The Vine Prog Today, Friday

[Dave_P]

 

You can't be - no limp

 

Richard

Watch to the end

[RLWP]

Watch to the end

 

 

Richard

[BMC problems]

Would you care to point out exactly where, in any of my posts, I accused anyone of breaking the law.

 

Ken

"Their only reason for moving the boat is to try to comply with the terms of the 1995 act and hence is NOT bona fide

 

Though feel free to deny this is what you said.

[Dave_P]

"Their only reason for moving the boat is to try to comply with the terms of the 1995 act and hence is NOT bona fide

 

Though feel free to deny this is what you said.

This is an assumption but I can understand how it was arrived at. It does also raise a valid point about what we mean by bona fide.

[Athy]

"Their only reason for moving the boat is to try to comply with the terms of the 1995 act and hence is NOT bona fide

 

Though feel free to deny this is what you said.

But where is the reference to breaking the law? Ken points out that the boat is moving to COMPLY with the law (or rather the rules, I don't think that CART are yet able to pass laws) - that means to keep within the rules.

[KenK]

"Their only reason for moving the boat is to try to comply with the terms of the 1995 act and hence is NOT bona fide

 

Though feel free to deny this is what you said.

I have no intention of denying it, that is exactly what I said, however I'm not quite sure how you interpret that as their breaking a law or indeed me claiming that they were.

Is English your first language because your grasp of it seems limited.

 

The lady requested from C&RT a distance which they have to travel to comply with the 1995 act, or the rules, guidance, terms & conditions etc. which she claimed she didn't know but there is no set distance either in the act or the T&C's.

Bona Fide is determined by the way the boat is used i.e. its primary purpose which in their case, judging by what she stated on the radio, is as a home.

As soon as anyone asks the, how far is far enough question, they immediately open themselves up to a failure to pass the bona fide test.

 

Another example

 

A couple purchased a narrow boat 15 years ago and kept it in a marina using it for holidays and weekends.

Last year they retired, they have rented out their house, their children have homes of their own.

This year they have given up their mooring and set off in their boat to explore the Inland Waterways of England.

The boat is their home for the foreseeable future.

The primary purpose of their use of the boat is to explore, the use as a home is secondary, hence the navigation is bona fide.

 

Or.

 

A single 30 year old man, works from his boat as a software engineer, lives aboard, has no other dwelling.

He works when he feels like it, moves his boat when he wishes always staying within the time limits for mooring, not confined to one area, wandering around the system as he wishes.

Again the navigation is bona fide.

 

Do those two examples, again my opinion, make it easier for you?

 

Ken

[BMC problems]

I have no intention of denying it, that is exactly what I said, however I'm not quite sure how you interpret that as their breaking a law or indeed me claiming that they were.

Is English your first language because your grasp of it seems limited.

 

 

I will take your insult as a reflection of your inability to discuss things as an adult.

 

I have no further interest in anything you have to say.

[BMC problems]

He is completely wrong. Bona fide navigation is a matter of 'fact'.

 

[Athy]

 

 

As I posted earlier Kenneth Dodd told a select committee what was expected of boaters.

 

 

I bet they were tickled.

[Allan(nb Albert)]

I bet they were tickled.

Tickled pink ...

[KenK]

He is completely wrong. Bona fide navigation is a matter of 'fact'.

 

I suggest a reread of the 1995 Act is in order.

 

As I posted earlier Kenneth Dodd told a select committee what was expected of boaters.

 

It's quite easy - if you do not have a home mooring you should not remain in one place for more than 14 days without reason.

Sorry, who is completely wrong?

 

Ken

 

I will take your insult as a reflection of your inability to discuss things as an adult.

 

I have no further interest in anything you have to say.

Insult? I asked a question.

 

You were quite happy to insult me, you called me rude and malicious.

 

If you can't take it don't dish it out.

 

Ken

[Tuscan]

He is completely wrong. Bona fide navigation is a matter of 'fact'.

 

I suggest a reread of the 1995 Act is in order.

 

As I posted earlier Kenneth Dodd told a select committee what was expected of boaters.

 

It's quite easy - if you do not have a home mooring you should not remain in one place for more than 14 days without reason.

 

And if you do have a home mooring ?

[Athy]

Tickled pink ...

[Arthur Marshall]

And if you do have a home mooring ?

You can stay on it as long as you like!

[KenK]

And if you do have a home mooring ?

Exactly the same. The licence allows you to moor on the tow-path for a period of 14 days or less if there are signs indicating a shorter period. Then you need to move.

 

Ken

[Allan(nb Albert)]

You can stay on it as long as you like!

Quite. But Mark already knows that ...

[MtB]

Exactly the same. The licence allows you to moor on the tow-path for a period of 14 days or less if there are signs indicating a shorter period. Then you need to move.

 

Ken

Which bit of the law says this please?

 

I know it's in the t&c but there is a Skool of thought says compliance is optional.

[Arthur Marshall]

The only issues appear to the meaning of "place" and "bona fide navigation". As neither of these can legally be defined by anything other than court action (and it appears only on a case by case basis even then) , common sense decrees you try to stay within sensible parameters, which is what most of us do and why we never have any problems with CRT.

If you can't for one reason or another, you just have to accept that life might get a bit stressful until differences of opinion gets settled. No different really from those struggling with housing and rental law changes - at least it seems to take longer to kick you off the water (and with more chances to comply and so stay) than it does for a landlord to make you homeless.

Edited May 5, 2016 by Arthur Marshall

[Ray T]

Who is Dave Smith? Used he to post on here, as Chris Pink did?

 

No, that was Emma B, Alf Roberts, Dave Clinton or any other name?

[Dave_P]

Which bit of the law says this please?

 

I know it's in the t&c but there is a Skool of thought says compliance is optional.

Has anyone ever been subject to their licence being revoked or boat seized due to a breach of the T&Cs?

[KenK]

Which bit of the law says this please?

 

I know it's in the t&c but there is a Skool of thought says compliance is optional.

Exactly it is in the T&C's which when you fill in the licence application form you sign as agreeing to.

 

Legally as I believe Nigel has pointed out only boaters without a home mooring actually have the right as mentioned by the 1995 act to moor for up to 14 days, the rest of us have to rely on the T&C's.

 

There may be an argument for as it is not prohibited by the act then it's allowed but I suspect somewhere or other there is a bye-law otherwise what stops anyone just mooring permanently on the tow-path for free, the old ghost mooring trick.

 

Ken

[Dave_P]

Exactly it is in the T&C's which when you fill in the licence application form you sign as agreeing to.

 

Legally as I believe Nigel has pointed out only boaters without a home mooring actually have the right as mentioned by the 1995 act to moor for up to 14 days, the rest of us have to rely on the T&C's.

 

There may be an argument for as it is not prohibited by the act then it's allowed but I suspect somewhere or other there is a bye-law otherwise what stops anyone just mooring permanently on the tow-path for free, the old ghost mooring trick.

 

Ken

Nothing. Which is the point, is it not?

[KenK]

Nothing. Which is the point, is it not?

You may well be correct although I suspect C&RT may have a different view. Fortunately it is not an issue for me when I leave my mooring overnight is usually long enough on a tow-path, then onward to pastures new.

 

Ken

[Allan(nb Albert)]

Exactly it is in the T&C's which when you fill in the licence application form you sign as agreeing to.

 

Legally as I believe Nigel has pointed out only boaters without a home mooring actually have the right as mentioned by the 1995 act to moor for up to 14 days, the rest of us have to rely on the T&C's.

 

There may be an argument for as it is not prohibited by the act then it's allowed but I suspect somewhere or other there is a bye-law otherwise what stops anyone just mooring permanently on the tow-path for free, the old ghost mooring trick.

 

Ken

I think it is important to emphasise yet again that BW attempted to obtain powers to restrict mooring in the 1995 Act but failed to do so.

 

It could be argued that, in asking for those powers, BW accepted that the grant of a licence allowed boats the be moored without any time limit and subject only to not causing an obstruction as defined in previous legislation.

 

Edited May 5, 2016 by Allan(nb Albert)

[adam1uk]

As I posted earlier Kenneth Dodd told a select committee what was expected of boaters.

 

I'm not sure why you put such emphasis on what someone said *before* the Act was passed. I'm sure lots of people said lots of things at that stage, when the details were being wrestled with.