Installing gas on a gas-free boat

[Adelka]

Hello wise ones. The title says it all really - we are considering making an offer on a gas-free boat, but we would like to install gas for the cooker. It currently has a diesel oven which fires ceramic hobs ("very expensive" according to the owner) but the oven is tiny and hobs take an age to heat up. The owner gave the game away by showing us the camping stove he cooks on.

 

So, with a reverse layout and so the kitchen far from the gas locker, how much of a pain-in-the-bum and hole-in-the-pocket would it be to install gas just for cooking?

[Phil Ambrose]

I'm in no way qualified but I would have thought that it would not be a huge task to run the gas pipe under the gunnel, a through bulkhead fitting to take the pipi outside, job done so far but the dodgy bit is...have you room for a gas locker or does one already exist?

Phil

[Alan de Enfield]

If you are a liveaboard, just remember that there are a different set of rules/qualifications needed for gas installers to those that can 'do' leisure boats.

[Adelka]

Yep, I would also imagine that it'd be a huge job. Just hoping to hear from someone who might have done this or considered it, and backed off.

 

I'm a liveaboard and yes, there's a gas locker.

 

Alan: I wonder if you know how to find a gas installer with the right qualifications?

 

Thanks all.

[Murflynn]

the gas locker doesn't have to be in the bow. If it is a cruiser stern for example you can have a locker/seat on the stern deck.

[alan_fincher]

There was exactly this question raised and discussed at length in another recent thread, and I thought it should be easy to locate it and link to it here.

 

However at the moment I've failed that test - can anybody else find it, please?

[Alan de Enfield]

Yep, I would also imagine that it'd be a huge job. Just hoping to hear from someone who might have done this or considered it, and backed off.

 

I'm a liveaboard and yes, there's a gas locker.

 

Alan: I wonder if you know how to find a gas installer with the right qualifications?

 

Thanks all.

 

You need to find someone who has 'Boats' on his 'ticket' and is qualified to "The Gas Safety (Installation and Use) Regulations 1998" (GSIUR)

 

There are quite a few about and advertise in the 'boaty' magazines.

 

A quick google gave several companies in London registered to work on liveaboard boats - just one example (I have no knowledge of the company, or connection to it) :

 

N4 Gas Ltd

15 Granville Road,

London. N4 4EJ

 

Phone:

0208 348 4729

 

Your home is fixed. But people use gas on boats, caravans and just on the street in the form of BBQ’s – All of these different locations pose different threats, risks and have all been split into their own categories.

With all this in mind, it’s incredibly important that you get the right engineer for the job. We are one of the only companies in London that offer a full compliment of skilled gas engineers that can work on pretty much everything.

Edited May 5, 2015 by Alan de Enfield

[mrsmelly]

Hello wise ones. The title says it all really - we are considering making an offer on a gas-free boat, but we would like to install gas for the cooker. It currently has a diesel oven which fires ceramic hobs ("very expensive" according to the owner) but the oven is tiny and hobs take an age to heat up. The owner gave the game away by showing us the camping stove he cooks on.

 

So, with a reverse layout and so the kitchen far from the gas locker, how much of a pain-in-the-bum and hole-in-the-pocket would it be to install gas just for cooking?

 

It is far from impossible. Providing the fitout allows all you need to do is run the gas pipe from the locker wherever it is and you state in the bow so from the pointy end through a hole in the front steel bulkhead and along and under the gunwhale to the appliance. No unecesary joints and in your case a straight run should be possible. If there is an extensive fitout in the boat the running of the pipe will be harder but certainly not impossible. As for legislation it is not arduos or hard to comply with. In my opinion as soon as you have fitted the gas stove you will have raised the boats value by the amount spent and without doubt made it far more saleable in the future.

 

Tim

[Adelka]

Thanks Alan.

 

Tim, that's my impression also, except there are two cabins and a bathroom between the gas locker and the galley, though we could make a gas locker on the cruiser stern, as suggested above.

[MtB]

 

It is far from impossible. Providing the fitout allows all you need to do is run the gas pipe from the locker wherever it is and you state in the bow so from the pointy end through a hole in the front steel bulkhead and along and under the gunwhale to the appliance. No unecesary joints and in your case a straight run should be possible. If there is an extensive fitout in the boat the running of the pipe will be harder but certainly not impossible. As for legislation it is not arduos or hard to comply with. In my opinion as soon as you have fitted the gas stove you will have raised the boats value by the amount spent and without doubt made it far more saleable in the future.

 

Tim

 

 

What locker would that be then Tim, on a boat built as gas-free?

 

The pipework is a small part of the story. Constructing the gas locker and purchasing the gas appliance(s) would be the major cost involved. If both those already exist then I agree, installing the gas pipework is not that big a deal.

[kevinl]

 

 

What locker would that be then Tim, on a boat built as gas-free?

The locker Adelka mentions in post No.4 "I'm a liveaboard and yes, there's a gas locker. "

K

[MtB]

Ah ok, I missed that. My apologies to Tim.

 

 

MtB

[David Mack]

As for legislation it is not arduos or hard to comply with.

 

As long as this is not a petrol-engined boat.

[blackrose]

Yep, I would also imagine that it'd be a huge job. Just hoping to hear from someone who might have done this or considered it, and backed off.

 

I'm a liveaboard and yes, there's a gas locker.

 

Alan: I wonder if you know how to find a gas installer with the right qualifications?

 

Thanks all.

I installed my own gas system with no previous experience and its not that difficult. It's just plumbing after all. Install a bubble tester in the gas locker and you can test the system before use.

 

Look at the BSS essential guide for regs on things like spacing of pipe supports, and the Calor tables to determine pipe diameter based on total kW output of appliances and length of pipe run. The main thing is to make sure it's safe.

[MtB]

I installed my own gas system with no previous experience and its not that difficult. It's just plumbing after all. Install a bubble tester in the gas locker and you can test the system before use.

 

Look at the BSS essential guide for regs on things like spacing of pipe supports, and the Calor tables to determine pipe diameter based on total kW output of appliances and length of pipe run. The main thing is to make sure it's safe.

 

 

No it isn't. There is ventilation to consider, and flueing too. Both arguably more critical than screwing the pipe joints together without leaks.

[W+T]

Its easy, i would say to defo get a BSS file and do it to that and you will be fine. Lockers are easy to make, ply and GRP liner or steel, just needs drain hole at bottom level etc etc, pipe fitted correctly and bulkhead fitting used. Can be ass cheap or expensive as you want.

[bottle]

Can also be as safe or not safe as you want.

Edited May 5, 2015 by bottle

[blackrose]

 

 

No it isn't. There is ventilation to consider, and flueing too. Both arguably more critical than screwing the pipe joints together without leaks.

Flueing of a gas cooker? Please elaborate? (The OP said he wanted to install a gas cooker?)

 

As for ventilation that's simple to calculate too. It's ALL in the BSS Essential Guide 2nd edition which is freely available online. As I said, it's easy if you read the literature and follow the regs.

 

I did all of this myself without any previous experience so it can't be that difficult. It's all been checked by several BSS inspectors over the years, one of whom told me it was the best gas installation he'd seen in some time.

 

However, if you're one of those negative people who insist on everything being difficult then that option is also available.

 

Its easy, i would say to defo get a BSS file and do it to that and you will be fine. Lockers are easy to make, ply and GRP liner or steel, just needs drain hole at bottom level etc etc, pipe fitted correctly and bulkhead fitting used. Can be ass cheap or expensive as you want.

I thought the OP said he already had a gas locker?

Edited May 5, 2015 by blackrose

[MtB]

I was taking issue with your statement "It's just plumbing after all", for the benefit of anyone reading the thread considering installing their gas system. This is what you said, which is simply wrong.

 

"I installed my own gas system with no previous experience and its not that difficult. It's just plumbing after all."

 

Some appliances are flueless (e.g. a cooker), others have flues. Or are you going to quibble about that too?

[Alan Saunders]

I installed my own gas system with no previous experience and its not that difficult. It's just plumbing after all. Install a bubble tester in the gas locker and you can test the system before use.

 

Look at the BSS essential guide for regs on things like spacing of pipe supports, and the Calor tables to determine pipe diameter based on total kW output of appliances and length of pipe run. The main thing is to make sure it's safe.

 

No it isn't. There is ventilation to consider, and flueing too. Both arguably more critical than screwing the pipe joints together without leaks.

 

Its easy, i would say to defo get a BSS file and do it to that and you will be fine. Lockers are easy to make, ply and GRP liner or steel, just needs drain hole at bottom level etc etc, pipe fitted correctly and bulkhead fitting used. Can be ass cheap or expensive as you want.

It all depends on the 'competence' and experience of the amateur installer. I am confident that I can read, understand and comply with 'standards'. My mis-spent youth, Technical School and DIY experience taught me car maintenance (re-conned my father's Ford 100E Popular engine and built a bespoke kitchen aged ~16). OTOH, I am now out of date with current regulations and it takes me hours of study to ensure that any work I do on my boat will comply.

 

We do not know the abilities or aptitude of any poster here on CWDF.

e.g. On arrival at my University 'house' 50 years ago a neighbour asked me to wire a 240V AC plug for him - he was a brilliant English Lit. student but basic, mechanical skills totally eluded him. I blame it on our Education System.

 

I have yet to find a 'qualified professional' capable of installing gas or electrics legally in a house, let alone a boat. The best the average person can do is to consult the relevant regulations and ask questions. I would trust a gas or electric (12V/24V or 240V AC) that I installed far more than any 'professional' installer. OTOH, I depend on liquid gas-leak-detector solutions but every Surveyor and BSS Inspector will have an expensive 'gas sniffer' and a 'water manometer'.

 

Alan

[mrsmelly]

 

 

What locker would that be then Tim, on a boat built as gas-free?

 

The pipework is a small part of the story. Constructing the gas locker and purchasing the gas appliance(s) would be the major cost involved. If both those already exist then I agree, installing the gas pipework is not that big a deal.

 

I read the ops post as the boat having a kitchen at the back being the opposite end to his gas locker? Even if there aint one they dont cost much to put on a boat I had two put on the arse of a boat a few years ago. I must have missread the first post. Its still nowt of a job.

 

Tim

 

Ahh edit to say just looked back at posts.............no probs Mike.

 

Tim

Edited May 5, 2015 by mrsmelly

[blackrose]

I was taking issue with your statement "It's just plumbing after all", for the benefit of anyone reading the thread considering installing their gas system. This is what you said, which is simply wrong.

 

"I installed my own gas system with no previous experience and its not that difficult. It's just plumbing after all."

 

Some appliances are flueless (e.g. a cooker), others have flues. Or are you going to quibble about that too?

No, I'm not going to quibble about that Mike because you're clearly wrong and I'll leave the quibbling to you. Since you're being so pedantic (as usual) about what is written, I suggest you read the original post. He said he wanted to install a gas cooker and they are generally flueless.

 

I also stand by what I said. The fact that you have to consider ventilation and other safety aspects when installing a gas system doesn't stop it essentially being plumbing.

Edited May 6, 2015 by blackrose

[MtB]

But you changed the subject to your own gas system, which includes an instantaneous water heater IIRC.

 

I knew you wouldn't be able to resist quibbling. And I bet you can't resist responding with more!

[blackrose]

But you changed the subject to your own gas system, which includes an instantaneous water heater IIRC.

 

I knew you wouldn't be able to resist quibbling. And I bet you can't resist responding with more!

And I knew you wouldn't be able to resist quibbling either...

 

I don't think I mentioned my water heater did i? It's you who's changing the subject. The OP wants to install a gas cooker (for the 3rd time!)

Edited May 6, 2015 by blackrose

[Alan de Enfield]

I Have just had a BSS completed on a Sea-going boat and it seems that the ventilation issue is 'ignored' by the surveyor.

 

The "minimum ventilation required" figure (for the appliances on board) was 24,360 mm²

"Ventilation installed" shows no figures and just a written comment "Sea Boat"

 

Maybe its OK to 'gas' yourself on Inland waterways if your boat is capable of going to Sea.