Canaline ignition and starter motor

[pedroinlondon]

Hi. I lost my ignition key. This morning i try to "hit wire" the engine. It worked for a bit then i burnt the starter engine. Dies anyone know where i can order suitable replacements from? The ignition key hole is abiut 26mm in diameter. Thanks in advance for any links and tips

Sorry for the typos. Crap new phone

[bizzard]

Hi. I lost my ignition key. This morning i try to "hit wire" the engine. It worked for a bit then i burnt the starter engine. Dies anyone know where i can order suitable replacements from? The ignition key hole is abiut 26mm in diameter. Thanks in advance for any links and tips

Sorry for the typos. Crap new phone

If you are in London try, Wade Diesel, Pinder rd, Hoddesdon, Herts. 01192 444020. Close to the river Lea at Hoddesdon.

[Chewbacka]

Vehicle wiring products are not the lowest cost around, but all the stuff I have bought from has been good.

 

http://www.vehicle-wiring-products.eu/product.php/205/diesel-start-switch-4-position

[Paul C]

What's a "starter engine"?

[Chewbacka]

What's a "starter engine"?

I assumed he meant he burnt out the starter motor.

[Alan de Enfield]

What's a "starter engine"?

 

I'm guessing at starter motor.

Possibly connected it to start and left it connected

[Tony Brooks]

I am wondering if he wants a new switch, a new starter motor or both. If a new starter motor the why, how can you "burn" it by hot wiring it. Even if you kept engaged with the engine running the sprag clutch on the pinion should have dealt with it for a while.

 

More info required unless the OP wants to potentially waste money.

[Paul C]

The OP says "starter engine" but the photo shows a missing ignition switch, I can't believe that one is a typo for the other; or even a misidentification of the name of components. I too would see it unlikely the starter motor became damaged but its possible that a misdiagnosis is made. Rather than guessing on words then offering anything, for now I would just appreciate clarification on what components are actually damaged/need replacement.

[Chewbacka]

Actually he may just need a new key rather than a switch and key if his boat is anything like mine.

My key is far from unique.

[Paul C]

Coming from the basis that canal boat diesel engines have very basic electrics, if you know what you're doing then they could be hot-wired ie started without the key with absolutely no damage. But if damage did occur, then there's a bunch of things it could be eg short circuits, burnt wires, maybe burnt out glowplug relay if its underspecified. I am struggling to believe anyone would damage a starter motor by having it remain engaged for long enough to do damage, given the awful sound it would make in doing so.

 

So its a bit open-ended at this stage. In any case, bizzard (post #2) has made a reasonable suggestion, and I'd say its best looked at by a boatyard etc rather than try to learn about electrics then fix the damage DIY here.

[pedroinlondon]

Sorry guys. Been on the phone by the motor bay. Yes, starter motor not engine. May not be knackered just solenoid gone. The problem was caused by my stupid hot wirinh. Starter motor stayed on so it kapputed. Not sure about the extent of the damage until it gets looked at. In the meantime I'll get the ign replacement.

[bizzard]

As well as being excellent diesel equipment engineers, they also sell ancilliaries like starter switches, stop solenoids, glow plugs and all the rest of it. Wade Diesel , that is.

Edited September 4, 2016 by bizzard

[Tony Brooks]

And if they do not overhaul such things a starters can probably tell you a local man who can.

Edited September 4, 2016 by Tony Brooks

[pedroinlondon]

Thanks Tony. I will call a recommended engineer in the morning.

[Sir Nibble]

If the starter has run in mesh to the point where it no longer works it is almost certain that the armature has burst centrifugally which would have taken out the brush gear and probably stripped they insulation from the fields. I wouldn't trust the drive clutch after that either. Write off most likely.

[Chewbacka]

I used to work within the car industry and a few years ago examined some starter motors that had been driven whilst 'stuck in start' - petrol engine cars.

 

Basically the starter motor becomes a dynamo and generates lots of power and the main copper windings usually burn out before the bearings fail.

At this point the starter now loads up the electrical system and pulls the voltage down such that the engine either dies because the engine ECU shuts down or the driver stops the car (a bit of shopping etc) and when they return the car for obvious reasons can not start.

 

Surprisingly many drivers do not notice the noise coming from the starter motor as it dies.

[pedroinlondon]

I just called Canaline and they told me the starter motor for my Canaline 52 costs £552! Is this acceptable? If so is there a cheaper alternative?

[pearley]

From previous posts it seems Canaline are based on Kioti engines so may be dirty talking to the nearest dealer.

http://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=46252

http://www.kioti-uk.com/dealers

You probably have to take the old starter in an ask them if they recognise it.

Edited September 5, 2016 by pearley

[Chewbacka]

You need to find the manufacturer and part number for the starter motor.

Is the base engine you have Isuzu? if so a call to an Isuzu distributor may give you an alternative.

Somewhere on the engine there will probably be a plate for the base engine which should identify the maker.

Canaline take a base engine and then change some bits to make it compliant to the waterways regs.

 

 

Added

Just did a quick Google and it seems Canaline use a Kioti core engine which is built in South Korea

There is an ebay supplier that does Kioti starters, they may be able to help.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SL1325-KIOTI-DAEDONG-KUBOTA-L5740-V1902B-Starter-Motor-/371567475188?hash=item568325b9f4:g:xNcAAOSwPc9Wu0QM

Edited September 5, 2016 by Chewbacka

[Lampyrichard]

So according to this Canaline handbook, the base engine is indeed a Kioti & the starter motor is a Kioti E5500-63016

 

Maybe Kioti London can help you source that part no?

 

There seem to be a few after market ones available on eBay.com from the States, around $150, but not sure what the shipping would be!

[Tony Brooks]

That is why I said that the people Biz pointed you to may be able to tell you who can overhaul yours. In fact many diesel specialist also overhaul starters and alternators. Very often foreign makers license designs for US/UK/EU countries so someone who is up on these things can rebuild with more readily available and potentially cheaper spares that are all but identical to the originals.

[pedroinlondon]

These guys sell it too. I'll order on first thing tomorrow http://m.ebay.co.uk/itm/SL1325-KIOTI-DAEDONG-KUBOTA-L5740-V1902B-Starter-Motor-/371567475188?hash=item568325b9f4%3Ag%3AxNcAAOSwPc9Wu0QM&_trkparms=pageci%253A04ff11f7-737d-11e6-b861-005056bb6365%257Cparentrq%253Afaf491b61560a6a5ca28c3d4fff68912%257Ciid%253A1

[Lampyrichard]

These guys sell it too. I'll order on first thing tomorrow http://m.ebay.co.uk/itm/SL1325-KIOTI-DAEDONG-KUBOTA-L5740-V1902B-Starter-Motor-/371567475188?hash=item568325b9f4%3Ag%3AxNcAAOSwPc9Wu0QM&_trkparms=pageci%253A04ff11f7-737d-11e6-b861-005056bb6365%257Cparentrq%253Afaf491b61560a6a5ca28c3d4fff68912%257Ciid%253A1

 

Be aware that the one you've linked to doesn't specify a cross match to yours, though I've noticed the US sites seem to show the -63015 & -63016 as interchangeable.

 

You might have to graft the nose of the fried one onto a -63015 I suspect.

[pedroinlondon]

"You might have to graft the nose of the fried one onto a -63015 I suspect."

What does that mean Richard??

[WotEver]

He means you might have to put the front bit (nose) of the old one onto the new one.

 

Tony

Edited September 5, 2016 by WotEver