How CRT are spending our donations, a prime example of utter waste of money

[Graham Davis]

I was appalled to read this in Allan's article in "Narrowboatworld", if this is true how on earth can these people have any understanding of what they are in charge of funding and what it really was and is?

 

Quote:

"The Trust's ten strong fundraising team is as follows:

Head of fundraising—Ruth Ruderham

Trust fundraising manager—Martha Oddy

Corporate partnerships manager—Wendy Hawk

Corporate partnerships officer—Dominic Papineau

Head of individual giving—Nick Marsh

Senior individual giving officer—Andrew Sarson

Individual giving officer—Silvie Morelli

Individual giving assistant—Fleur Harman

Data analyst—Marytn Colebrook

Supporter engagement manager—Lauren White

None of the above is a boater or appears to have any inland waterways experience."

 

So what?

[cotswoldsman]

 

I was appalled to read this in Allan's article in "Narrowboatworld", if this is true how on earth can these people have any understanding of what they are in charge of funding and what it really was and is?

 

Quote:

"The Trust's ten strong fundraising team is as follows:

Head of fundraisingRuth Ruderham

Trust fundraising managerMartha Oddy

Corporate partnerships managerWendy Hawk

Corporate partnerships officerDominic Papineau

Head of individual givingNick Marsh

Senior individual giving officerAndrew Sarson

Individual giving officerSilvie Morelli

Individual giving assistantFleur Harman

Data analystMarytn Colebrook

Supporter engagement managerLauren White

None of the above is a boater or appears to have any inland waterways experience."

Laurance it's a charity!!! Why do you need boating experience to raise money. Do you think all the fundraisers in OXFAM were sent off to a third world country and starved for 12 months? Edited May 20, 2015 by cotswoldsman

[Laurence Hogg]

Laurance it's a charity!!! Why do you need boating experience to raise money. Do you think all the fundraisers in OXFAM were sent off to a third world country and starved for 12 months?

"Hands on" experience is in my view essential for anyone who is trying to "sell" the organization they are working for.

We experienced this face on with the "chuggers" who didn't even know what canal they were on and were made a laughing stock.

 

And why do they need ten people in so many roles, talk about OTT. How much do their salaries cost per annum compared to what they raise, it would be interesting to know.

 

This reminds me of the BW inspired fiasco called "Canals 200" which kicked off in 1993 and cost a phenomenal amount of money, the only people who benefited from that farce were the suppliers of goods (BCC was one)it did little to encourage outsiders despite hardback books being produced,stars opening events, films, the Gortex challenge walks etc, and it all fizzled out after about 8 years. No legacy to show

[raymondh]

Just looked at the "top one"

 

Seems to have lots of experience for the job she now holds

 

Ruth is head of fundraising at the Canal & River Trust, one of the UK’s largest and newest charities. Ruth has built the charity’s fundraising from scratch since its launch in 2012. This has included developing pioneering new models of face-to-face fundraising and securing partnerships with companies including Marks and Spencer and Google. Prior to joining Canal & River Trust, Ruth was head of fundraising for Christian Aid and has previously worked at Friends of the Earth and Crisis. She was awarded Professional Fundraiser of the Year in 2005.

 

Ruth speaks internationally on fundraising and movement building and is a member of the Institute of Fundraising Convention Board. She is a Trustee of Oxfam GB and Galapagos Conservation Trust, where she chairs the fundraising and communications committee. Ruth is also a writer and her first novel will be published in autumn 2014.

 

Ray

[lexicon]

Ray don't bring such facts into a debate.

Its obvious that if any member of crt staff doesn't own a historic working boat they should not be involved with anything

[Allan(nb Albert)]

Just looked at the "top one"

 

Seems to have lots of experience for the job she now holds

 

Ruth is head of fundraising at the Canal & River Trust, one of the UK’s largest and newest charities. Ruth has built the charity’s fundraising from scratch since its launch in 2012. This has included developing pioneering new models of face-to-face fundraising and securing partnerships with companies including Marks and Spencer and Google. Prior to joining Canal & River Trust, Ruth was head of fundraising for Christian Aid and has previously worked at Friends of the Earth and Crisis. She was awarded Professional Fundraiser of the Year in 2005.

 

Ruth speaks internationally on fundraising and movement building and is a member of the Institute of Fundraising Convention Board. She is a Trustee of Oxfam GB and Galapagos Conservation Trust, where she chairs the fundraising and communications committee. Ruth is also a writer and her first novel will be published in autumn 2014.

 

Ray

I tend to judge on what an organisation sets out to achieve and how it performs against that. Unfortunately, Ruth's face-to-face fundraising model was a complete and utter disaster with one chugging company going bust and another refusing to work with CaRT. It is probable that Daniel Charles, her individual fundraising manager was held responsible. Some on this forum may remember Daniel as the man who was sending out the 'begging emails' Christmas before last.

 

The new model which employs chuggers direct works better in terms of recruitment but may incur extra costs.

CaRT appears to have two long term objectives regarding fundraising. 100,000 recruited and retained donors by year ten (2021/22) and £7m pa contribution by year ten (the £7m includes a prudence factor as it assumes 88,000 donors).

 

Against its financial plan it is performing badly but we await figures for last year. Last year they were spending £2 for every £1 raised and lost £900,000 against a projected loss of £400,000

 

Regarding number of friends, the figure that will appear in the annual report will be about 9,750, which means that CaRT are only recruiting and retaining about a third of the number targeted.

 

Anybody who has taken the interest to read CaRT's ten year strategy will see that CaRT have quietly slipped the '100,000 recruited and retained donors by year ten' aspiration by three years to 2025 ...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[jenlyn]

They don't seem to be doing to badly on the whole

 

http://www.canaljunction.com/news/crt-stunning-year-financially-plus-involvement/2104

[Laurence Hogg]

I find the fundraising side to be a joke. When you consider that all the licence payers, business's renting land, mooring income which is coming in is funding CRT how on earth are you going to match that income volume with "extra users" such as they are targeting.

Encouraging towpath users to get involved with watching bats and bugs, picking up litter and riding bikes will not generate a penny, these users have been walking the towpath for years free of charge.

 

What they need to concentrate on is regenerating the interest in being on the canal, owning a boat and being a major contributor via licence and possibly mooring fees to fund CRT.

Lets face it you could easily get £3000 a year off one boat alone, how many towpath muggers do you need to raise that much?

 

By encouraging the boating and associated trade to develop you are encouraging interest in the key infrastructure and the business which keeps it running, this will expand in years to come as restorations get finished and more miles added, yet with CRT they seem never to consider this aspect.

 

OK it sounds good to have Marks & Spencer, Google and a few others as "partners" but what do they actually bring to the table?

 

Maybe they should be helping promote hire boat firms, boatbuilders and fitters and driving to get more people on the waterways, ultimately that will bring in serious income or would they rather have a photo-shoot "one off" with Google?

 

Get rid of 9 of the fundraisers, let Ruth do all the work and use the other people to promote the industry and future waterways that could make CRT a more viable future.

That means 9 sacked and nine knowledgeable people brought on board.

 

Many people on here will not realize how much the trade as contracted but back in the early 1990's around 15 -20 new boats a week hit the water and we as Boatmans Cabin used to cast and sell into the trade around 60 - 70 chimney collars a month. This year how many new boats will be built? Very few compared to those days, CRT need to look back.

Edited May 20, 2015 by Laurence Hogg

[pete.i]

I do agree with a lot of you are saying Laurence. I keep saying that C&RT don't like boats. I get the impression that they they think boats and boaters are a necessary nuisance. They cannot just throw the, percieved, bad pennies off the canals because that would cause a housing crisis in some regions and they cannot get rid of the rest of us because we pay a huge portion of C&RT's income in licence, mooring and other fees. I do get the impression that if The Canal and River Trust could get rid of boaters they would in the blink of an eye. This is just the impression that I am getting from C&RT and I have absolutely no proof or even examples to quote but as I say it is the impression they give to me and I am sure that others are thinking the same way.

[Allan(nb Albert)]

They don't seem to be doing to badly on the whole

 

http://www.canaljunction.com/news/crt-stunning-year-financially-plus-involvement/2104

This year, CaRT's government grant has increased from £39m to £50m yet it is spending less on maintaining its waterways.

 

Its latest three year plan shows its expected combined gross income for the three years 2014/15,2015/16 and 2016/17 will fall against its previous plan by £58m.

 

 

[cotswoldsman]

Laurance you are coming over as anti CRT for the sake of it. I have no problem with CRT being held to account and for that matter being challenged on certain matters. I think your knowledge of Fundraising is zero. I have worked with Ruth and her team on a number of projects and what you do not seem to realise is fundraising is about a lot more than just Friends. I was at a meeting recently with Ruth that involved getting people to donate and not one asked anything to do with boats etc. "Barnet" was not mentioned once nor were any other old boaters. Do you think for example the £500,000 plus that was donated by People's Lottery just turned up at the door one day?

I can assure you companies are involved in financial support of CRT and they do not just turn up at the door in Milton Keynes and say "where do I send the cheque"

[NBDensie]

I do agree with a lot of you are saying Laurence. I keep saying that C&RT don't like boats. I get the impression that they they think boats and boaters are a necessary nuisance. They cannot just throw the, percieved, bad pennies off the canals because that would cause a housing crisis in some regions and they cannot get rid of the rest of us because we pay a huge portion of C&RT's income in licence, mooring and other fees. I do get the impression that if The Canal and River Trust could get rid of boaters they would in the blink of an eye. This is just the impression that I am getting from C&RT and I have absolutely no proof or even examples to quote but as I say it is the impression they give to me and I am sure that others are thinking the same way.

 

I suspect most boaters havent "got it". Boaters dont pay a huge portion of C&RT's income, not huge as a % of C&RTs needs. Boaters would simply not be prepared to pay a "fair" rate for what they get. That is why C&RT must get major income from elsewhere. That can only come from the general public either pay directly or, with their support, on their behalf. For example by government grants, lottery funding , corporate donations, legacies etc etc. Boaters are already convinced that the canals are worth saving and are prepared to pay some of the costs. But for C&RT to succeed it must get a strong body of support from the general public, and it wont get it if boating is seen as a subsidised privilege for the few.

 

That is why to my mind C&RT must focus its message on those areas most likely to get mass support. Boaters already get what they want simply from the fact that C&RT is ensuring that the canals are staying open.

[gaggle]

One of those is overnight restrictions due to vandalism.

Often no water in the poolstock pool in times past , not down to vandalism in the past it has been said on herew

[Laurence Hogg]

Laurance you are coming over as anti CRT for the sake of it. I have no problem with CRT being held to account and for that matter being challenged on certain matters. I think your knowledge of Fundraising is zero. I have worked with Ruth and her team on a number of projects and what you do not seem to realise is fundraising is about a lot more than just Friends. I was at a meeting recently with Ruth that involved getting people to donate and not one asked anything to do with boats etc. "Barnet" was not mentioned once nor were any other old boaters. Do you think for example the £500,000 plus that was donated by People's Lottery just turned up at the door one day?

I can assure you companies are involved in financial support of CRT and they do not just turn up at the door in Milton Keynes and say "where do I send the cheque"

 

Yes maybe I am sick of CRT and want to see them gone, sadly that wont happen atm. What I don't like is how they treat the boating trade, they are not promoting the trade properly at all as far as I can see, but there again that's just a BW trait following through. Have a look how expensive it is to hire a boat and work out why its so expensive, hiring is one of the best ways to get people onboard yet CRT are crucifying the operators with their charges whereas they should be doing otherwise.

[NBDensie]

 

Yes maybe I am sick of CRT and want to see them gone, sadly that wont happen atm. What I don't like is how they treat the boating trade, they are not promoting the trade properly at all as far as I can see, but there again that's just a BW trait following through. Have a look how expensive it is to hire a boat and work out why its so expensive, hiring is one of the best ways to get people onboard yet CRT are crucifying the operators with their charges whereas they should be doing otherwise.

 

You are not helping your case by your wild attacks on CRT and all its works. Is hiring a boat any more expensive now than it was with BW? Wouldnt it be better to put down some actual numbers and discuss the issues rationally?

[Graham Davis]

 

Yes maybe I am sick of CRT and want to see them gone, sadly that wont happen atm. What I don't like is how they treat the boating trade, they are not promoting the trade properly at all as far as I can see, but there again that's just a BW trait following through. Have a look how expensive it is to hire a boat and work out why its so expensive, hiring is one of the best ways to get people onboard yet CRT are crucifying the operators with their charges whereas they should be doing otherwise.

 

Sorry Laurence, but you are coming across as having a huge chip on your shoulder about CaRT and that is affecting your view and your arguments. Yes hire boats are expensive, but I suspect the cost is more down to build costs, insurance, maintenance and marketing than CaRT.

I think you need to take a step backwards and look at things without your bitterness.

Edited May 20, 2015 by Graham Davis

[Sabcat]

Many people on here will not realize how much the trade as contracted but back in the early 1990's around 15 -20 new boats a week hit the water and we as Boatmans Cabin used to cast and sell into the trade around 60 - 70 chimney collars a month. This year how many new boats will be built? Very few compared to those days, CRT need to look back.

 

A lot of boats from the mid - late 90's until around 2007/8 were funded by equity release from housing. The contraction in that market is nothing to do with CRT. Whether it comes back or not has got little to do with CRT. The wider economy and a couple of TV programmes showing how great a place the cut is might do that.

 

I'm not sure how this fits in with your previous threads about ANPR cameras though. I guess it's only the right sort of people you want to see on the cut?

[Laurence Hogg]

 

You are not helping your case by your wild attacks on CRT and all its works. Is hiring a boat any more expensive now than it was with BW? Wouldnt it be better to put down some actual numbers and discuss the issues rationally?

 

These are not wild attacks on CRT just the truth as I see it. After 40 odd years in the boating trade I see no promotion forthcoming from CRT when that is an area that could generate serious income and interest.

[Ray T]

 

 

Many people on here will not realize how much the trade as contracted but back in the early 1990's around 15 -20 new boats a week hit the water and we as Boatmans Cabin used to cast and sell into the trade around 60 - 70 chimney collars a month. This year how many new boats will be built? Very few compared to those days, CRT need to look back.

 

 

This in not a "Bash Laurence Hogg" post, but Laurence, you can hardly lay the decline in new boats built on CRT when we as a nation are still in recession. There are many boat builders who have ceased trading because people are not buying new boats as many older people see their disposable income being eroded.This situation is not helped by the sad demise of Steve Hudson. Many younger folks have had their pay frozen for years and have to watch the pennies to live day to day.

 

Again many older people who may have bought a boat now see their hard earned savings earning a measly 1/4 of 1%. Is this CRT's fault?

 

The rise in the cost of rental properties hardly helps.

Edited May 20, 2015 by Ray T

[cotswoldsman]

 

 

This in not a "Bash Laurence Hogg" post but Laurence you can hardly lay the decline in new boats built on CRT when we as a nation are still in recession. There are many boat builders who have ceased trading because people are not buying new boats as many older people see their disposable income being eroded.This situation is not helped by the sad demise of Steve Hudson. Many younger folks have had their pay frozen for years and have to watch the pennies to live day to day.

 

Again many older people who may have bought a boat now see their hard earned savings earning a measly 1/4 of 1%. Is this CRT's fault?

 

The rise in the cost of rental properties hardly helps.

That is reflected in the fact that the second hand market is very buoyant

[Laurence Hogg]

 

 

This in not a "Bash Laurence Hogg" post, but Laurence, you can hardly lay the decline in new boats built on CRT when we as a nation are still in recession. There are many boat builders who have ceased trading because people are not buying new boats as many older people see their disposable income being eroded.This situation is not helped by the sad demise of Steve Hudson. Many younger folks have had their pay frozen for years and have to watch the pennies to live day to day.

 

Again many older people who may have bought a boat now see their hard earned savings earning a measly 1/4 of 1%. Is this CRT's fault?

 

The rise in the cost of rental properties hardly helps.

 

I am not laying the decline of new build at CRT's feet at all. I know only too well how the latest recession hit the boatbuilders, I am still in daily contact with much of the trade that I worked with. What I am trying to get across is that CRT ought to help its own connected traders, yards, boatbuilders etc and encourage people to buy boats and get on the water, something they seem not able to consider. We probably need another "Waterworld" series as this really did impact on boat sales when first aired some years ago.

[NBDensie]

My non scientific observation is that there has been a significant change in the market for new boats. In the old days they were largely built for people with money and an interest in traditional boats and boating. Now many boats are bought as floating homes often for a downsizing life in a marina. So very non traditional widebeams seem to have been selling well rather than boats designed with a nod to history. Has the bespoke boat building industry kept up with this change?

[adam1uk]

My non scientific observation is that there has been a significant change in the market for new boats. In the old days they were largely built for people with money and an interest in traditional boats and boating. Now many boats are bought as floating homes often for a downsizing life in a marina. So very non traditional widebeams seem to have been selling well rather than boats designed with a nod to history. Has the bespoke boat building industry kept up with this change?

It's certainly true that many builders are selling more widebeams than narrowboats, and many of them are floating homes which won't go very far.

 

But lots of builders will also tell you that the business goes up and down with the housing market -- and that's been pretty sluggish over the past few years. But it's also weather dependent -- a nice summer leads to more orders for boats that autumn.

[dogless]

Perhaps if all interested parties matched actions with words and signed up as 'friends of C&RT' we could meaningfully increase financing to maintainance projects overnight. Just a thought.....I know where my sympathies lie

Regards

Rog

[Starcoaster]

 

Encouraging towpath users to get involved with watching bats and bugs, picking up litter and riding bikes will not generate a penny, these users have been walking the towpath for years free of charge.

 

What they need to concentrate on is regenerating the interest in being on the canal, owning a boat and being a major contributor via licence and possibly mooring fees to fund CRT.

Lets face it you could easily get £3000 a year off one boat alone, how many towpath muggers do you need to raise that much?

 

By encouraging the boating and associated trade to develop you are encouraging interest in the key infrastructure and the business which keeps it running, this will expand in years to come as restorations get finished and more miles added, yet with CRT they seem never to consider this aspect.

 

OK it sounds good to have Marks & Spencer, Google and a few others as "partners" but what do they actually bring to the table?

 

Maybe they should be helping promote hire boat firms, boatbuilders and fitters and driving to get more people on the waterways, ultimately that will bring in serious income or would they rather have a photo-shoot "one off" with Google?

 

 

 

I really agree with what you have said here, and I think you have put it very well.

But to be honest I almost didn't even open this thread, because I have seen you post so many of late, often with shouty all-capital headers, always bashing CRT with inflammatory titles and a lot of bluster, in which your valid points get lost.

I'm sorry but I feel it is worth saying, without meaning to cause offence for the sake of it.

Edited May 20, 2015 by Starcoaster