Another boat death - Carbon Monoxide Multi Fuel Stove

[bigste]

This one was due to the door being left open whilst the occupant slept.

 

Story courtesy of Lancashire Telegraph.

 

A MAN was poisoned by fatal carbon monoxide fumes from the stove that heated his narrowboat, an inquest heard.

And the family of Mark Allott, 36, said his death should lead to the compulsory fitting of carbon monoxide detection alarms to all boats and caravans.

Mr Allott, 36, a former Gawthorpe High School pupil, was found dead on his boat, Galeforce, on December 17 last year.

His vessel had been moored on the Leeds and Liverpool Canal at Salterforth Wharf, near Barnoldswick for three months.

Mark, a former Gawthorpe High School pupil and his best friend Tony Read, had bought and renovated the boat to live in.

Mr Read told an inquest in Burnley that he had not seen Mr Allott, who was better known as ‘Mallet’ to his friends, for the previous two days as he had been staying at a girlfriend’s home.

The pair had planned to go to a Christmas party in Burnley that night, but when Mr Read boarded the boat he found his friend dead.

He told the hearing that the stove was the only source of heating on the narrowboat and that on some occasions it had been used previously it had left him ‘feeling dizzy’, which at the time he put down to the heat.

Heating engineer Thomas Holdsworth was asked to test the solid fuel stove for emissions.

He said: “We tested the stove with an extremely sensitive gas analyser.

“When burning plain timber it had low emissions, but when treated wood, such as the chipboard Mr Allott used was burned then the levels went up.

“This got even higher when we tested with the front door of the appliance open, which was how it was found.”

Mr Holdsworth added that the main seals of the stove were missing, which would allow gases produced in the combustion to leak.

A pathologist’s report found carbon monoxide levels in Mr Allot’s blood were at 75 per cent.

Any reading above 50 per cent is likely to prove fatal.

As the lethal gas is colourless and odourless it was likely that he had fallen rapidly unconscious as levels built up inside the boat.

The cause of death was given as carbon monoxide poisoning.

Mr Allott’s mother Gillian, 66, of Holme Crescent, Trawden, described Mark, who worked at Furnico in Colne, as ‘a very popular, boisterous, bubbly, loud and lively lad, who is desperately missed by many’.

She said: “I would strongly urge everyone who has equipment like this to have it regularly serviced to check that everything’s in order.

“I believe it should be mandatory to have carbon monoxide alarms, which bleep like smoke detectors, fitted to boats and caravans.

“It’s such a simple thing to do and it would save lives.”

Recording a verdict of accidental death, Burnley coroner Richard Taylor said Mr Allott would have had no idea of what the effects would be when he used the stove.

He described the incident as ‘purely an accident’.

[QCat]

Very very sad. I have a Carbon Monoxide alarm, but thinking of getting a 2nd as a backup. One at chair end and one at bed end.

 

Heart goes out to his family and friends.

[Alan de Enfield]

You would have thought that any organisation interested in boat-safety would demand that these be fitted - it may actually impact safety a bit more than mandatory labelling of the 'pump-out'.

[Machpoint005]

This jars rather against some of the more cavalier posts in the 'garden decking' thread.

I'm not sure that making CO detectors a legal requirement is the whole answer, though.

 

ETA: we do have CO detectors/alarms on board.

Edited September 19, 2016 by Machpoint005

[PaddingtonBear]

No amount of detectors will overcome the stupidity of burning chipboard!!!!!! on a stove in poor condition (no door seals). Sorry if this appears a little harsh.

[Machpoint005]

No amount of detectors will overcome the stupidity of burning chipboard!!!!!! on a stove in poor condition (no door seals). Sorry if this appears a little harsh.

 

Not at all Padds, that is exactly what I was getting at.

[b0atman]

burn the wrong stuff in a faulty fire or with door left open and the CO detector will alarm so why are they not compulsory and yet none life threatening items are on BSS ?

[Lady Muck]

No amount of detectors will overcome the stupidity of burning chipboard!!!!!! on a stove in poor condition (no door seals). Sorry if this appears a little harsh.

i think relying on detectors can be dodgy, my friend had two onboard, both in warranty and they failed to detect that her burner was leaking CO (large crack in it). I wonder if thats why they are not compulsary, I often call out noobs on dodgy practises with gas or the burner and the answer is often, 'it doesn't matter I have an alarm.'

Edited September 19, 2016 by Lady Muck

[Machpoint005]

burn the wrong stuff in a faulty fire or with door left open and the CO detector will alarm so why are they not compulsory and yet none life threatening items are on BSS ?

 

Even if they were compulsory, would it be compulsory to leave the batteries in, or replace the batteries when they were flat, and would it make any practical difference?

i think relying on detectors can be dodgy, my friend had two onboard, both in warranty and they failed to detect that her burner was leaking CO (large crack in it).

 

exactly

[QCat]

Stupidity is relative though, there's plenty of us on here who know the risks, but if not educated to the contrary in some way it's not necessarily intuitive to someone new to boats or caravans that a multi fuel stove in an enclosed space with the door open is bloody different to a front room with the cliche of a roaring open fire.

 

How to educate on something like this?

[PaddingtonBear]

And you always have the Darwin factor.

[dogless]

Very harsh. However with an alarm on board, sleep would have been very difficult for the poor man.

 

I agree that it seems bizzare the the BSS will have examiners scrabbling about checking for kite marks on engine hoses, but with no requirement STILL for alarms.

 

But I have said this elsewhere, sorry for repeating myself.

 

Rog

[PaddingtonBear]

Stupidity is relative though, there's plenty of us on here who know the risks, but if not educated to the contrary in some way it's not necessarily intuitive to someone new to boats or caravans that a multi fuel stove in an enclosed space with the door open is bloody different to a front room with the cliche of a roaring open fire.

How to educate on something like this?

There was apparently a history of the both the boaters getting headaches when using the stove, perhaps that might have been a clue?

And it appears that the boat had just been 'renovated'

[QCat]

Absolutely it should, I totally believe it was a needless death. But he obviously didn't know that there is such a thing as CO poisoning and that stoves are risky, let alone what the symptoms are.

 

Remember the old (nicely patronising) TV government ads? Maybe we need a social media version for stuff like this.

Edited September 19, 2016 by QCat

[QCat]

 

And I also agree that just forcing alarms isn't a solution... It's a safety backup for something going wrong.

[MtB]

No amount of detectors will overcome the stupidity of burning chipboard!!!!!! on a stove in poor condition (no door seals). Sorry if this appears a little harsh.

 

 

I have to agree. Keeping the door shut as per the instructions would also have gone a long way to saving his life.

 

Who was it first wrote this engineering maxim? You can't make your product idiot-proof - if you try, the universe will defeat you by building a better idiot.

The BSS attempts to make things idiot-proof. It will never succeed in stopping people doing stupid things.

[b0atman]

The BSS needs to concentrate on items that put life at risk and stop padding it out with none risk items then produce a simple booklet explaining what checks are for and dangers this booklet to be shown on tests and replaced by tester if updated .Yes I know some will not read it but it could have been read by one of these and the danger learnt.

[Stormbringer]

The BSS needs to concentrate on items that put life at risk and stop padding it out with none risk items then produce a simple booklet explaining what checks are for and dangers this booklet to be shown on tests and replaced by tester if updated .Yes I know some will not read it but it could have been read by one of these and the danger learnt.

That would be a good start!

I suppose people who grew up without coal fires in their houses may not be as aware of the need for ventilation and the dangers of SF fires generally as those old gits like me who did ....

[Murflynn]

us old farts all grew up with coal fires in the living room and no particular ventilation.

 

If it felt a bit stuffy we would open a door or a window just a crack.

 

No recollection of anyone dying from fumes in those days but maybe the Meedya wasn't quite so active and interested in those days.

[Chertsey]

As I understand it, the BSS is less to do with protecting people from their own ignorance/stupidity, and more to do with protecting others from the consequences thereof. Hence it is more concerned with the risk of fire, explosion, pollution etc than CO.

[Nightwatch]

Very sad.

 

I occasionally sit and assess our boat for safety. Look at the fire,check vents and all that. We have both types of alarm onboard and test those frequently.

 

I expect, if you're really cold, you make decisions that are deprimental to your health, and safety.

 

Martyn

[MtB]

As I understand it, the BSS is less to do with protecting people from their own ignorance/stupidity, and more to do with protecting others from the consequences thereof. Hence it is more concerned with the risk of fire, explosion, pollution etc than CO.

 

 

Frankly I disagree. The BSS seems just as concerned with trivia like labels on pipes as protecting other boaters and the public.

 

And if they are not concerned with the welfare of the boat occupants as suggested by their failure to make CO detectors mandatory, why are fire extinguishers inside the boat mandatory?

[Paul C]

us old farts all grew up with coal fires in the living room and no particular ventilation.

 

If it felt a bit stuffy we would open a door or a window just a crack.

 

No recollection of anyone dying from fumes in those days but maybe the Meedya wasn't quite so active and interested in those days.

 

open fire --> excess oxygen

 

solid fuel stove --> designed to be used with controlled inwards air supply, ie resticts oxygen to control heat output

 

Operate a solid fuel stove for any length of time with the door open and you're operating it somewhere between the above two scenarios, and with airflows within it which are not predicted in its design, and with an opening which may act as the flue which is unpredictable too.

[Chertsey]

Frankly I disagree. The BSS seems just as concerned with trivia like labels on pipes as protecting other boaters and the public.

 

And if they are not concerned with the welfare of the boat occupants as suggested by their failure to make CO detectors mandatory, why are fire extinguishers inside the boat mandatory?

Because fire can spread to other boats?

[Horace42]

With a proper flue and proper ventilation there should be no problem on a narrowboat.- even with the stove doors open - fumes go straight up the chimney.

But it doesn't need much deviation from a 'safe' system to trigger off a risk situation - that if undetected can lead to death - as has happened here. Leaking flue joints, long logs sticking out through the doors, poor boat ventilation

But blaming these accidents on people doing foolish things is a bit unfair - they just don't know.

What is daft, or idiotic, or foolish about sitting round the stove with the door open on a cold Winter's evening.

What is needed is some proper warning of the risks and how they occur - and how to recognise the signs of something going wrong.

Saying dangerous levels of carbon monoxide CO cannot be detected by human senses is quite true, but the source producing CO is likely to give off plenty of other combustion products more then easily detectable. Smoke for one. You can see it, smell it, taste it, feel it (heat, and in your eyes) and hear it (roaring and crackling) all quite easily long before CO builds up to dangerous levels.

That is when something needs to be done about preventing CO build up. If not cured (due to ignorance) then CO poisoning can set in.

In which case CO detectors would help because they will tell you straight away something is wrong.

Education is just as important - especially for me if the experts think I am I am wrong in assuming there is little risk of CO poisoning with a properly designed, functioning and maintained (and BSS tested) stove system on a narrowboat.