Do I Need a Test Point in my Gas Line?

[bizzard]

How often do people test the gas soundness in their home? I suspect never, and yet no one seems to fret about that. Anyway, the gas suppliers put a very strong perfume in gas, so that you can smell even the smallest leak.

You won't if you've got a bad cold or sinus trouble.

[Keeping Up]

If you have an auto changeover valve, as we do, you can check the system very quickly and easily. About once a month I just turn the gas central-heating boiler off (if it is alight) and turn off the working gas bottle before I go to bed. The next morning before making my first cup of coffee I just look in the gas locker and see if the indicator has turned red, indicating that the small amount of gas in the pigtail has lost pressure, or if it has stayed white indicating no loss of pressure. It's not good enough for a BSS of course but it will detect small leaks which are still well within the threshold of leakage that is permitted.

[MtB]

I would struggle to either agree with or find the logic behind considering a hob unit which is screwed down to the work surface as a 'portable appliance'.

 

And a fixed appliance such as a hob in a boat subject to the GSIUR should never be connected using a flexible hose, as any fule no...

 

(Happens constantly though, and nobody cares.)

 

 

MtB

How often do people test the gas soundness in their home? I suspect never, and yet no one seems to fret about that. Anyway, the gas suppliers put a very strong perfume in gas, so that you can smell even the smallest leak.

 

The methane in one's pipes at home (in a house) is lighter than air so leaking gas wafts away and does nothing more than hasten global warming, unlike the LPG leaking in a boat, which accumulates in the bilge and can kill you to death, if ignited.

 

 

MtB

[alan_fincher]

How often do people test the gas soundness in their home? I suspect never, and yet no one seems to fret about that.

The methane in one's pipes at home (in a house) is lighter than air so leaking gas wafts away and does nothing more than hasten global warming, unlike the LPG leaking in a boat, which accumulates in the bilge and can kill you to death, if ignited.

Plus my house isn't subject to constant vibration when I'm using it.

 

(I've heard it is even possible to get hit quite firmly by a boat coming the other way!)

[MtB]

 

I am sure that MtB would be able to confirm how easy or difficult it is to conduct a manometer test, but I have never found it a problem

 

 

Takes about fifteen minutes to do correctly, once one has faffed about doing the let-by test on the cylinder valve(s) first (which I've never seen done by a BSS bod). During which time other things can be inspected and boxes enthusiastically ticked. But of course if a slight drop in pressure is noted in five minutes (NONE is allowed) then one feels obliged to do the test again, just to be sure. Now half an hour has slipped by.

 

A bubble tester is WAY less sensitive than a proper soundness test, so my last boat which failed my own soundness tests but also had a bubble tester, passed BSS with flying colours.

 

MtB

 

Plus my house isn't subject to constant vibration when I'm using it.

 

(I've heard it is even possible to get hit quite firmly by a boat coming the other way!)

 

Only when their sound signals indicating their intentions happen to have been inaudible, one would imagine!

 

 

MtB

[Keeping Up]

Once when sailing on the Norfolk Broads, heeling over at about 45 degrees in a good strong wind, we heard a 'crash' from inside the boat and on looking inside we saw the gas cooker swinging from its hose like a pendulum in the middle of the cabin. There was no problem with the gas, but it did mean that our steak pies got a little burned as they had slid off the shelves into the burners. I wonder if that counted as a"portable" appliance?

[MtB]

 

Apart from that, although it doesn't obviously affect you or I, because of our use of our boats, it does appear to be the case that if a boat is someone's primary residence, that a BSS inspector should not open up a test point, unless he is himself GasSafe registered to work on LPG on boats.

 

Just to knock the nail home. employing a random GSR bod is not good enough. Not even one who is LPG qualified.

 

LPG on boats is necessary. Ask to see the GSR identity card we are all required to carry when working. On the back it specifically states the categories of work the bod is entitled to carry out. Mine says "LPG on boats" or something similar.

 

MtB

Once when sailing on the Norfolk Broads, heeling over at about 45 degrees in a good strong wind, we heard a 'crash' from inside the boat and on looking inside we saw the gas cooker swinging from its hose like a pendulum in the middle of the cabin. There was no problem with the gas, but it did mean that our steak pies got a little burned as they had slid off the shelves into the burners. I wonder if that counted as a"portable" appliance?

 

Counts as an "Unsafe Appliance"!

 

The bod inspecting it for BSS was required to check the cooker was secured in position.

 

I think should you chose to sue him for the cost of the pies, you might win.

 

MtB

[Keeping Up]

Thanks for the advice Mike, but unfortunately I can't remember how much pies cost in 1973, nor can I find any reference to the requirements of the BSS in that year!

[MtB]

Ah.... BSS didn't exist in 1973!

 

Your anecdote shows why they felt the need to introduce it.

 

 

 

MtB

[bizzard]

That must have been one of the posher Broads sailing hire boats to have a cooker in the cabin. The ones I used to hire from Marthom boats were at the cheaper budget less salubrious end of hire boat fleets, of traditional all wooden build. Javelin and Vagabond spring to mind. Both types had their cooker under a seat outside in the well. The Vagabond was wonderfully and truly basic, no auxiliary engine just sails and a too short Quant pole. You actually got an electric light in the cabin though and a charged up battery, all thrown in at no extra cost.

[MtB]

You actually got an electric light in the cabin though and a charged up battery, all thrown in at no extra cost.

 

Out of interest, where is the alternator installed on a sailing hire boat?

 

 

MtB

[Keeping Up]

It was a "Leading Lady" from Herbert Woods at Potter Heigham. Here's a picture taken in a good wind.

 

 

More details here

 

The auxiliary engine was in the stern locker. It didn't have an alternator Mike, just a dynamo.

[blackrose]

How often do people test the gas soundness in their home? I suspect never, and yet no one seems to fret about that. Anyway, the gas suppliers put a very strong perfume in gas, so that you can smell even the smallest leak.

The difference of course being that unlike LPG, natural gas is not heavier than air and thus has a better chance of dispersing and escaping through doors, windows, gaps, etc. On a boat LPG definitely won't escape, it will just sink and collect in the bilges.

Edited January 4, 2015 by blackrose

[BargeeSpud]

Wow! Thanks everyone, there's too much to answer specific posts, so I'll just summarise my thoughts on reading them all.

 

The bubble tester seemed like a good idea, but I agree that having to place it in the gas locker rules it out for me for the reasons posted, plus I'm a lazy bar steward at the best of times! I'll fit the test point instead. Besides, I have my own version of a bubble tester & I'm certain most of you will have used one yourselves, namely a small spray bottle filled with a detergent solution.

 

My cooker being a freestanding one, your comments confirm my original thought of fitting an isolation valve anyway in the cockpit & as for one at the cooker as well as a test point, that won't happen now, it'll just be the test point as I want the number of joints kept to an absolute minimum especially when you consider that each valve & the test point each have 3 potential points of leakage.

 

 

Thanks again for you help & advice.

Edited January 4, 2015 by BargeeSpud

[blackrose]

Wow! Thanks everyone, there's too much to answer specific posts, so I'll just summarise my thoughts on reading them all.

 

The bubble tester seemed like a good idea, but I agree that having to place it in the gas locker rules it out for me for the reasons posted, plus I'm a lazy bar steward at the best of times! I'll fit the test point instead. Besides, I have my own version of a bubble tester & I'm certain most of you will have used one yourselves, namely a small spray bottle filled with a detergent solution.

 

Don't use a detergent solution. They contain salt which will corrode the joint. Use a proper non-corrosive gas leak detector spray. Available at Screwfix and elsewhere.

Edited January 4, 2015 by blackrose

[bizzard]

 

Out of interest, where is the alternator installed on a sailing hire boat?

 

 

MtB

Non on the Vagabond. Once you'd flattened the battery you got the candles out, although they did have a battery exchange swap system with other Hoseasons boat yards where you could swap it for a charged up one.

[BargeeSpud]

Don't use a detergent solution. They contain salt which will corrode the joint. Use a proper non-corrosive gas leak detector spray.

 

OK, thanks for the tip, although I've never had any corrosion problems with a mild fairy liquid solution in the past.

[ditchcrawler]

We always used Snoop leak detecting liquid.

[alan_fincher]

Ah.... BSS didn't exist in 1973!

 

Your anecdote shows why they felt the need to introduce it.

 

 

 

MtB

 

And to be fair, 40 years ago, nobody thought it particularly bad practice if the cylinder and regulator were in the cabin with you, attached to an appliance with orange hose and Jubilee clips.

 

I actually support initiatives that put some regulation around this kind of thing, though if I'm honest I can't recall large numbers of deaths back then from practices that are now totally outlawed.

[Murflynn]

I have my own version of a bubble tester & I'm certain most of you will have used one yourselves, namely a small spray bottle filled with a detergent solution.

 

 

of course you are only checking where you might EXPECT to find leaks, not the rest of the system, some of which will be inaccessible. So it's a good test, but not all encompassing.

[blackrose]

 

OK, thanks for the tip, although I've never had any corrosion problems with a mild fairy liquid solution in the past.

At least none that you can see... if a copper olive is corroding inside a joint how would you?

[BargeeSpud]

At least none that you can see... if a copper olive is corroding inside a joint how would you?

 

To clarify, my experience with this method, hit & miss I know & only really useful for determining the actual source of an existing leak, is with cast iron/steel air line where olives of any kind are almost non existent.

 

Just for clarification on your point of corroding copper olives, please explain why corrosion is so important for a metal that, as far as I'm aware, corrodes for a laugh anyway? Forgive me, but in the wider scheme of things I really don't see why thats so important, unless its being exposed to a detergent solution on a daily basis of course. That I can see being an issue.

Edited January 5, 2015 by BargeeSpud

[blackrose]

 

Just for clarification on your point of corroding copper olives, please explain why corrosion is so important for a metal that, as far as I'm aware, corrodes for a laugh anyway? Forgive me, but in the wider scheme of things I really don't see why thats so important, unless its being exposed to a detergent solution on a daily basis of course. That I can see being an issue.

 

If you're saying that copper is susceptible to corrosion anyway, then I'd have thought it was pretty obvious why exposing the metal to a corrosive agent and accelerating that corrosion is of significance?

 

The copper olive seals the joint and any corrosive washing up liquid entering a joint through capillary action may then stay there for some time. The olive can then corrode over time and the joint may leak.

 

I was just offering some advice. But if you don't believe me, then have a look at some other sources. BOC talks about not using incompatible solutions or solutions containing fatty acids. By all means carry on doing whatever you want to do, but I really don't understand why anyone would continue to use an incompatible solution when proper non-corrosive gas leak detector solutions can be bought for as little as £3.

 

http://www.boconline.co.uk/en/sheq/gas-safety/apparatus-safety/leak-testing/leak-testing.html

 

https://the-gas-safety.co/Leak-Detection-Spray---2.aspx

Edited January 5, 2015 by blackrose

[cuthound]

Is copper subject to corrosion in a saltwater solution?

 

They used to clad the bottoms of sea going wooden ships with copper to make the wood last longer. Hence the term "copper bottomed guarantee".

 

Seems a wasteful practice if the copper would corrode away.

 

ETA they also clad the roofs of old buildings with it, for example St Paul's Cathedral in London. The copper goes green quickly, but even in the heavily polluted (especially before the Clean Air act) of London seems not to corrode through.

Edited January 6, 2015 by cuthound

[BargeeSpud]

 

If you're saying that copper is susceptible to corrosion anyway, then I'd have thought it was pretty obvious why exposing the metal to a corrosive agent and accelerating that corrosion is of significance?

 

The copper olive seals the joint and any corrosive washing up liquid entering a joint through capillary action may then stay there for some time. The olive can then corrode over time and the joint may leak.

 

I was just offering some advice. But if you don't believe me, then have a look at some other sources. BOC talks about not using incompatible solutions or solutions containing fatty acids. By all means carry on doing whatever you want to do, but I really don't understand why anyone would continue to use an incompatible solution when proper non-corrosive gas leak detector solutions can be bought for as little as £3.

 

http://www.boconline.co.uk/en/sheq/gas-safety/apparatus-safety/leak-testing/leak-testing.html

 

https://the-gas-safety.co/Leak-Detection-Spray---2.aspx

 

I'm really not looking to start an argument over this, all I wanted was some sort of clarification of your corroding copper olives statement, that's all. I guess that I'm going to have to leave it in that I don't wholly buy your argument & we'll just have to agree to disagree up to a point, so I'm leaving it at that.

 

Thanks for your input, I really do appreciate everything people take the trouble to post, whether I agree or not, so cheers.

 

Is copper subject to corrosion in a saltwater solution?

 

They used to clad the bottoms of sea going wooden ships with copper to make the wood last longer. Hence the term "copper bottomed guarantee".

 

Seems a wasteful practice if the copper would corrode away.

 

ETA they also clad the roofs of old buildings with it, for example St Paul's Cathedral in London. The copper goes green quickly, but even in the heavily polluted (especially before the Clean Air act) of London seems not to corrode through.

 

Sort of what I was thinking & LPG contains water which also causes corrosion over time, so gawd knows what impact a water/detergent solution will actually have on copper olives. I certainly don't know, I don't think anyone really does, & I don't think it would have that much impact anyway, as I've already said. I reckon you'll be replacing a gas joint at some stage long before corrosion becomes a problem IMHO.

Edited January 6, 2015 by BargeeSpud