Do I Need a Test Point in my Gas Line?

[BargeeSpud]

OK, build going well, & thoughts turning to installing the gas system in a couple of weeks time or so. I'm keeping it simple in that I'm only using gas for cooking, the run to the gas locker is about 15' & I'm fitting a manual changeover valve. I've seen on other threads the recommendation for an inline bubble tester & this appeals to me, so if I fit one, where's the best place to fit it & do I still have to fit a test point for the BSS?

 

Also,what do you think about having an additional isolation valve near the cooker? This is probably BS, but I've heard that if you're only running 1 appliance, you don't need an isolation valve at all, let alone 2. I'm going to fit an isolation valve in the cockpit anyway, so maybe this is purely academic.

 

What do you think & is there anything else I should consider.

 

Cheers.

[nicknorman]

I would definitely fit a gas test point. Even though a bubble tester might mean it is not specifically required (not sure) gas bods seem somewhat scathing about them. The bubble tester is for the owner's reassurance every now and again, the test point is for the BSS Man every 4 years.

[Martin Megson]

Hi,

 

According to the BSS guidance (extract below) you need either a test point or a bubble tester. However, personally for my own peace of mind I would fit test point to allow an independent test every 4 years.

 

 

7.12 Testing for LPG system tightness

7.12.1

Is there a LPG test point in the system, or a bubble tester in the cylinder locker or housing?



Check for the presence and location and accessibility of a means to determine the LPG system tightness.



All LPG systems must be fitted with one of the following means to determine gas-tightness:

· a readily accessible proprietary test point on an appliance; or,

· a readily accessible proprietary test point fitted in the

pipework; or,

· a bubble tester installed in a cylinder locker or cylinder housing.



[Leo No2]

I have a bubble tester that was always checked by my BSC examiner. Everything was fine until this year when a different person undertook by BSC examination. He said that the bubble tester needed to be in the gas locker to be used by him (I think that is in the boat safety regs - mine isn't in the gas locker but under the gunwale on the front deck where I can easily see it). I have shut off valves very close to the cooker/hob. This year the BSC examiner took the hob off and used the gas test point under the hob. It was all fine but I find it challenging when what one examiner says is fine another says isn't - so yes fit a gas test point.

[trackman]

I agree that it's definitely best to fit a test point.

A bubble tester may be worth having as well if you like the idea of having something you can readily check yourself.

In my experience BSS examiners prefer to use a test point to check the system even where the is a bubble tester. Those we have used have said they prefer not to rely on bubble testers whatever the regs say.

[Chewbacka]

If your boat is a live aboard then it is classed a residential boat (not sure if that is the exact name in the regs), but a Non-gas safe registered BSS inspector is not allowed to touch a test point on a residential boat, he can only use a bubble tester.

On the other hand a Gas safe registered guy may prefer a proper test point, and having one makes things a bit easier.

 

So I fitted both to my boat even though it is only a leisure boat - but hopefully one day that may change :-)

[James Owen]

Bubble testers, from memory, are fairly small bore so if you're looking to fit anything juicy it may pay to stick with a test point.

I've also got a nagging thought that they're only available with either 8 or 10mm compression fittings but this is just a vague memory from years ago.

I prefer test points but for quick and easy checking by the customer/owner a bubble tester is unbeatable.

And no, if the cooker or hob/oven arrangement is the only LPG appliance in the system you don't need anything more than the valve on top of the bottle(s).

[alan_fincher]

I would definitely fit a gas test point. Even though a bubble tester might mean it is not specifically required (not sure) gas bods seem somewhat scathing about them. The bubble tester is for the owner's reassurance every now and again, the test point is for the BSS Man every 4 years.

 

Except that the BSS man may well just use the bubble tester. Some offer a discount if one is fitted, as it takes away the time and effort for them to do a full manometer test if one is not fitted.

[nicknorman]

Except that the BSS man may well just use the bubble tester. Some offer a discount if one is fitted, as it takes away the time and effort for them to do a full manometer test if one is not fitted.

Obviously it depends on the BSS man! The one we just had was somewhat scathing about bubble testers.

[alan_fincher]

I've also got a nagging thought that they're only available with either 8 or 10mm compression fittings but this is just a vague memory from years ago.

 

You can change the tails on them to something else, (e.g. imperial rather than metric sizing), and (unless it is changed since I bought one), SoCal (Southampton Calor) will supply ones where this has been done.

 

By the way, even if you don't fit a dedicated test point, quite a few appliances likr hobs or Morcos incorporate one anyway, which, (provided accessible) I think would met BSS needs.

Obviously it depends on the BSS man! The one we just had was somewhat scathing about bubble testers.

 

But they couldn't refuse to do it that way, if that was all you had fitted, could they?

[MtB]

The Bubble tester MUST be in the gas locker according to the BSS book.

 

Stupid rule in my opinion as in the dark and forgotten gas locker it is unlikely to be used. Even if you think of it, you can't see it well enough in the gloom to check if there is a one microscopic bubble passing every 30 seconds without a torch and a mirror, and a third hand to hold the button down whilst you have your head upside down through the gas locker hatch. You'll need your reading glasses ON too!

 

Put it somewhere accessible and in an area with good light and it is likely to get used regularly.

 

Are you reading this Rob@BSSOffice?!

 

 

MtB

 

 

(Edit to exaggerate my point )

Edited January 3, 2015 by Mike the Boilerman

[nicknorman]

But they couldn't refuse to do it that way, if that was all you had fitted, could they?

No, but I think most of us also want to be totally sure we don't have a slight gas leak, and the bubble tester doesn't seem as good as identifying that as the test point/manometer. Although ISTR the rules for bubble testing (ie how long to press the button) changed a while ago? Also how do you check the main shut-off leak-by with a bubble tester? Is the tester always downstream of the main shutoff device?

[Bobbybass]

This year the BSC examiner took the hob off and used the gas test point under the hob. It was all fine but I find it challenging when what one examiner says is fine another says isn't - so yes fit a gas test point.

I was told...by Steve Hand...at Barton Turns..that a 'test point' on the cooker (as I had)...was fine...BUT that under the 'regs'...he wasn't allowed to remove the cooker to access the test point. I removed the cooker from its housing..and he was then happy to use that and test the system.

 

That is what..I was 'told'

[James Owen]

You can change the tails on them to something else, (e.g. imperial rather than metric sizing), and (unless it is changed since I bought one), SoCal (Southampton Calor) will supply ones where this has been done.

 

 

Obviously Alan, but off the shelf from marine suppliers they come either 8 or 10mm. I felt this needed pointing out due to the propensity for those less informed to put 3/8" copper into the 10mm fitting.

As I've come across this more than a few times it seems a fairly easy, if not common, mistake to make.

[davidg]

Bubble testers, from memory, are fairly small bore so if you're looking to fit anything juicy it may pay to stick with a test point.

I've also got a nagging thought that they're only available with either 8 or 10mm compression fittings but this is just a vague memory from years ago.

I prefer test points but for quick and easy checking by the customer/owner a bubble tester is unbeatable.

And no, if the cooker or hob/oven arrangement is the only LPG appliance in the system you don't need anything more than the valve on top of the bottle(s).

Depends on whether the appliance connection is in solid copper or via a hose. If a hose it needs a valve.

[James Owen]

Depends on whether the appliance connection is in solid copper or via a hose. If a hose it needs a valve.

If it, the appliance, is the only one aboard then for the purposes of isolation the main valve will suffice.

 

Applicability at BSS examination check 7.11.1 makes it clear this is the case, sorry David.

[davidg]

If it, the appliance, is the only one aboard then for the purposes of isolation the main valve will suffice.

 

Applicability at BSS examination check 7.11.1 makes it clear this is the case, sorry David.

 

Another example where surveyors opinions may differ. I've come across some who insist on a valve if a hose is fitted, classing the appliance as a portable appliance and citing 7.10.1: All portable appliance connection points must be fitted with an isolation valve which is of course at variance with 7.11.1.

[MtB]

Do I Need a Test Point in my Gas Line?

 

 

Yes. It's daft not to have one fitted. They are not just used for leak testing, there are a number of other circumstances where one is used. Testing a suspect regulator is delivering the correct pressure would be one example. Another would be testing the gas supply pipes for blockage or restrictions (many years down the line, hopefully!)

 

There will be other uses too in the fullness of time. Hard to predict what they are but with no test point, a gas bod called in to fix a problem will feel like a dog with three legs.

 

MtB

[David Schweizer]

 

Except that the BSS man may well just use the bubble tester. Some offer a discount if one is fitted, as it takes away the time and effort for them to do a full manometer test if one is not fitted.

 

I know from past discussions on the matter, that you are an ardent supporter of bubble testers, and I suppose that having gone to a lot of trouble and expense to fit one, it might be understandable. However, as you know, having had one fail on our boat, and empty two cylinders of gas into the front locker, I Irefuse to have a bubble tester on our boat. A test point fitting costs a great deal less than a bubble tester and only took half an hour to fit.

 

Unless you have experience of a particularly lazy examiner, I cannot understand why you suggest that BSS examiners may offer a discount to use a bubble tester rather than a test point. It really doesn't take much more time, and manometers are not exactly expensive to buy. Every BSS examiner who has inspected our boat has been pleased to use the test point rather than contort himself upside down into the gas locker with a torch to try and read a bubble tester,

 

On final point to the OP, if you do decide to fit a test point, it should be fitted at the furthest end of the gas supply before the connection to the last appliance, If you are only having a gas cooker on the system, there may well be a test point fitted to the appliance, in which case you probably do not need to fit an independant one.

[alan_fincher]

We could go round that loop for ever David - I know you have taken this line many times before.

 

You would need to ask the examiners why they knock (say) £15 of their BSS charge fee, if a bubble tester is fitted, but my limited understanding is that a manometer test done really properly actually consumes quite a lot of time. As I understand it, often a manometer test isn't really done properly.

 

Apart from that, although it doesn't obviously affect you or I, because of our use of our boats, it does appear to be the case that if a boat is someone's primary residence, that a BSS inspector should not open up a test point, unless he is himself GasSafe registered to work on LPG on boats. For residential boat owners this might highly limit their choice of available inspectors if the rules are to be tightly adhered to, (although I imagine we all, think it quite likely that non GasSafe registered people do manometer tests on residential boats, on occasions!).

 

As you know the BSS Office strongly encourage and endorse the fitting of bubble testers, but equally unless they ever make it mandatory, you have the right to ignore their recommendation.

[David Schweizer]

We could go round that loop for ever David - I know you have taken this line many times before.

 

You would need to ask the examiners why they knock (say) £15 of their BSS charge fee, if a bubble tester is fitted, but my limited understanding is that a manometer test done really properly actually consumes quite a lot of time. As I understand it, often a manometer test isn't really done properly.

 

Apart from that, although it doesn't obviously affect you or I, because of our use of our boats, it does appear to be the case that if a boat is someone's primary residence, that a BSS inspector should not open up a test point, unless he is himself GasSafe registered to work on LPG on boats. For residential boat owners this might highly limit their choice of available inspectors if the rules are to be tightly adhered to, (although I imagine we all, think it quite likely that non GasSafe registered people do manometer tests on residential boats, on occasions!).

 

As you know the BSS Office strongly encourage and endorse the fitting of bubble testers, but equally unless they ever make it mandatory, you have the right to ignore their recommendation.

 

I am sure that MtB would be able to confirm how easy or difficult it is to conduct a manometer test, but I have never found it a problem, Yes you need to know how to do it correctly, which involves setting up the test, and then returning twice after five and then ten minutes to take a second and third reading, it also requires you to make note whether there has been any significant variation in ambient tempersture which might affect the reading slightly, but none of that is rocket science and anyone who calls themselves an engineer should find it falls easily within their capabilities.

[James Owen]

 

Another example where surveyors opinions may differ. I've come across some who insist on a valve if a hose is fitted, classing the appliance as a portable appliance and citing 7.10.1: All portable appliance connection points must be fitted with an isolation valve which is of course at variance with 7.11.1.

I would struggle to either agree with or find the logic behind considering a hob unit which is screwed down to the work surface as a 'portable appliance'.

[blackrose]

Following my last BSS test several months ago, the inspector reduced the fee because I had a bubble tester and no test point.

 

I suppose having both is ideal, but then again, if you already have one test method, installing another could be seen as introducing unnecessary joints.

 

If I was to choose between the two then I'd choose a bubble tester because then I can easily test the system anytime I want. I don't have a manometer (or whatever they're called)，and one test every 4 years isn't often enough in my opinion. Do some people without bubble testers really only test their system every 4 years? That would worry me...

Edited January 4, 2015 by blackrose

[Sea Dog]

Well, that's cleared that up then

[David Schweizer]

How often do people test the gas soundness in their home? I suspect never, and yet no one seems to fret about that. Anyway, the gas suppliers put a very strong perfume in gas, so that you can smell even the smallest leak.