Scary moment in Leeds & Liverpool lock

[starman]

We were coming down the Field three lock staircase today with another boat. Emptying the top lock into the middle, it was well down when suddenly our boat appeared to snag on the sidewall and started to tip sideways . In the time it took me to shut the two paddles a slight tip had become about 30 degrees! We opened the top paddles to put water in and the boat came level again. Our companion boat was unaffected.

Tried again and went down through the locks ok.

Very scary, very quick and caused some damage inside - glasses, plates, coffee pot etc all smashed on floor!

Still not sure why it happened - I spoke to a local CRT worker later and he thought we might have snagged on a ground paddle bracket.

Moral: always keep your boat on sight and always pay attention if your at the helm - Starwoman at the helm sounded the horn for me immediately.

[NilesMI]

Phew! Well saved.

 

Might be a good idea to report the incident to CRT, officially. Not to cause a fuss or complain, but if something similar has happened before it might prompt them to take a look for a dodgy bracket, misaligned brickwork or whatever.

 

Just out of interest, how long is your boat?

[churchward]

We were coming down the Field three lock staircase today with another boat. Emptying the top lock into the middle, it was well down when suddenly our boat appeared to snag on the sidewall and started to tip sideways . In the time it took me to shut the two paddles a slight tip had become about 30 degrees! We opened the top paddles to put water in and the boat came level again. Our companion boat was unaffected.

Tried again and went down through the locks ok.

Very scary, very quick and caused some damage inside - glasses, plates, coffee pot etc all smashed on floor!

Still not sure why it happened - I spoke to a local CRT worker later and he thought we might have snagged on a ground paddle bracket.

Moral: always keep your boat on sight and always pay attention if your at the helm - Starwoman at the helm sounded the horn for me immediately.

I am glad everyone is OK and the boat too.

 

It is scary when this sort of thing happens. We are all so used to spending a quiet 5-10 mins waiting for a lock to empty or fill but when it goes wrong it does so all too and scarily quickly! Good job you all had your wits about you and were able to correct the problem.

[starman]

Phew! Well saved.

 

Might be a good idea to report the incident to CRT, officially. Not to cause a fuss or complain, but if something similar has happened before it might prompt them to take a look for a dodgy bracket, misaligned brickwork or whatever.

 

Just out of interest, how long is your boat?

Might well do that - the boat is 56ft inc fenders

[JessicaBOO]

Sorry to hear about your fright & happy to hear all ended well. Field 3 Rise is the only 3 Rise Staircase in the country that does not have a full time lock keeper. Something we have been in dispute with CRT about for quite a while - they did agree to put cover on for 2 hours a day after we raised our concerns. Anyway, we will have a chat with Nick who was the last full time lockie on field and ask his opinion and let you know what he says.

[starman]

Sorry to hear about your fright & happy to hear all ended well. Field 3 Rise is the only 3 Rise Staircase in the country that does not have a full time lock keeper. Something we have been in dispute with CRT about for quite a while - they did agree to put cover on for 2 hours a day after we raised our concerns. Anyway, we will have a chat with Nick who was the last full time lockie on field and ask his opinion and let you know what he says.

I should just add that we'd checked and adjusted the level in the middle lock to be correct (in the marked green zone) before setting off down.

Does it need a lock keeper? I don't know. The instructions are clear and what happened to us could happen in many locks.

It certainly needs checking out though and I've emailed CART.

[churchward]

I should just add that we'd checked and adjusted the level in the middle lock to be correct (in the marked green zone) before setting off down.

Does it need a lock keeper? I don't know. The instructions are clear and what happened to us could happen in many locks.

It certainly needs checking out though and I've emailed CART.

Good for you I think it is worth reporting any incident like this to CRT.

[MoominPapa]

Sorry to hear about your fright & happy to hear all ended well. Field 3 Rise is the only 3 Rise Staircase in the country that does not have a full time lock keeper.

 

 

I'm pretty sure that the Northgate staircase in Chester doesn't have a lockkeeper. We've transited that unsupervised, or sometimes with a vollocky.

 

MP.

[stripey]

Quite a long time ago we had a similar problem when coming up Wardle lock. The gunwale caught on a slightly protruding block on one side, and it took no time for the boat to start tipping. We had to act quickly and all was OK.

 

You certainly can't take anything for granted in a lock!

[NickF]

Scary stuff! I think I have shared that very lock with you a few years ago, you were in Star and we were in hire boat Bridie Bear. I hope stardog was OK as well!

[Guest]

Sorry to hear about your fright & happy to hear all ended well. Field 3 Rise is the only 3 Rise Staircase in the country that does not have a full time lock keeper. Something we have been in dispute with CRT about for quite a while - they did agree to put cover on for 2 hours a day after we raised our concerns. Anyway, we will have a chat with Nick who was the last full time lockie on field and ask his opinion and let you know what he says.

 

Is that definite, when we have done Rodley to Leeds there was no sign of a locky at the two three rise staircases between Rodley and Kirkstall. Newlay locks and Forge Locks. We followed the instructions on the boards. I remember the first time well because I messed up on Newlay Locks and flooded the flight!

 

That's a couple of years ago now though.

[by'eck]

Had a surprisingly similar scary moment last year descending the manned triple staircase at Newlay approaching Leeds.

 

I was single handing in my trad 60 ft nb so remained on board at the helm. Engine room doors were open both sides as it was mid summer. A mixture of regular and volunteer staff were present totalling six I believe. I had just passed a single boat ascending and was now in the slightly overfilled middle chamber at a slight angle to allow gates to be shut behind given boat length. Two of the volunteers were told to raise the lower paddles and my boat started to descend. Very shortly afterwards I noticed the boat taking on an unusual attitude. After that things happened very quickly. I yelled then screemed for paddles to be closed. Took a few seconds for staff to realise the issue and take action. I then rushed into engine 'ole to close port side doors as that was where water was going to enter as stern dropped and boat heeled. Took a few attempts as doors were swinging open given the angle, but remember seeing water just four inches from bottom of door aperture!

 

I then returned to stern to find situation under control with bottom paddles now closed and top ones being opened to restore level. It was explained that my main stbd bow strake had caught on the right angle concrete edge of chamber recess for bottom gates. I believe it unlikely this would have happened if chamber hadn't been overfilled.

 

After pulse rate had dropped a little, I apologised for my shouting and thanked staff. The guy in charge told me I was entirely justified. Decided not to report incident as I felt lessons had been learnt by all in attendance.

[Midnight]

Field 3 is IMO the most dangerous lock on the system for the inexperienced boater. Twice in the past 12 years I've had similar incidents at that lock. So many pitfalls even the mooring bollards can snag a rope of the unwary. I believe CRT leave this lock unmanned to see if there is a major incident probably planning to remove the lockies from the other triples between Leeds and Rodley if there isn't.

[JessicaBOO]

 

Is that definite, when we have done Rodley to Leeds there was no sign of a locky at the two three rise staircases between Rodley and Kirkstall. Newlay locks and Forge Locks. We followed the instructions on the boards. I remember the first time well because I messed up on Newlay Locks and flooded the flight!

 

That's a couple of years ago now though.

[JessicaBOO]

All the locks into Leeds should be manned - if not they are probably attending an incident elsewhere. The locks into Leeds are generally locked to prevent vandalism outside the attended hours.

 

I agree with Midnight - Field is a dangerous lock, there have been and continue to be a lot of incidents on there. We take all our hire boaters through the lock during the hand over or organise a lockie to meet them if they are coming down & we aren't available. Anyone who does have concerns - the lock is manned between 1 & 2 pm every day.

[mross]

Could the other boat have had its (side) fenders out?

[starman]

It did but we were snagged on the wall side and there was free movement between us both when we were locking together the rest of the time.

 

I suspect a contributory factor was that we draw three feet so our base plate could snag on something a shallower boat's would not.

[alan_fincher]

I suspect a contributory factor was that we draw three feet so our base plate could snag on something a shallower boat's would not.

 

Other factors may be....

 

1) How wide is your baseplate compared to the overall beam of the boat. Many modern builds have a narrower baseplate, and the sides taper towards it, but boats built "Birmingham square" can be as wide across the bottom as they are anywhere, and hence any small degree of tilt can cause them to hang on something.

2) (Similar) How much does the rubbing edge project beyond the hull sides.

 

Early on after we came back to boating we were involved in a similar incident descending a lock on the GU. Sharing a lock, going down, we suddenly started to heel over. In that case a granite rubbing stone on the lock side had been given an inappropriate repair by a contractor. Instead of a feathered edge that a boat should not hang on, it now had a ledge on top about 1.5" wide. This was enough for our baseplate to sit on, and because we then tilted and jammed against the other boat, we then had no possibility of the boat slipping off this ledge that shouldn't have been there.

 

Unless all lock sides are completely smooth, (which few are of course!) this is always a risk area, and the "more square" your hull probably the greater the risk.

 

Perversely you are told not to deploy side fenders in locks, but in the case of our incident, if we had had them, we could not have become hung!

[Neil2]

 

Other factors may be....

 

1) How wide is your baseplate compared to the overall beam of the boat. Many modern builds have a narrower baseplate, and the sides taper towards it, but boats built "Birmingham square" can be as wide across the bottom as they are anywhere, and hence any small degree of tilt can cause them to hang on something.

2) (Similar) How much does the rubbing edge project beyond the hull sides.

 

Early on after we came back to boating we were involved in a similar incident descending a lock on the GU. Sharing a lock, going down, we suddenly started to heel over. In that case a granite rubbing stone on the lock side had been given an inappropriate repair by a contractor. Instead of a feathered edge that a boat should not hang on, it now had a ledge on top about 1.5" wide. This was enough for our baseplate to sit on, and because we then tilted and jammed against the other boat, we then had no possibility of the boat slipping off this ledge that shouldn't have been there.

 

Unless all lock sides are completely smooth, (which few are of course!) this is always a risk area, and the "more square" your hull probably the greater the risk.

 

Perversely you are told not to deploy side fenders in locks, but in the case of our incident, if we had had them, we could not have become hung!

 

I had a similar experience, the one and only time we've been hung up in a lock was when a rubbing strake caught on a protruding bolt and if the fenders had been down it wouldn't have happened. That's why i have mixed feelings about fenders in locks I think there are arguments for and against unless we're talking about really narrow stuff eg Hurleston, the Stratford canal, HNC.

 

Good point about baseplate width, I don't know how many boats will have square hulls but Jonathan Wilson builds them that way seemingly because it gives an impression of greater space inside. I don't get this, our boat has a mere 6 foot wide bottom but inside it looks no different to most narrowboats.

[FadeToScarlet]

At least you can drop the paddles, we got the baseplate caught on the "safety" chains in Irthlingborough lock, but you can't drop the guillotine gate once the timer locks it open.

[magpie patrick]

Sorry to hear about your fright & happy to hear all ended well. Field 3 Rise is the only 3 Rise Staircase in the country that does not have a full time lock keeper. Something we have been in dispute with CRT about for quite a while - they did agree to put cover on for 2 hours a day after we raised our concerns. Anyway, we will have a chat with Nick who was the last full time lockie on field and ask his opinion and let you know what he says.

 

Two things: first, no it's not, Northgate in Chester has no regular lock keeper, and I don't think the two on the Chesterfield do either, although they are narrow and shallower

 

second, this incident was nothing to do with this being a three rise, it just happened in one. Boats can get snagged in any lock, and a lot of L&L single locks have (or have had) lower ground paddles if a bracket from this was the cause.

Edited August 1, 2016 by magpie patrick

[Grebe]

We had a boat hang on a metal slide-bracket in one of the middle cambers of Bingley 5 Rise about 20 years ago. Two boats in the lock. The locky was working the far side and I was working the towpath side.

 

It was on my side, spoted quickly, big shout went up, all stopped and quickly sorted. It was the rubbing strake that caught. I thought it was because it was not fully rounded at the bottom, so it did not slide over the bracket edge.

[Neil2]

We had a boat hang on a metal slide-bracket in one of the middle cambers of Bingley 5 Rise about 20 years ago. Two boats in the lock. The locky was working the far side and I was working the towpath side.

 

It was on my side, spoted quickly, big shout went up, all stopped and quickly sorted. It was the rubbing strake that caught. I thought it was because it was not fully rounded at the bottom, so it did not slide over the bracket edge.

 

In our case it was because the strake was only stitch welded. The boat we have now has them continuously welded top and bottom...

 

Re locks - does Grindley Brook staircase have a full time lock keeper? It is many years since we were there but I'm sure it wasn't manned the last time we went through.

[magpie patrick]

 

In our case it was because the strake was only stitch welded. The boat we have now has them continuously welded top and bottom...

 

Re locks - does Grindley Brook staircase have a full time lock keeper? It is many years since we were there but I'm sure it wasn't manned the last time we went through.

 

Not sure now, but it used to be the case that there was a keeper in residence but the flight was open if he wasn't around.

[starman]

Deleted as duplicated

Edited August 1, 2016 by starman