Short stay moorings

[jellybeano]

We were in central Birmingham recently, where the mooring signs now say "2 days". Is this different to 48 hours? The latter is self explanatory, but does 2 days mean you arrive for instance during Monday, and leave during Tuesday? Or could it mean you arrive sometime on Sunday to spend ALL of Monday and Tuesday there, departing during Wednesday?

[NB Lola]

A day is 24 hours. 2 days is 48 hours, a bit difficult for anyone to argue that.

[MtB]

We were in central Birmingham recently, where the mooring signs now say "2 days". Is this different to 48 hours? The latter is self explanatory, but does 2 days mean you arrive for instance during Monday, and leave during Tuesday? Or could it mean you arrive sometime on Sunday to spend ALL of Monday and Tuesday there, departing during Wednesday?

 

 

Being picky, I'd say the difference lies in the resolution. "48 hours" is far more precise than "2 days".

 

When measuring the time of your stay in days, I'd say arriving on Sunday and leaving on Tuesday counted as two days. But when measuring in hours, you'd need to leave at the same time on Tuesday as you arrived on the Sunday.

 

But in reality I doubt CRT draws any distinction, which appears to be the point of your question...

[dogless]

I always think of these signs as guidelines rather than fixed terms in both cases.

 

I suggest you're unlikely to incur anyone's wrath unless you take up permanent residence. I don't think a matter of hours either way would create an issue.

 

Rog

[OldGoat]

Mike the Boilerman, on 10 Apr 2016 - 09:34 AM, said:

 

 

Being picky, I'd say the difference lies in the resolution. "48 hours" is far more precise than "2 days".

 

When measuring the time of your stay in days, I'd say arriving on Sunday and leaving on Tuesday counted as two days. But when measuring in hours, you'd need to leave at the same time on Tuesday as you arrived on the Sunday.

 

But in reality I doubt CRT draws any distinction, which appears to be the point of your question...

 

What it does is to create - as they said in my late industry - FUD; Fear Uncertainty and Doubt. When push comes to shove all it does it to produce more income for some lawyers.

 

OTOH - if applied reasonably it should work as you suggest. After all what CaRT want to do is to ensure that there's sufficient space for what the canals (after Nationalization) had become - used for cruising.

 

Time will tell.

[alan_fincher]

CRT has confirmed in the past that in the case of the heavily monitored moorings at Stoke Bruerne, Foxton and Thrupp 2 days actually means 2 nights,

 

So if you arrive at any time on (say) a Monday, you may stay Monday and Tuesday nights, but must have moved before Wednesday night to avoid being invoiced the stated charge.

 

So 2 days can actually be a longer stay than 48 hours, (you can arrive Monday breakfast time and leave at Wednesday tea time).

 

We did suggest that id they mean nights the signs would be better off saying nights, but they would not take up that suggestion.

[MtB]

CRT has confirmed in the past that in the case of the heavily monitored moorings at Stoke Bruerne, Foxton and Thrupp 2 days actually means 2 nights,

 

 

But did you ask them what "48 hours" means? Possibly the same?

 

Or do they raise an invoice at 49 hours?!

[alan_fincher]

 

 

But did you ask them what "48 hours" means? Possibly the same?

 

No 48 hours means 48 hours.

 

When they recently prepared new maps in connection with Brunston, they all referred to 48 hours, not 2 days, as at other so-called honey-spot moorings in the South East area.

 

I queried why not 2 days, to bring it into line with Stoke Bruerne, Foxton, Thrupp etc, and was told no, Braunston would remain as 48 hours, because that is what it had been historically, and they didn't wish to add confusion by changing it!

 

I would suggest that the kind of question being asked in this thread proves they have already built in enough confusion, whether they change anything or not.

 

I can't see how they could invoice the £25 charges if they use 48 hours rather than 2 days (actually nights). The volunteer checkers don't patrol the stretches at exactly the same times each day, and the use of "days" stops that being a problem, whereas with 48 hours it can be.

[MtB]

No 48 hours means 48 hours.

 

 

Ok thanks for your reply.

 

So the CRT position is an overstay 'invoice' will be raised at 49 hours, in the vanishingly unlikely circumstance that the boater be unlucky enough to encounter checkers checking 49 hours apart...

[Arthur Marshall]

I suppose two days is fairly clear, really, in its equal meaning of two nights. You arrive day 1,can stay for all of day 2,but have to clear off sometime during day 3 - gives you just two nights. I don't think it should cause too much fear and uncertainty.

[Athy]

Why do the words "left hand" and "right hand", and indeed "arse" and "elbow", spring to mind?

[ditchcrawler]

CRT has confirmed in the past that in the case of the heavily monitored moorings at Stoke Bruerne, Foxton and Thrupp 2 days actually means 2 nights,

 

So if you arrive at any time on (say) a Monday, you may stay Monday and Tuesday nights, but must have moved before Wednesday night to avoid being invoiced the stated charge.

 

So 2 days can actually be a longer stay than 48 hours, (you can arrive Monday breakfast time and leave at Wednesday tea time).

 

We did suggest that id they mean nights the signs would be better off saying nights, but they would not take up that suggestion.

Bit like a 3 day licence for the Thames which if you work it right is actually 4 days and 3 nights.

[furnessvale]

We did suggest that id they mean nights the signs would be better off saying nights, but they would not take up that suggestion.

I have always felt that signs saying "nights" would be far more sensible.

 

You arrive at say 5pm. What is the point of having to leave at 5pm the next day or perhaps 2 days (assuming you obey the letter of the law).

 

George ex nb Alton retired

[bassplayer]

What it does is to create - as they said in my late industry - FUD; Fear Uncertainty and Doubt. When push comes to shove all it does it to produce more income for some lawyers.

 

 

Absolutely bang on there. Whether that was their intention I have no idea.

[jellybeano]

Thanks for all the comments, by the way, we stayed two nights, but less than 48 hours!!!

On our way onwards, via Smethwick Locks, we noticed the Engine Arm was closed and drained for fairly major-looking work. Had missed hearing about it. Anyone know how long it has been going on, and for how much longer......there is a useful pump out machine at the end of it. We then lucked out with an open day at Smethwick pumping engine...fascinating!

[ditchcrawler]

Thanks for all the comments, by the way, we stayed two nights, but less than 48 hours!!!

On our way onwards, via Smethwick Locks, we noticed the Engine Arm was closed and drained for fairly major-looking work. Had missed hearing about it. Anyone know how long it has been going on, and for how much longer......there is a useful pump out machine at the end of it. We then lucked out with an open day at Smethwick pumping engine...fascinating!

https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/notice/6987/engine-arm-aqueduct-smethwick-engine-arm-canal

[jellybeano]

Many thanks, ditchcrawler, information about the Engine Arm closure was just what I wanted to know, and had failed to notice!

[alan_fincher]

 

 

Ok thanks for your reply.

 

So the CRT position is an overstay 'invoice' will be raised at 49 hours, in the vanishingly unlikely circumstance that the boater be unlucky enough to encounter checkers checking 49 hours apart...

 

This suppose sites that both have the stay time in hours rather than days and also the signs that say an overstay charge will be raised.

 

Such a combination may well exist somewhere, but I can't recall seeing one personally. The sites that have had overstay charges added to them on South East Waterways all, I think, give maximum stay time in days not hours.

 

(However these things are sufficiently random in their implementation, that I'm expecting someone will be able to post details of a site measured in hours where overstay charges are signed up as well!)

[dogless]

Surely, without mooring wardens on every one of these restricted sites, on duty every day, the signage can only be intended as a guide.

 

At present any enforcement of the 48hr/two day restrictions is not possible until someone records a boats presence, which could be days after it's arrival.

 

I would suggest that the vast majority who use these moorings will do so within the spirit of the restrictions, if not to the letter of them, and will encounter no problems.

 

Rog

[Alway Swilby]

At Hopwas north of Tamworth on the Birmingham & Fazely (or maybe the Coventry) it's 48 hours to the left and 2 days to the right.

 

edited to get the picture the right way up (I think)

 

Edited April 11, 2016 by Alway Swilby

[alan_fincher]

At Hopwas north of Tamworth on the Birmingham & Fazely (or maybe the Coventry) it's 48 hours to the left and 2 days to the right.

 

edited to get the picture the right way up (I think)

 

20160325_154535.jpg

 

That is absolutely cracking.

 

I will almost certainly use that bit of ridiculousness at future meetings with CRT where they keep glossing over the confusion caused by this particular anomaly.

 

I assume the image has not been Photoshopped? ()

[ditchcrawler]

 

That is absolutely cracking.

 

I will almost certainly use that bit of ridiculousness at future meetings with CRT where they keep glossing over the confusion caused by this particular anomaly.

 

I assume the image has not been Photoshopped? ()

How about this one, Gailey lock moorings below the bridge are 48 hr

[Alway Swilby]

That is absolutely cracking.

 

I will almost certainly use that bit of ridiculousness at future meetings with CRT where they keep glossing over the confusion caused by this particular anomaly.

 

I assume the image has not been Photoshopped? ()

Nope, no Photoshopping involved. Picture taken in March this year.