Log/coal burner

[Timx]

Hi again, another question, I have a new boat, never had a log burner before, my observations so far, are that ,they are dirty,in so far as all surfaces seem to have a coal hue throughout the boat,, and need constant, twice at least, cleaning daily.

Everything seems okay, its not smokey inside, I have no issues, I think this is normal from what I am told.

However , I have questions, if anyone can shed light.

Is it unhealthy?

As coal is £11 A BAG, and that lasts us say five days, how much would it cost to use diesel central heating instead for12 hours a day as diesel is so cheap currently, I have no idea how much the webasto systems use?

Thanks..

[Loafer]

You might have to wait till tomorrow for a proper answer, Tim. I have two coal stoves on my boat, but never noticed the need to clean it up.

 

Mind you, Mrs Loafer seems to apply the Dyson to a lot of our boat, often.

[Timx]

Not a stove just a burner with a chimney

[Loafer]

Not a stove just a burner with a chimney

 

That's a stove, innit?

[Timx]

Ah right I was thinking a stove cooked food, as opposed to a burner for heat only, sorry yeah a stove Morso, as I say think it works all ok , just not used to it.

[Loafer]

Ah right I was thinking a stove cooked food, as opposed to a burner for heat only, sorry yeah a stove Morso, as I say think it works all ok , just not used to it.

 

A Morso is generally considered to be the best solid-fuel stove going. Cheaper ones are available.

 

Learn it, love it, trust it. Get someone to clean the boat every now and again.

Don't burn logs in it, they tar up your chimney. Burn good coal.

[Timx]

yeah I am using coal, its g/f telling me, I am on the tiller breathing cleaner air, also wondered about the price comparison betwixt coal and webasto diesel consumption.?

[Boaty Jo]

Don't burn logs in it, they tar up your chimney. Burn good coal.

 

Don't agree with this. Yes, green / damp logs will tar up, particularly when damped down overnight, but not seasoned hardwoods like Ash or oak.

We burned seasoned oak exclusively for full winters without sweeping the flue once. A hot burn at least once a day kept it clear.

 

Attached is a link to a PDF (3rd down the list if the link works) of the drip diesel boiler we had (Old Dutch) showing fuel consumption. These (natural draught or drip fed) heaters are usually lit and left to tick away full time for ambient heat.

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=Kabola+Old+Dutch+diesel+consumption&oq=Kabola+Old+Dutch+diesel+consumption+&aqs=chrome..69i57.25101j0j7&sourceid=chrome&es_sm=122&ie=UTF-8#q=kabola+old+dutch+diesel+stove

 

Also, taken from Webasto's own blurb - Of course, the fuel consumption is strongly depending on the needed heating power and type of heater. As very rough and noncommittal proportion a heater needs 100ml diesel per hour and kW. For further details, please see the heater’s technical specifications.

Evidently, the heater is only using fuel when combustion is in process.

[Chewbacka]

yeah I am using coal, its g/f telling me, I am on the tiller breathing cleaner air, also wondered about the price comparison betwixt coal and webasto diesel consumption.?

I am a little concerned as your stove should not be emitting fumes into the boat when in use.

Unless you mean the small amount of dust that appears from nowhere when you have a stove burning.

Probably when the breeze is along the boat roof the tiller area will have a higher level of fumes from the chimney, but not enough to concern most people.

 

I also trust that you have a couple of CO alarms in case of fume leakage into the boat. These are in my opinion vital safety equipment.

 

This may be of interest as to fuel consumption for a diesel burner

http://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=42673

Edited March 12, 2016 by Chewbacka

[cuthound]

There are two types of diesel heating.

 

1. Those that heat the radiators and calorifier, such as Webasto, Mikuni and Eberspacher. These are not designed for continuous use, and prefer being worked to an on off cycle which allows them to run flat out.

 

2. Drip feed stoves, which replace your coal stove. Typical makes are Kubola Old Dutch/English, Bubble and Lockgate.

 

Both types consume around 0.25 - 0.75 litres per hour depending on setting.

[Rickent]

We have a boatman stove, and yes we do get some dust in the boat, mostly comes from when we empty and sweep the ashpan. Small price to pay for being toasty 24/7.

[BlueStringPudding]

 

Also, taken from Webasto's own blurb - Of course, the fuel consumption is strongly depending on the needed heating power and type of heater. As very rough and noncommittal proportion a heater needs 100ml diesel per hour and kW. For further details, please see the heaters technical specifications.[/font][/color]

Evidently, the heater is only using fuel when combustion is in process.

That's useful to see

 

To answer the OP's original question, then (and by all means correct my sums if I've missed something):-

 

For a 4kw diesel heater you're looking at around 400ml per hour. Diesel round here has been 58p per litre recently so that's 29p per hour cost to the OP for heating his boat just with the Webasto. Over the 12 hours duration suggested (although I wouldn't like 12 hours a day without heating) that's a total cost of £3.48 per day. If you want heating 24 hours a day you're looking at up to £6.96 depending on how well your boat holds the heat

 

A 25kg bag of coal varies according to brand but let's say it's £11 as that's the figure the OP suggests. In bitterly cold weather I use a maximum of 2.5 bags a week if I'm home all the time. So that's £33 a week or £4.71 per day.

 

 

Plus the added bonus of having the heating on 24 hours a day at full pelt if you want with coal, not just 12 hours. Plus the Brucie bonus of being able to burn free found firewood for absolutely nothing.

 

Even an expensive posh coal wins hands down over running a Webasto as your only form of heating, in terms of value for money.

 

And we've not even started to look at servicing costs.

 

Fumes from a stove chimney can be hardly better or worse for you than fumes from a diesel exhaust. And neither should find their way inside the boat.

 

Edited to add: The Webasto cost obviously doesn't include the price of diesel spent running the engine to replace the electricity it uses. If like my Eber it needs a high voltage that needs to be factored in especially when your batteries are a couple of years old and you've been watching tele all evening

 

My Eber is 4kw and it's nowhere near enough to be the sole heating source for my 65ft boat. At best it takes the chill off first thing in the morning or if I'm away before I get the stove up to temperature for some proper heating

Edited March 12, 2016 by BlueStringPudding

[S and K]

Hi BSP, there are 1000ml/l, so one litre of diesel would last 2 1/2hour, if my maths are correct?

Edited March 12, 2016 by S and K

[Chewbacka]

To answer the OP's original question, then (and by all means correct my sums if I've missed something):-

 

For a 4kw diesel heater you're looking at around 400ml per hour. Diesel round here has been 58p per litre recently so that's £1.45 per hour cost to the OP for heating his boat just with the Webasto. Over the 12 hours duration suggested (although I wouldn't like 12 hours a day without heating) that's a total cost of £17.40 per day.

 

 

 

Hi BSP, I think you made a simple mistake in your sums.

400ml per hour at 58p per litre is

0.4 x 0.58 = £0.23

So 23p per hour for diesel and not £1.45.

 

So 23p per hour for 12 hours is £2.76

 

Also the burner does not usually run 100% of the time so the 'duty cycle' would further reduce the cost per day

Edited March 12, 2016 by Chewbacka

[Robbo]

For a 4kw diesel heater you're looking at around 400ml per hour. Diesel round here has been 58p per litre recently so that's £1.45 per hour cost to the OP for heating his boat just with the Webasto.

 

 

Coal heating is around a quarter of the price of diesel heating by those calculations. Really!? I expected coal to be cheaper but not that much cheaper.

 

You might want to look at your calculations again.

[BlueStringPudding]

I already did. You guys are quick off the mark as I edited it straight away

Edited March 12, 2016 by BlueStringPudding

[Boaty Jo]

Never had a Webasto-type but just for info.....

Drip-fed heaters / boilers can come with a coil.

We had our boiler linked to both hot water cylinder (via thermosyphon) and central heating ring (via Bolin pump).

When the tank stat on the cylinder reached temperature it initiated the C/H pump diverting water round the system.

It was sited in the bottom of the wardrobe so kept linen dry and warm.

(The cylinder was also linked to an engine loop and had a 240v immersion element for when the boiler wasn't lit).

 

Our boilers were Kabola - good but expensive - but like a multi-fuel, they need regular cleaning / maintenance.

It used, I seem to remember, about 6 or 7 litres / day but if they are set up right run for up to a month at a time.

[BlueStringPudding]

My back-of-a-fag-packet calculations suggest that running a coal fire costs £4.71 per day (less when it's not bitterly cold) versus a Webasto which costs £3.48-£6.96 per day plus electrical usage plus maintenance like replacement filters and skilled servicing.

 

I'm intrigued by the Kabola though. At 7 litres per day that's £4.06 a day presumably with no electrical usage.

 

All in all the three types of heating seem to be coming in at an average of £4.50 or so a day with diesel prices as they are now, although I still favour coal because it's not a complex system. Certainly the cost wouldn't have been that close a couple of years ago when diesel wasn't so cheap. So perhaps what it comes down to is convenience and reliability more so than cost.

 

And convenience is entirely subjective because it depends on the boater's own location, nearby services, lifestyle and preferences.

Edited March 12, 2016 by BlueStringPudding

[Tony Brooks]

My back-of-a-fag-packet calculations suggest that running a coal fire costs £4.71 per day (less when it's not bitterly cold) versus a Webasto which costs £3.48-£6.96 per day plus electrical usage plus maintenance like replacement filters and skilled servicing.

 

I'm intrigued by the Kabola though. At 7 litres per day that's £4.06 a day presumably with no electrical usage.

 

All in all the three types of heating seem to be coming in at an average of £4.50 or so a day with diesel prices as they are now, although I still favour coal because it's not a complex system. Certainly the cost wouldn't have been that close a couple of years ago when diesel wasn't so cheap. So perhaps what it comes down to is convenience and reliability more so than cost.

 

And convenience is entirely subjective because it depends on the boater's own location, nearby services, lifestyle and preferences.

 

 

I certainly agree with that. I would also suggest the OP looks back at all the posts concerning problems with the Webasto TYPE boilers and compare them with the number having problems with solid fuel stoves. The stove problems are nearly all solvable with basic DIY skills, not so with the heaters.

 

My chosen heating is gas for a fast warm up while the stove gets going and to warm the boat before getting up in the morning.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[cuthound]

I have a Kabola Old Dutch dripvfeed stove fed from a dedicated 60 litre fuel tank.

 

It seems to use about 0.25 litres per hour on its !lowest setting, which keeps the front half of the boat comfortably warm on its lowest setting even on very cold days.

 

So 14.5 p per hour £1.74 per 12 hours at 58p per litre.

[peterboat]

My Rayburn royal is most certainly more expensive to run than the bubble diesel stove I have. My last lot of diesel was 39 pence a litre inc VAT at 5%. I have to use anthracite in the rayburn but it also does my cooking hot water and rads so does balance itself out. If I thought diesel/kero was going to stay this cost I would think of a oil fired Rayburn or something similar. Of course we are now dependent on coal from abroad {mostly] so are at the mercy of the importers I do use wood when I can get some good stuff.

[Robbo]

My Rayburn royal is most certainly more expensive to run than the bubble diesel stove I have. My last lot of diesel was 39 pence a litre inc VAT at 5%. I have to use anthracite in the rayburn but it also does my cooking hot water and rads so does balance itself out. If I thought diesel/kero was going to stay this cost I would think of a oil fired Rayburn or something similar. Of course we are now dependent on coal from abroad {mostly] so are at the mercy of the importers I do use wood when I can get some good stuff.

Old Rayburns aren't the most efficient things on the earth, and neither are the old oil fired Rayburns. The new ones are Pressure Jet, so same technology as Hurricane, Bubble PJ, etc. Require 240v tho.

Edited March 12, 2016 by Robbo

[peterboat]

Old Rayburns aren't the most efficient things on the earth, and neither are the old oil fired Rayburns. The new ones are Pressure Jet, so same technology as Hurricane, Bubble PJ, etc. Require 240v tho.

I dont know its no more fuel to run than my Tim Systems magic stove which was reputedly very efficient however that did use cheaper fuel . The 240 volts isnt an issue I have !kw of solar 1500 ah of full tractions and a wispergen for power. I look at the cost as a three way thing i get heat, cooking and hot water so in some ways its very cheap but very dusty

[Robbo]

I dont know its no more fuel to run than my Tim Systems magic stove which was reputedly very efficient however that did use cheaper fuel . The 240 volts isnt an issue I have !kw of solar 1500 ah of full tractions and a wispergen for power. I look at the cost as a three way thing i get heat, cooking and hot water so in some ways its very cheap but very dusty:help:

The new Rayburns are nice tho especially with the the separate central heating burners and a lot more efficient than old. Was on my shopping list at one point but it's not in keeping with the boat style I want!

Edited March 12, 2016 by Robbo

[Timx]

Cheers for replies I will just ignore her whinging and carry on with coal, and webasto for first thing in morning and hot water if needed.