Beautiful Mon and Brec.....being destroyed.

[Bobbybass]

This is my observation as an experienced live aboard/ traveller. It is NOT based on any prejudice towards any company.

 

I have just returned from a week on the Mon and Brec and must say what a beautiful canal it is. It goes through stunning scenery and passes some lovely little towns.

 

I hired a 32 foot standard narrowboat...which I thought 'could be' a little small but it turned out to be the 'best tool for the job'.

 

The Mon and Brec is very 'frail' and reminded me of the Ashby some years back..before much work was carried out. It is very narrow for the bulk of its route and extremely shallow.

 

So what...may you ask...is destroying it ?

 

A company has invested a huge amount of money in a fleet of boats (13) to captivate the hirer. They boast such things as 'on deck jaccuzi....large baths...king size beds. ..large screen TV...huge water tanks.

That is fine.....they come at a price...if thats what you want...great.

 

No..that is not the problem.

They ALL have bow thrusters...and are extremely heavy.

 

In my week...I saw nearly every one of them blasting bow thrusters whenever trying to pass me. I also saw people untie in the morning and use bow thrusters to move from the bank. Two boats were in line ahead of me one morning...bow thrusters off the mooring...bow thrusters to go around a fairly shallow corner. They are prompted (by the company) to negotiate any sharp corner with bow thrusters.

 

Some of these boats are 8 feet 6 inches wide. Due to the daily use of the bow thrusters sucking the clay seal from the base of the canal and chucking it towards the sides...it is now impossible to pass any of these semi-wide beams without them becoming well stuck. Trust me...it is IMPOSSIBLE !

I resorted to sacrificing my own boat...pushing it onto the silt...and then coping with how to get it off again once the other boat passed. This wasn't easy as the displacement of some of these boats pushed me high on the obstruction.

 

Several times ...I tried to get my light weight ..short hire boat onto an in line mooring...and it was only just possible (being 32 feet) Every mooring ring had a pile of clay about 5 feet on either side (where thrusters had been) ...and I just fitted between them.

 

As you folks here...are mainly experienced boaters...you will be able to picture what is happening. This company has a fleet of 13 boats and is purchasing another 7. It is like a continual fleet of bulldozers travelling this beautiful canal smashing it up. Every day...they become more stuck and every day they use the bow thrusters more. They are also built (i'm told) with large sacrificial strips below the water line that damages any stone canal edges.

 

There are plans to dedge some of the canal this winter..but I fear unless something is done quickly...the ripped out clay will soon lead to a breach. Either that..or one of the mega-boats will become permanently stuck.

 

If you want to see the Mon and Brec....you had better do it quickly and hire a small boat.

 

Very sad.

 

 

 

[bargemast]

Very sad to read how this beautiful canal is in the process of being destroyed rapidly.

 

Too bad the hire boat company clearly made the wrong choise for the kind of boats they offer for rent.

 

It's really very shortsighted to use these over-luxurious destroyers, as within no time they can't go anywhere anymore, and then what ?

 

Peter.

[Ally]

I wonder how aware they are of the problems being caused. Perhaps a carefully worded email to them, and/or, the authority for that canal? Are C&RT responsible for the Mon and Brec?

[Murflynn]

Agree.

 

In 2013, even with my shallow draft GRP cruiser I grounded several times in the middle of the channel. It is essential that you need to be able to overtake these huge boats regularly because most of them seem to be travelling at about 1mph, well below the speed needed to maintain steerage on my boat, and you could hear the regular groaning noise from the bow thrusters..

 

I loved the canal, I hated the frequency with which I encountered these lumbering leviathans.

 

But how can CRT control the type of boats used by the hire companies?

Are C&RT responsible for the Mon and Brec?

yes.

[carpet wallah]

How tragic. Bobbybass, you describe the situation most eloquently.

 

Unfortunately, with huge capital investment in these inappropriate boats, the hire company is stuck where it is. Maybe they could be prevailed upon to change their advice to hirers on the use of the thrusters, but that may involve educating the company themselves as to the problem in the first place.

 

Sadly, they don't appear to be in strongest of financial health, so they may have other things on their minds.

[Machpoint005]

>> Sadly, they don't appear to be in strongest of financial health, so they may have other things on their minds. <<

 

When the company goes bump. won't that solve the problem?

[RLWP]

When you say Jacuzzi, did you mean hot tub? https://beaconparkboats.com/our-fleet/our-fleet

 

Richard

[Bobbybass]

When you say Jacuzzi, did you mean hot tub? https://beaconparkboats.com/our-fleet/our-fleet

 

Richard

 

I didn't want to mention the company name..but I guess it was obvious.

Yes..hot tub....sorry.

 

As I have said....the standard of the boats doesn't worry me..bring on your 'hot tub'!

 

I llked my standard little narrowboat as it was like my own....and hot tubs and large TV's mean extra work.

Others like the 'home luxury' image.

 

It's what I witnessed first hand and what I was told by some people who were hiring. The larger boats were aground most of the day..using bow thrusteers and making things worse.

 

I was 'told' (so may not be true) that they have commissioned a further 7 boats...that means 20 of them ploughing up the canal.

 

That means that any silting up will not be in one spot..(it's not)...it will carry for large distances and be impossible to dredge.

[bag 'o' bones]

From the website:

 

No experience required...................

 

Make life easy...use a bow thruster

 

 

On a boating holiday, there is always plenty to do on the water itself, not least steering your boat, but our luxury fleet is designed with relaxation in mind. For effortless manoeuvring around bends choose a boat with a bow thruster – jets of water which can move the front of the vessel sideways with the simple push of a button located on the rear deck. Usually found only on privately-owned boats, it’s a major selling point for many of our customers, who prefer not to use the traditional barge pole.

 

Corroborates the OP'S observations it seems!

Edited June 29, 2015 by bag 'o' bones

[RLWP]

 

I didn't want to mention the company name..but I guess it was obvious.

 

After a short bit of googling, then some careful reading it was. The careful reading was so I didn't pick the wrong company and get them associated with this thread

 

Richard

[adam1uk]

From the website:

 

Usually found only on privately-owned boats, it’s a major selling point for many of our customers, who prefer not to use the traditional barge pole.

 

 

Where did these people learn their boating? I don't have a bow thruster, but I've also never used a barge pole to get round a corner. Wouldn't a tiller be a better idea?

[Machpoint005]

Where did these people learn their boating? I don't have a bow thruster, but I've also never used a barge pole to get round a corner. Wouldn't a tiller be a better idea?

 

Just as long as it has a rudder on the bottom end of it!

[Murflynn]

unfortunately the Mon & Brec Canal is so shallow in some places that trying to steer a monster boat with a tiller is almost impossible.

[Bobbybass]

From the website:

 

No experience required...................

 

Make life easy...use a bow thruster

 

 

On a boating holiday, there is always plenty to do on the water itself, not least steering your boat, but our luxury fleet is designed with relaxation in mind. For effortless manoeuvring around bends choose a boat with a bow thruster – jets of water which can move the front of the vessel sideways with the simple push of a button located on the rear deck. Usually found only on privately-owned boats, it’s a major selling point for many of our customers, who prefer not to use the traditional barge pole.

 

Corroborates the OP'S observations it seems!

 

As you can see...the boats are heavy...the bow thruster intake is just above the clay lining.

 

They push the botton..it sucks up the clay and spits it out in the direction of the canal sides.

 

They then wonder why they spend the day stuck on the bottom.

 

This is happening...from dawn to dusk...every day...( 100% bookings)..13 boats with another 7 coming on line in future.

 

There is no 'logic' where it will need dredging in winter...as they are randomly 'bow thrusting'.

 

I can't see the canal being usable this time next year...in fact..I can't see it lasting the season!!

[matty40s]

Perhaps CRT should be made aware of this abuse of their navigation, it may well affect newt populations and unsettle the voles.

[craftycarper]

unfortunately the Mon & Brec Canal is so shallow in some places that trying to steer a monster boat with a tiller is almost impossible.

your dead right, my yoghurt pot only has an 18" draught and it constantly rubbed the bottom when I was there, sometimes it would come to a total stop, my friend pulled out of buying a house with a hire boat business on the mon brec , because there were long periods they could,not rent them out due to a lack of water, on occasions having to refund paid up clients, so a very risky place to operate such large boats from,

[DHutch]

Had a quick a look at the site, the 'see fleet' page is poor, but looking at the boat in other areas they look like fairly normal if well fitted out boats, the 'Edwardian-Style' front is a nice touch, but unlikely to effect the under water shape a lot, I doubt the draw more than 2ft/2ft6 at the bow tops.

 

I have never been on that canal, but it appears to have been built to 9ft2 a 3ft depth at the lock, so an 8ft6 boat should be manageable in the long-term, and or be well away from the clay at all times bar perhaps leaving a mooring.

 

Are you sure its puddle clay they moving not just the silt?

 

 

Daniel

[magpie patrick]

The boats may have been about 9 feet by 64 feet but it hasn't been used by craft that big for a century, and the canal is much smaller than a standard narrow canal in many ways: with the trade always light, always horsedrawn and nearly all loaded in one direction only the cross section didn't need to be that big.

 

The bends are quite something as well. To stay on the level for 25 miles in that terrain took some doing.

[Murflynn]

Had a quick a look at the site, the 'see fleet' page is poor, but looking at the boat in other areas they look like fairly normal if well fitted out boats, the 'Edwardian-Style' front is a nice touch, but unlikely to effect the under water shape a lot, I doubt the draw more than 2ft/2ft6 at the bow tops.

 

I have never been on that canal, but it appears to have been built to 9ft2 a 3ft depth at the lock, so an 8ft6 boat should be manageable in the long-term, and or be well away from the clay at all times bar perhaps leaving a mooring.

 

Are you sure its puddle clay they moving not just the silt?

 

 

Daniel

You wouldn't get far with that draft. My long keel inboard yogurt pot only draws 18" and often touches bottom even in the centre of the 'main channel'

your dead right, my yoghurt pot only has an 18" draught and it constantly rubbed the bottom when I was there, sometimes it would come to a total stop, my friend pulled out of buying a house with a hire boat business on the mon brec , because there were long periods they could,not rent them out due to a lack of water, on occasions having to refund paid up clients, so a very risky place to operate such large boats from,

I don't understand the 'lack of water' because it is fed directly from the River Usk. Does the river dry up in a dry summer?

 

I thought the problem was lack of depth. The level is controlled by frequent overflow weirs and when I was on the canal these were flowing, but the depth was inadequate.

[Allan(nb Albert)]

You wouldn't get far with that draft. My long keel inboard yogurt pot only draws 18" and often touches bottom even in the centre of the 'main channel'

I don't understand the 'lack of water' because it is fed directly from the River Usk. Does the river dry up in a dry summer?

 

I thought the problem was lack of depth. The level is controlled by frequent overflow weirs and when I was on the canal these were flowing, but the depth was inadequate.

Three years ago CaRT stated that the Mon & Brec had over 300 known leaks and needed up to £60m spending on it (> £20m just on the worst bits!). The view was that dredging would only increase the problem.

 

Lack of water is a future problem. The Environment Agency have proposed abstraction restrictions from the River Usk that would seriously affect the canal requiring the closure of large sections at peak time on a regular basis.

 

CaRT have suggested to Defra that future serious breaches might result in closures until such time as money was available to carry out repairs.

[Alan Saunders]

Had a quick a look at the site, the 'see fleet' page is poor, but looking at the boat in other areas they look like fairly normal if well fitted out boats, the 'Edwardian-Style' front is a nice touch, but unlikely to effect the under water shape a lot, I doubt the draw more than 2ft/2ft6 at the bow tops.

 

I have never been on that canal, but it appears to have been built to 9ft2 a 3ft depth at the lock, so an 8ft6 boat should be manageable in the long-term, and or be well away from the clay at all times bar perhaps leaving a mooring.

 

Are you sure its puddle clay they moving not just the silt?

 

 

Daniel

I also suspect that it is 'silt', not puddle clay, that the bow-thrusters and propellers are shifting. Generally, the passage of deep-draughted boats maintains a navigable channel but leaves shallow sides except in popular mooring spots. The real problem is that canal banks are eroded by propellers, bow-thrusters and breaking wash.

 

Laurence Hogg's topic suggests a general consensus that hirers want highly specified boats; not a merely an adequate boat like the one that the OP, 'Bobbybass' enjoyed.

 

If CRT had the resources to dredge the Mon & Brec., K&A etc. etc. to their original depth/width there would not be a problem.

 

Alan

[Alan Saunders]

Three years ago CaRT stated that the Mon & Brec had over 300 known leaks and needed up to £60m spending on it (> £20m just on the worst bits!). The view was that dredging would only increase the problem.

 

Lack of water is a future problem. The Environment Agency have proposed abstraction restrictions from the River Usk that would seriously affect the canal requiring the closure of large sections at peak time on a regular basis.

 

CaRT have suggested to Defra that future serious breaches might result in closures until such time as money was available to carry out repairs.

A more informed view than mine and fully supports the OPs stance that the wide beam hire fleet are adding to the problems.

[Ally]

Having lived just below that canal, I remember well the devastation to both the canal, boaters, and the local land community, when it breached near Gilwern a few years back. Anything putting it further at risk of similar breaches should be brought to C&RTs attention. Perhaps they could have an impact on the instruction given by the hire firm to their customers.

[lydfordcastle]

Having lived just below that canal, I remember well the devastation to both the canal, boaters, and the local land community, when it breached near Gilwern a few years back. Anything putting it further at risk of similar breaches should be brought to C&RTs attention. Perhaps they could have an impact on the instruction given by the hire firm to their customers.

Amazing ! This thread has suddenly moved from a completely unsubstantiated theory that "Mega" boats (they are only 18 inches wider than narrow boats) together with their bow thrusters are scraping the puddle clay off the canal bed to hinting at blaming those same boats for the Gilwern breach of 5 or 6 years ago at a time when Beacon boats fleet consisted mostly of narrow boats with only one or perhaps two 'wider' beams. In 2011, having waited nearly two years to take a cruise on this canal but having been delayed by the breach repairs, I finally managed to get aboard at last but I have to say it wasn't the most pleasant of boating experiences. True, the route above Llanfoist is magnificent whilst that below is most certainly not and even though I have 50 years experience on the tiller I found driving a boat on that canal for a week a very stressful experience. As for the local land community I found 'miserable' landlords at at least two of the major pubs/eating houses en-route even being warmly greeted at one having arrived at 8.30 pm with a "hope you're not expecting food at this time"!

In view of the OP's assessment of the state of the infrastructure perhaps now is the time for C&RT to think the unthinkable and to consider whether the continuous drain on it's financial resouces which are completely disproportionate to the income it derives from this short stretch of water is a fair and equitable way of spending nationally collected license fees. I would be sorry if it became no longer available as a cruising route but this sorrow would be tempered with the knowledge that the vast amounts of money previously spent on keeping it open for the benefit of a select few could now be spent on long overdue repairs and maintenance of a cruising system which would benefit the majority of license payers. And if the local land community would be so devastated by closure to cruising (which I doubt) perhaps an appeal to the devolved local government for assistance might bear fruit instead of the continuous drip feed of subsidy from English license payers who are never going to be in a position to feel any benefit from it. Who knows, there may even be a justification for a special 'toll' for cruising this special stretch of canal.

[Allan(nb Albert)]

Amazing ! This thread has suddenly moved from a completely unsubstantiated theory that "Mega" boats (they are only 18 inches wider than narrow boats) together with their bow thrusters are scraping the puddle clay off the canal bed to hinting at blaming those same boats for the Gilwern breach of 5 or 6 years ago at a time when Beacon boats fleet consisted mostly of narrow boats with only one or perhaps two 'wider' beams. In 2011, having waited nearly two years to take a cruise on this canal but having been delayed by the breach repairs, I finally managed to get aboard at last but I have to say it wasn't the most pleasant of boating experiences. True, the route above Llanfoist is magnificent whilst that below is most certainly not and even though I have 50 years experience on the tiller I found driving a boat on that canal for a week a very stressful experience. As for the local land community I found 'miserable' landlords at at least two of the major pubs/eating houses en-route even being warmly greeted at one having arrived at 8.30 pm with a "hope you're not expecting food at this time"!

In view of the OP's assessment of the state of the infrastructure perhaps now is the time for C&RT to think the unthinkable and to consider whether the continuous drain on it's financial resouces which are completely disproportionate to the income it derives from this short stretch of water is a fair and equitable way of spending nationally collected license fees. I would be sorry if it became no longer available as a cruising route but this sorrow would be tempered with the knowledge that the vast amounts of money previously spent on keeping it open for the benefit of a select few could now be spent on long overdue repairs and maintenance of a cruising system which would benefit the majority of license payers. And if the local land community would be so devastated by closure to cruising (which I doubt) perhaps an appeal to the devolved local government for assistance might bear fruit instead of the continuous drip feed of subsidy from English license payers who are never going to be in a position to feel any benefit from it. Who knows, there may even be a justification for a special 'toll' for cruising this special stretch of canal.

Funny you should mention 'tolls'.

 

Twin threat to the Mon & Brec

 

CaRT informed Defra some time back that sections may have to close on H&S grounds until they had the money to sort out the problems.

 

I'm not sure what the current position is with regard to water supply.