CRT advice to stop feeding ducks bread

[Jerra]

So what about a few corn flakes? They float, you get loads in a box, they're made of corn which is good for birds isn't it? Is that an approved snack?

 

I just can't see me buying bags of frozen peas, where would you keep them all?

Rolled oats (porridge oats) would probably be better. I am sure there is a commercial opening for the boat traders here. A quick google shows you can buy wheat by the 20KG bag for £13.71 (first price I came across it may be cheaper or more expensive elsewhere), That is 44 pounds. Even if the bag was £22 that works out at 50p per half pound. Sell it at £1 per bag at least 50p profit per bag.

 

Wheat is the grain used by the wildfowl and wetlands trust to feed the waterfowl at places like Slimbridge during winter so must be OK

[DaveC]

If you want to see healthy ducks that eat loads of bread then visit Hungerford, where, I'm told, the ducks are the noisiest in England!

 

Dave

[Zayna]

I was going to suggest porridge oats.

 

I enjoy feeding the ducks and swans. So does my little nephew. We only ever eat wholemeal bread so they never get white bread but it's nice to have something in the cupboard for the visitors.

[Athy]

.

 

Wheat is the grain used by the wildfowl and wetlands trust to feed the waterfowl at places like Slimbridge during winter so must be OK

Puzzlingly, it's also the principal ingredient of most bread. So bread should be OK too!

[Jerra]

Puzzlingly, it's also the principal ingredient of most bread. So bread should be OK too!

Wheat as in whole grain contains much more than the part used to make white flour. It also doesn't contain the bleaching agents,emulsifiers and all the other things used in modern white bread making.

 

I make all our own bread so I can't read a label to give you a definitive list but have a look sometime and I think you will realise there is a lot more than just wheat in white bread. (Artisan White bread will probably only contain flour, water yeast salt and some form of fat)

 

A quick google gave this example. N.B I have missed out water as I think most people realise there will be some in there.

 

Wheat Flour,High Fructose Corn Syrup, Wheat Gluten,Soya Bean Oil,Salt,Yeast, Molasses, Mono & Diglycerides, Sugar, Yeast Nutrient, (Mono calcium phosphate Ammonium sulphate Calcium proportionate) soya Lecithin.

 

Not quite the same as raw untreated wheat I think you might agree.

[tree monkey]

Puzzlingly, it's also the principal ingredient of most bread. So bread should be OK too!

as a guess, i would suggest oats/wheat in their pure form, either rolled or not are more concentrated than modern white bread, so less filling more nutrient?

[Paul C]

as a guess, i would suggest oats/wheat in their pure form, either rolled or not are more concentrated than modern white bread, so less filling more nutrient?

 

What do you mean by "more concentrated"?

[tree monkey]

 

What do you mean by "more concentrated"?

by volume there will be more nutrients than in white bread, seem logical to me but i am happy to be told otherwise

[Paul C]

by volume there will be more nutrients than in white bread, seem logical to me but i am happy to be told otherwise

 

Ok you got me, I've never done animal nutrition analysis by volume of food! The two in common use is dry matter basis (because all food contains water, and it doesn't contain any protein or minerals; and its energy is 0); and total weight, because when you fill a feed mixer that's what the display is in. Whilst I'm vaguely aware of the density of common feeds, I'd have never thought of converting energy/protein/macrominerals etc to values per unit volume as a comparison.

 

PS on dry matter basis, breadmeal is typically 14MJ/kg and wheat is typically 13.6MJ/kg for the wheat grain; if you include the straw too, ie wholecrop wheat, its approx 10.6MJ/kg.

[tree monkey]

 

Ok you got me, I've never done animal nutrition analysis by volume of food! The two in common use is dry matter basis (because all food contains water, and it doesn't contain any protein or minerals; and its energy is 0); and total weight, because when you fill a feed mixer that's what the display is in. Whilst I'm vaguely aware of the density of common feeds, I'd have never thought of converting energy/protein/macrominerals etc to values per unit volume as a comparison.

 

PS on dry matter basis, breadmeal is typically 14MJ/kg and wheat is typically 13.6MJ/kg for the wheat grain; if you include the straw too, ie wholecrop wheat, its approx 10.6MJ/kg.

considering what you do i would expect you would know more about this than me, i was just thinking about the bread making process which in effect takes a flour and turns it into bread via the use of yeast, this introduces volume into the product without adding anything much, OK it plays about with starch but i was more considering the volume increase over the original product.

add to that breads ability to absorb water and i would suggest you have a high volume low nutrient food compared to the base product, which will have the effect of filling the little ducks tummy before its nutritional needs are met.

or have i got that completely wrong?

[Paul C]

I don't think the density of feeds is significant in affecting feed intake because the first thing an animal does is chews the food, thus low density feeds which have pockets of gas (eg CO2 in bread) would soon be broken down in its macrostructure to something more like "soup" or "goo". The things which primarily affect feed intake are palatability (which is a strong function of protein content) and to a much lesser extent, mineral ratios.

[Athy]

 

 

 

 

Not quite the same as raw untreated wheat I think you might agree.

I do indeed agree and thank you for this information. Not sure if such things as yeast and molasses are good or bad for birds, though.

[Jerra]

I don't think the density of feeds is significant in affecting feed intake because the first thing an animal does is chews the food, thus low density feeds which have pockets of gas (eg CO2 in bread) would soon be broken down in its macrostructure to something more like "soup" or "goo". The things which primarily affect feed intake are palatability (which is a strong function of protein content) and to a much lesser extent, mineral ratios.

Given a birds digestion do you think a full crop is likely to have any influence on food intake given the food isn't "chewed" until it gets to the gizzard?

I do indeed agree and thank you for this information. Not sure if such things as yeast and molasses are good or bad for birds, though.

I was thinking as much of all the added chemicals refined oddities like soya oil and palm sugar which aren't natural to a wild birds diet.

[Paul C]

I do indeed agree and thank you for this information. Not sure if such things as yeast and molasses are good or bad for birds, though.

 

Firstly, you'd have to define what you mean by "good" or "bad", apart from the obvious if something were a toxin.

 

Given a birds digestion do you think a full crop is likely to have any influence on food intake given the food isn't "chewed" until it gets to the gizzard?

 

No

[Jerra]

No

Interesting. So you think (know?) that the sensation of having its crop full doesn't stop the bird from eating.

 

My thinking was most of us stop eating when we have our stomachs full and as you say the gas in the food (such as bread) has been released by chewing. A bird on the other hand fills the crop where the bread is still bulked up by the trapped gases, then it passes to the gizzard to be ground up by the stones.

 

So there is no feeling of fullness created by the crop and the bird will just keep eating. I haven't come across that can you suggest any books I should be reading?

 

I find the concept fascinating, how does a birds body trigger an end to eating? It can't be the stomach as a birds stomach doesn't hold any material for long and I doubt it is the gizzard because in times of glut e.g. when being fed large amounts of bread the crop must fill faster than the gizzard processes food.

 

I really would be grateful for any references you can provide.

[Athy]

 

Firstly, you'd have to define what you mean by "good" or "bad".

 

 

 

I think these are simple terms which most people have no difficulty in understanding. What is puzzling you?

[Cruising Mike]

To quote from the daily express article

 

"BRITONS love feeding ducks so much we throw six million loaves of bread each year into our waterways enough to fill 240 double-decker buses."

 

What I would like to know is since when was the "double decker bus" a standard unit of volume! what is wrong with a cubic metre.

 

Is it an old or a new routemaster I wonder, this could make an immense difference ... and while I am on my soap box why do the papers always use a football pitch as a unit of area ...what is wrong with a acre or a hectare!

 

Sorry ... rant over ... I'll climb down off my soap box now!

It's a way of giving the simple minded people an I deal of measurement. Most people can relate to the size of a football pitch or a bus compared to a cubic metre

[dor]

When I was fitting out my boat I used to sit outside eating my sandwich. This of course attracted the ever-optimistic local ducks. I started bringing them bird seed and noticed they would go for the sunflower seeds first so I started bring just that. They loved it, real quack cocaine.

[bassplayer]

Do ducks like chicken soup?

[Geordie Jas]

When I was fitting out my boat I used to sit outside eating my sandwich. This of course attracted the ever-optimistic local ducks. I started bringing them bird seed and noticed they would go for the sunflower seeds first so I started bring just that. They loved it, real quack cocaine.

 

Feckin' dealers everywhere!

 

Jas

[Maffi]

Ducks are wild creatures they will feed themselves. We should only intervene in times of severe weather.

 

However two impregnated females could produce through their off spring 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 ducks in the course of thirty years so it is probably just as well a few get killed off buy pike, fox, and bread.

[DaveC]

 

 

However two impregnated females could produce through their off spring 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 ducks in the course of thirty years so it is probably just as well a few get killed off buy pike, fox, and bread.

 

If it wasn't for the pike, fox and bread there would not be enough bank for a quintillion of ducks so they would all have to be CCs (that could be continuous cwackers!)

 

Dave

[johnthebridge]

Anyone read yesterday's (Saturday's) Grauniad? Advert. on P35 in the magazine. CART are now apparently giving away, free, bags of special, non-breaded, duck food!

Mind, you can't just go to canalrivertrust.org.uk/ducks and have some sent.

In the online application, you are asked to give them your name and telephone number and then CART will call you to arrange delivery. In calling you, not only will they will tell you what CART are all about but, if you then agree to having some free duck food, you will also agree to CART disclosing your details to third parties. I wonder how much this little scheme is costing?

Edited April 5, 2015 by johnthebridge

[Theo]

To quote from the daily express article

 

"BRITONS love feeding ducks so much we throw six million loaves of bread each year into our waterways – enough to fill [/size]240 double-decker buses.[/size]"[/size]

 

What I would like to know is since when was the "double decker bus" a standard unit of volume! what is wrong with a cubic metre.[/size]

 

 

 

Is it an old or a new routemaster I wonder, this could make an immense difference ... and while I am on my soap box why do the papers always use a football pitch as a unit of area ...what is wrong with a acre or a hectare![/size]

 

Sorry ... rant over ... I'll climb down off my soap box now!

What's wrong with Wales as a unit of area?

 

While on the subject of units I would like to draw attention to the SI unit the milliHelen (mHe). It is defined as the amount of beauty required to launch one ship.

 

Nick

[Murflynn]

Anyone read yesterday's (Saturday's) Grauniad? Advert. on P35 in the magazine. CART are now apparently giving away, free, bags of special, non-breaded, duck food!

Mind, you can't just go to canalrivertrust.org.uk/ducks and have some sent.

In the online application, you are asked to give them your name and telephone number and then CART will call you to arrange delivery. In calling you, not only will they will tell you what CART are all about but, if you then agree to having some free duck food, you will also agree to CART disclosing your details to third parties. I wonder how much this little scheme is costing?

probably nothing, self-financing like google and facebook.