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#1 jacksonp_uk

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 10:08 AM

Hi

Can anyone give me any owners feed back on Canaline 38 engines? I am considering buying one to replace my BMC 1.5. It would just be interesting to know of someones real world experiences.

cheers

Paul Jackson
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#2 RobinJ

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 10:20 AM

Can anyone give me any owners feed back on Canaline 38 engines? I am considering buying one to replace my BMC 1.5. It would just be interesting to know of someones real world experiences.

Don't think they have been around particualrly long enough for major feedback, but most of these type of engines are based on the Mitsubishi blocks and parts etc. should be easily available. The Canaline engines are I think all 4 cylinder, so none of the problems associated with the 3 cylinder ones!
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#3 alan_fincher

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 10:43 AM

Don't think they have been around particualrly long enough for major feedback, but most of these type of engines are based on the Mitsubishi blocks and parts etc. should be easily available. The Canaline engines are I think all 4 cylinder, so none of the problems associated with the 3 cylinder ones!

I don't think the size of Canaline engine you would be likely to put in a narrow boat are Mitsubushi based, are they ?

Just looked up their publicity, and that seems to agree....

The core engine of the Canaline 25, 30, 38, 42 and 52 is based
upon the Korean built, Kioti Diesel Engine. Established in
1947, Kioti has become a market leader in the manufacture
of diesel engines and agricultural machinery in Korea and has
received global acceptance of the products manufactured.


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#4 RobinJ

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 10:53 AM

I don't think the size of Canaline engine you would be likely to put in a narrow boat are Mitsubushi based, are they ?

Just looked up their publicity, and that seems to agree....

Stand corrected!
I thought although they themselves had been around a while these engines were based on the Kubota type ones!
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#5 Albion

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 11:07 AM

The engine range is done by Engines Plus which was formed when Isuzu stopped the marine range run under the HMI Isuzu banner by the guys who have now set up Engines Plus. Engines Plus is run by three ex-colleagues of mine from my days at Lister-Petter (Bob Cantwell, Hedley Beavis and Martyn Harris). Knowing Bob Cantwell I would be amazed if he would put his name to anything that wasn't a sound product (although I know nothing of the Kioti smaller engines myself). Mitsubishi is just the largest engine in the range. I suggest that you speak to Bob Cantwell, or any of the others, as he is very technically competent in the industrial diesel field.
Roger

Edited by Albion, 18 April 2012 - 11:09 AM.

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#6 Ally

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 12:08 PM

We have 3 boats out there with the Canal line 42 in them, one of which was also reviewed in Canalboat mag dec 2010 (Fruit of the Vine if you can find the article) which included an engine review. Can't say we've experienced any issues with them at all......(*touches a nice big lump of oak*) and are fitting a fourth one in our current build.

Edited by Ally, 18 April 2012 - 12:08 PM.

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#7 Laurie.Booth

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 01:40 PM

Don't think they have been around particualrly long enough for major feedback, but most of these type of engines are based on the Mitsubishi blocks and parts etc. should be easily available. The Canaline engines are I think all 4 cylinder, so none of the problems associated with the 3 cylinder ones!

Can you tell me what the problems are that are associated with 3 cylinder ones?
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#8 RobinJ

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 01:45 PM

Can you tell me what the problems are that are associated with 3 cylinder ones?

I understand, because of the larger separation angle of 3 cylinder engines, they tend to vibrate more without a larger flywheel, might have problems with engine mountings, pipework etc. I myself never had one!
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#9 Albion

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 01:53 PM

Can you tell me what the problems are that are associated with 3 cylinder ones?


The three cylinder engines (and not just the Canaline ones) suffer, as has been said from greater vibration. When I worked at Lister the marine LWP3 (IIRC) had to have extra bracing installed between the engine mounts to withstand the additional vibration. It's par for the course I believe.
Roger

Edited by Albion, 18 April 2012 - 01:55 PM.

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#10 Laurie.Booth

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 01:56 PM

I understand, because of the larger separation angle of 3 cylinder engines, they tend to vibrate more without a larger flywheel, might have problems with engine mountings, pipework etc. I myself never had one!

I only ask as I have one. I cured the "vibration" by speeding up the tick over. A very simple job with a spanner and screwdriver.
Thanks for your reply though, as I was worried as to what else might go wrong with it.
:)
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#11 Tony Brooks

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 02:21 PM

The three cylinder engines (and not just the Canaline ones) suffer, as has been said from greater vibration. When I worked at Lister the marine LWP3 (IIRC) had to have extra bracing installed between the engine mounts to withstand the additional vibration. It's par for the course I believe.
Roger



Not quite.

The Bukh 3 cylinder has harmonic balancers that counteract the vibration tendency. However they are a bit outside the price range for most canal owners.
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#12 Keith Yeandel

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 02:40 PM

As the owner of nb "Fruit of The Vine", reviewed in Canalboat mag dec 2010, the Canaline 42 has proved to be a nost reliable engine. It has slightly more torque than the HMI Isuzu equivalent and otherwise perfoms in a similar way. From the DIY standpoint it is very easy to change the oil and filter. I had an initial problem, that turned out not to be an engine fault, and Bob Cantwell visited the boat with no hesitation and so can certainly vouch for their after sales service. Hope this helps.
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#13 Albion

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 02:54 PM

Not quite.

The Bukh 3 cylinder has harmonic balancers that counteract the vibration tendency. However they are a bit outside the price range for most canal owners.

Good point Tony, but not a common solution on an industrial base engine I would think.
Roger
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#14 WotEver

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 03:46 PM

An engineer, looking at my 3.10 said words to the effect of "Many people don't realise that a 3 cylinder is naturally more balanced than a 4 cylinder with a firing stoke every 240 degrees".

I just nodded dumbly and said something intelligent like "Oh".

It made no sense to me then, and still doesn't. Was he talking out of his base plate?

Tony
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#15 NB Lola

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 05:55 PM

Hi

Can anyone give me any owners feed back on Canaline 38 engines? I am considering buying one to replace my BMC 1.5. It would just be interesting to know of someones real world experiences.

cheers

Paul Jackson



Hi,


I have a Canaline 42, fitted in January 2011 by Aqua Narrowboats at Willington. Problems none, of any kind.



Not sure if more needs saying! :cheers: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:



Paul
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#16 mrsmelly

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 06:00 PM

Not quite.

The Bukh 3 cylinder has harmonic balancers that counteract the vibration tendency. However they are a bit outside the price range for most canal owners.


I had a 3 pot Bukh the Dv 36 in a past narrowboat. A simply superb bit of kit and a PROPER marine diesel. Started from minus 15 etc easily at first spin, no preheaters needed. A shame they are so expensive.

Tim
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#17 Albion

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 06:42 PM

An engineer, looking at my 3.10 said words to the effect of "Many people don't realise that a 3 cylinder is naturally more balanced than a 4 cylinder with a firing stoke every 240 degrees".

I just nodded dumbly and said something intelligent like "Oh".

It made no sense to me then, and still doesn't. Was he talking out of his base plate?

Tony


I think his view is slightly unbalanced (sorry :lol: )
The three cylinders (without balance shafts) have a rocking unbalanced motion. Generally the greater the number of cylinders the better the balance but this has to be treated with caution because of the multiple cylinder configurations (flat, vee 60 deg, vee 90 deg, in-line, W etc). Digging back in my memory from my college days, when we used to use a hammer and chisel to make notes on our tablets of stone, I seem to remember that a straight 6 cylinder engine was the first with perfect primary harmonic balance and the V12 the first with both perfect primary and secondary.
As I said before I remember the Lister LPWS3 marine engine having bracing rods on each side between the engine feet (IIRC) to stiffen it due to the imbalance. It was the only Lister engine that I remember having to have special measures to prevent it shaking itself apart.
Roger

Edited by Albion, 18 April 2012 - 06:44 PM.

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#18 cereal tiller

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 06:53 PM

I think his view is slightly unbalanced (sorry :lol: )
The three cylinders (without balance shafts) have a rocking unbalanced motion. Generally the greater the number of cylinders the better the balance but this has to be treated with caution because of the multiple cylinder configurations (flat, vee 60 deg, vee 90 deg, in-line, W etc). Digging back in my memory from my college days, when we used to use a hammer and chisel to make notes on our tablets of stone, I seem to remember that a straight 6 cylinder engine was the first with perfect primary harmonic balance and the V12 the first with both perfect primary and secondary.
As I said before I remember the Lister LPWS3 marine engine having bracing rods on each side between the engine feet (IIRC) to stiffen it due to the imbalance. It was the only Lister engine that I remember having to have special measures to prevent it shaking itself apart.
Roger

My memory agrees with yours ,i repaired a V 12 deutz a while ago,none of the elements that fed the injectors had been correctly calibrated,but,as those engines are inherently smooth,the state of tune is not a real problem.
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#19 Albion

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 06:59 PM

My memory agrees with yours ,i repaired a V 12 deutz a while ago,none of the elements that fed the injectors had been correctly calibrated,but,as those engines are inherently smooth,the state of tune is not a real problem.

Agreed. The one engine that I have worked on where it was very difficult to be certain which cylinder was misfiring was the Jaguar V12 injection. It ran so smoothly that even with one cylinder down it was difficult to detect exactly which one.
Roger
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#20 jacksonp_uk

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Posted 19 April 2012 - 07:18 AM

As the owner of nb "Fruit of The Vine", reviewed in Canalboat mag dec 2010, the Canaline 42 has proved to be a nost reliable engine. It has slightly more torque than the HMI Isuzu equivalent and otherwise perfoms in a similar way. From the DIY standpoint it is very easy to change the oil and filter. I had an initial problem, that turned out not to be an engine fault, and Bob Cantwell visited the boat with no hesitation and so can certainly vouch for their after sales service. Hope this helps.


Hi Keith (and all)

Thank you for your usefull feedback. It is very re-assurring. I certainly cannot find any negative comments about these engines up to now.

cheers

Paul Jackson
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