rinse the rag/paper in lost of water and dispose of while still very wet. If you get it on the skin it may well sting and go red, I have not known it to actually burn through skin but it certainly  hurts when on places like the inner wrists etc. Wash off with lost of water if you do get any on skin. If in an eye its bad news so wash out and seek urgent medical attention.

 

[mross]

1 hour ago, meerlaan said:

So, I have bought a hydrometer :

A good choice as it is temperature compensated.  To get the best reading fill and empty a few times so that the instrument reaches the same temp as the battery acid.

[dmr]

A note on that hydrometer...

They are lovely to use but not that accurate or repeatable. I did a back to back with two of these units and an optical device.  I think I remember that mine read about 1.285 when the other, and the optical, said about 1.275. There was also a repeatability issue but this can be reduced with careful use. The unit works best if kept upright, and the compensating disc tends to have a fair bit of stiction. They are quick and easy use so its worth taking two or three readings from each cell at first till you have got the technique for repeatable results.

...............Dave

 

[meerlaan]

Thanks for your response! 

Sorry, I AM CONFUSED, what with the batteries being 6v I forget that everything is 12v. I didn't set this system up so I imagine it's done properly  I believe my numbers should read 14.10 - 14.7 and 16.20v for equalisation. 

@rusty69  Could you clarify..... "I would also check your connections on the inverter,and the terminal voltage if you are able." 

@Tony Brooks thanks for your detailed response! you said "allow to cool and retest." could you give me an idea how long to wait. Thanks

Edited November 19, 2017 by meerlaan
couldnt edit original post to change 6v numbers

[rusty69]

4 minutes ago, meerlaan said:

Thanks for your response! 

Sorry, I AM CONFUSED, what with the batteries being 6v I forget that everything is 12v. I didn't set this system up so I imagine it's done properly  I have edited the numbers hopefully they make sense now.

@rusty69  Could you clarify..... "I would also check your connections on the inverter,and the terminal voltage if you are able." 

@Tony Brooks thanks for your detailed response! you said "allow to cool and retest." could you give me an idea how long to wait. Thanks

Its possible that your battery voltage is ok (what does the BMV read when washing machine is on?), but the voltage at the input to the inverter due to poor or loose connections is causing the low voltage alarm to sound.

Edited November 19, 2017 by rusty69

[meerlaan]

Thanks @rusty69 I see what you mean. Well there is something I find odd, when I check the BMV with the washing machine on it reads -2.4Kw which seems alot for a cold wash. The light even seems to flash when I have the genny connected and running, which seems very odd.

How would you suggest checking the connections ? Beyond just visually is there anything I am looking for or can test ? 

[Tony Brooks]

6 minutes ago, meerlaan said:

Thanks for your response! 

Sorry, I AM CONFUSED, what with the batteries being 6v I forget that everything is 12v. I didn't set this system up so I imagine it's done properly  I believe my numbers should read 14.10 - 14.7 and 16.20v for equalisation. 

@rusty69  Could you clarify..... "I would also check your connections on the inverter,and the terminal voltage if you are able." 

@Tony Brooks thanks for your detailed response! you said "allow to cool and retest." could you give me an idea how long to wait. Thanks

As Mross pointed out the seller claims its temperature compensated so in theory you should be bale to use it hot. However I would wait until the battery feels tepid.

[rusty69]

1 minute ago, meerlaan said:

Thanks @rusty69 I see what you mean. Well there is something I find odd, when I check the BMV with the washing machine on it reads -2.4Kw which seems alot for a cold wash. The light even seems to flash when I have the genny connected and running, which seems very odd.

How would you suggest checking the connections ? Beyond just visually is there anything I am looking for or can test ? 

I would measure the voltage on the terminals with a DVM and compare them to the voltage reading on the BMV

[smileypete]

As well as Tony's great guide, there's also one in The Battery FAQ:

http://jgdarden.com/batteryfaq/carfaq4.htm#hydrometer

The best of the cheaper ones are the turky baster style ones in my opinion, best get one from a recognised brand:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Draper-5010559617920-61792-Battery-Hydrometer/dp/B0001K9XSO

[mross]

When the washer is running, see if there is any voltage between the battery post and the clamp itself that attaches the cable to the battery.  You can check on each battery post.  The voltage should be 0.000v

[meerlaan]

You mean when the measure when the washing machine is on? I got scared and turned it off, could I perhaps test it with something else with a lower power usage?

Can you confirm which terminals I should be checking (sorry for the stupid question)

 

Hi @mross  "see if there is any voltage between the battery post and the clamp itself that attaches the cable to the battery." 

Could you clarify how I do this, I have a uni-t digital clamp meter but still getting used to it.

Thanks

[mross]

For a voltage test, you don't need the clamp part.  You need the two leads.  Turn the dial to 'V' and put the two leads in the matching holes on the meter  Put one pointy end on a battery post and the other on the clamp that is attached to the battery post.  Take a reading for each battery post.  What is the model number of your meter?

Edited November 19, 2017 by mross

[ditchcrawler]

1 minute ago, mross said:

For a voltage test, you don't need the clamp part.  You need the two leads.  Turn the dial to 'V' and put the two leads in the holes.  Put one pointy end on a battery post and the other on the clamp that is attached to the battery post.  Take a reading for each battery post.  What is the model number of your meter?

If you have T105 then they probably have a bolt connection, not a clamp, so set the multi meter to read DC volts and as above put one lead to the battery post or the head of the thread and the other one to the crimp on the cable, it should read zero volts, do this on each battery post in turn 

[meerlaan]

I have a uni-t UT203 and yes bolts

 

 

Can I do this reading any time or will it only tell me something when washing machine is on ?

 

[mross]

It needs to be done with the biggest load you feel comfortable with.  How about running it on rinse or spin?  Then the heater won't run.

 

Edited November 19, 2017 by mross

[meerlaan]

Great thanks @mross I will check this with something with a high load tomorrow, I have a 240v dehumidifier  

[mross]

If you can, try and measure the volts between the battery and the inverter.  This will likely show one or two volts.  If you can post any photos of your inverter and its cable run to the battery, that would be ace.

[nicknorman]

5 hours ago, meerlaan said:

Thanks @rusty69 I see what you mean. Well there is something I find odd, when I check the BMV with the washing machine on it reads -2.4Kw which seems alot for a cold wash. The light even seems to flash when I have the genny connected and running, which seems very odd.

How would you suggest checking the connections ? Beyond just visually is there anything I am looking for or can test ? 

If it’s showing 2.4kw then the washing machine heater is on. Although you have set to cold wash, perhaps the incoming water is so cold that the machine thinks it best to warm it a bit. Try the wash again but pour some hot water in via the soap drawer whilst it’s filling.

[Phil.]

8 hours ago, meerlaan said:

Hello all, 

 

Unfortunately despite my best intentions I am need of some advice regarding my battery bank...

 

I have only just become aware that I need to equalised my batteries  some how this information slipped my mind during all my research and planning for my batteries. I think I thought my controller or multiplus did it automatically as its soo bloody expensive  I have also been relying on my battery monitor telling my my SOC, I now understand this may not be the case. And would appreciate any advice on what I can do now... 

 

My system is:

 

6 x T105 Trojan 6v 225ah batteries that are just over a year old. I rarely run them below 80% and regularly check and top up water.

930w of solar and Outback FastMax controller

Victron Multiplus 12/3000/120 Inverter/ Charger

Victron BMV700 Battery Monitor

Honda eu20i for charging

 

This issue which recently arose... my inverted has started flashing low battery when running my washing machine on a cold wash (which used to be fine) I thought it could be the washing machine malfunctioning as it is an old one but someone said its my batteries and has lead me to learn despite me thinking I am taking good care of them perhaps I am not :/ 

 

 

So, I have bought a hydrometer :

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Pro-Hydrovolt-HYDRO-VOLT-Lead-Acid-Battery-Hydrometer-Electrolyte-Tester/322082591860?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

 

But don't really know what to do with it and would appreciate any advice, I know this is lots written about batteries and I have been reading it  but any advice specific to my situation would be greatly appreciated as I don't want to do any more damage to my expensive and rather lovely batteries. Which I am hoping I haven't done too much damage too.

 

I am going to charge my batteries now using my genny and look at the amps going into the batteries to see when a tail current (1-2% of capacity, 6.75 - 13.5amp for my 675ah battery bank) is reached this should hopefully tell me when it they reached 100% more accurately than my battery monitor.

 

I will then run an equalisation charge, I have looked at how to switch this on with my Victron Mulitplus, I will set equalisation to 8.10v (indicated on the trojan website)

 

I am then planing on setting my float charge (on my multiplus settings) to the same as my absorption charge 7.05 - 7.35 as this will bring my batts to 100% state of charge quicker when I am charging as I only charge using a generator I will not leave it running on float for very long.

 

If I have made any errors please let me know, thanks again for any advice.

 

Martin

I too have an outback controller and you can easily use this to equalise. Just wait for a blue sky sunny day.

[MtB]

On 19/11/2017 at 21:48, Phil. said:

I too have an outback controller and you can easily use this to equalise. Just wait for a blue sky sunny day.

 

That's a very generous offer. Can I use it too please?

[meerlaan]

Hi @mross  Could you clarify how I can "measure the volts between the battery and the inverter." I will be checking the battery bolt and crimp in a moment.

I have added some photos of my setup annoyingly after a year I have finally boxed in my inverter so its a little tricker to get to the cables at the bottom :/ 

@nicknorman that would make a lot of sense!! it has only started happening the past 5 or 6 weeks since the temps have been getting colder, I guess the heating element requires more power as the water is colder, thanks so much for your idea I will try your hot water trick.

Hi @Phil.  does it do it automatically?? think I need to check my setup as in the summer months I certainly had enough solar. 

Edited November 20, 2017 by meerlaan
size of photos were massive!

[meerlaan]

I am just charging my batteries to see if I can determine my tail current, (my hydrometer hasn't arrive yet) they were reading 90% on BMV for what its worth...

Not sure at what point but the Victron has switched to absorption and I took some photos of my monitor,

I am guessing I am waiting for the 83.7amps to read between 6.75 - 13.5amp which I imagine is going to take a long time...

Edited November 20, 2017 by meerlaan
forgot to add photos