Alternatives to 'cigar lighter' sockets for 12V

[ditchcrawler]

I plug low voltage stuff into the mains all the time, as I'm sure, does everybody.

I think most boaters would consider 12 volts as low voltage compared to the mains and not the correct technical name for it.

[Guest]

Not a BSC item, you can have open 12 volt terminals on the wall if you want to. The danger of using 5 or 15 amp mains sockets is if someone takes a low voltage bit of kit from the boat and plugs it into the mains, unlikely but possible

There is a way around that by using a different pin connection configuration for the 12V dc, but most people don't seem to bother.

Edited December 14, 2014 by Guest

[Detling]

Clipsal type used by caravans comes in Architrave size as well as standard socket size. It is polarized so you can't insert the plug the wrong way round. You can wire it up wrong though (It cost a few quid to learn that). Towsure seem to be the best supply but most caravan shops will have them and even occasionally midland chandlers.

[mayalld]

Not a BSC item, you can have open 12 volt terminals on the wall if you want to. The danger of using 5 or 15 amp mains sockets is if someone takes a low voltage bit of kit from the boat and plugs it into the mains, unlikely but possible

 

Which is why I would suggest that you use the 5A round pin sockets, but wire them -ve to the earth pin and +ve to the neutral pin, with the live pin unused.

 

This means that even if somebody takes a 12v appliance from the boat and plugs into the 5A lighting socket at the pub, nobody is going to get hurt.

[Guest]

 

Which is why I would suggest that you use the 5A round pin sockets, but wire them -ve to the earth pin and +ve to the neutral pin, with the live pin unused.

 

This means that even if somebody takes a 12v appliance from the boat and plugs into the 5A lighting socket at the pub, nobody is going to get hurt.

That is how I saw a couple done.

[David Mack]

 

Which is why I would suggest that you use the 5A round pin sockets, but wire them -ve to the earth pin and +ve to the neutral pin, with the live pin unused.

 

This means that even if somebody takes a 12v appliance from the boat and plugs into the 5A lighting socket at the pub, nobody is going to get hurt.

 

And likewise if anyone tries to plug the table lamp from the pub in on your boat, nothing untoward will happen.

[Tom Richmond]

I work in theatre (plays and stuff, rather than open heart surgery), and we use 15A plugs to differentiate dimmer circuits from ring mains. 13A plugs and sockets carry a full 240V, and 15A plugs and sockets are used for dimmed circuits. In addition to this, the 15A plug is unfused, which is useful when you put a dozen of them on a piece of truss and send it 12m up in the air, as you really don't want to have to climb up there with a screwdriver to fault find...

 

Basically I think standardisation is important. While all of the above suggestions will work: 5A plugs are for lamp circuits which are switched elsewhere, IEC plugs are for mains input on devices, 15A plugs are for dimmer circuits in theatres, XLR and speakon plugs are made for sound and cigar plugs, DIN plugs and clipsal plugs are all for 12v DC usage. We all like to bodge things occasionally, and that's all well and good, but there is kit designed for purpose, which I think should be recommended to the OP.

[John V]

I work in theatre (plays and stuff, rather than open heart surgery), and we use 15A plugs to differentiate dimmer circuits from ring mains. 13A plugs and sockets carry a full 240V, and 15A plugs and sockets are used for dimmed circuits. In addition to this, the 15A plug is unfused, which is useful when you put a dozen of them on a piece of truss and send it 12m up in the air, as you really don't want to have to climb up there with a screwdriver to fault find...

 

Basically I think standardisation is important. While all of the above suggestions will work: 5A plugs are for lamp circuits which are switched elsewhere, IEC plugs are for mains input on devices, 15A plugs are for dimmer circuits in theatres, XLR and speakon plugs are made for sound and cigar plugs, DIN plugs and clipsal plugs are all for 12v DC usage. We all like to bodge things occasionally, and that's all well and good, but there is kit designed for purpose, which I think should be recommended to the OP.

 

agree with most of that Tom but remember on sound systems XLR's also provide phantom power to mic's power to mixers from seperate psu's and are used in several bits of equipment in the mobility field for power or control and in fact there is an XLR plug designed for 240v as well

[Guest]

I work in theatre (plays and stuff, rather than open heart surgery), and we use 15A plugs to differentiate dimmer circuits from ring mains. 13A plugs and sockets carry a full 240V, and 15A plugs and sockets are used for dimmed circuits. In addition to this, the 15A plug is unfused, which is useful when you put a dozen of them on a piece of truss and send it 12m up in the air, as you really don't want to have to climb up there with a screwdriver to fault find...

 

Basically I think standardisation is important. While all of the above suggestions will work: 5A plugs are for lamp circuits which are switched elsewhere, IEC plugs are for mains input on devices, 15A plugs are for dimmer circuits in theatres, XLR and speakon plugs are made for sound and cigar plugs, DIN plugs and clipsal plugs are all for 12v DC usage. We all like to bodge things occasionally, and that's all well and good, but there is kit designed for purpose, which I think should be recommended to the OP.

I take your point, though think "bodge" is too strong a word; I feel "adapt" is more accurate.. It is more important in your environment than on a canal boat. I tried to use items on my boat that could be picked up at any electrical wholesalers rather than specialist outlets. I also used 240V style MCB's on the 12V system for the same reason (Hager, safe at 12V dc)

Edited December 15, 2014 by Guest

[ditchcrawler]

I work in theatre (plays and stuff, rather than open heart surgery), and we use 15A plugs to differentiate dimmer circuits from ring mains. 13A plugs and sockets carry a full 240V, and 15A plugs and sockets are used for dimmed circuits. In addition to this, the 15A plug is unfused, which is useful when you put a dozen of them on a piece of truss and send it 12m up in the air, as you really don't want to have to climb up there with a screwdriver to fault find...

 

Basically I think standardisation is important. While all of the above suggestions will work: 5A plugs are for lamp circuits which are switched elsewhere, IEC plugs are for mains input on devices, 15A plugs are for dimmer circuits in theatres, XLR and speakon plugs are made for sound and cigar plugs, DIN plugs and clipsal plugs are all for 12v DC usage. We all like to bodge things occasionally, and that's all well and good, but there is kit designed for purpose, which I think should be recommended to the OP.

I don't think you will find that 15A plugs are "Standard" for dimmers. They may be in your industry but it is not a standard. The same could be said that 5Amp is the "standard" for 12 volts on inland boats.

[Guest]

I don't think you will find that 15A plugs are "Standard" for dimmers. They may be in your industry but it is not a standard. The same could be said that 5Amp is the "standard" for 12 volts on inland boats.

Not much experience in theaters but have removed probably thousands of 15A (and 2A, 5A) sockets from older buildings when upgrading the wiring in my electrician days. They were once the standard generally but not any more. I do see 5A used in pubs still for lamps sometimes.

[MyLady]

Thanks one and all for the info - I know much more now than when I started this thread!

Edited December 16, 2014 by MyLady

[Kwacker]

I've replaced all my single sockets for these

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/12V-Dual-Car-Cigarette-Lighter-Socket-Splitter-USB-2-1A-1A-Charger-Power-Adapter-/171350207074?hash=item27e544aa62

[ukdiggerboy]

I've replaced all my single sockets for these

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/12V-Dual-Car-Cigarette-Lighter-Socket-Splitter-USB-2-1A-1A-Charger-Power-Adapter-/171350207074?hash=item27e544aa62

 

just ordered two of the same for mine was about to put up a link

[magnetman]

Thats a nice looking bit of kit

[Tom Richmond]

Do those USB plugs have a constant drain on your batteries? The same as leaving the inverter switched on? If so I would not want such a thing, should be quite easy to modify and add a switch though...

[Loafer]

Do those USB plugs have a constant drain on your batteries? The same as leaving the inverter switched on? If so I would not want such a thing, should be quite easy to modify and add a switch though...

 

Nah. Can't tell on my batt management panel if there's nothing connected to them. Probably a milliamp to run it's little light.

[Sierra2]

Great thread, very useful. Iv'e been stuck on what to use for power for the 12v Tv in the wheel house. I only have a 25mm blank plate. Up until now I was just planning on having the flex come out through a grommeted hole. Anyone know if the XLR audio connectors would fit?. it's a 25mm deep drywall box but could change to deeper if needed.

 

Chaz

 

(Quality of items is a lot better than the pic shows!)

 

[DHutch]

My boat came wired with these Clipsal type sockets:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Caravan-Motorhome-12v-Slimline-Clipsal-Outlet-Socket-Desert-Sand-P120DS-/171453241727?pt=UK_Campervan_Caravan_Accessories&hash=item27eb68d97f

Never used these, but if they work and are good quality, they seem the closest to 'the right thing to use' we have.

 

Which is why I would suggest that you use the 5A round pin sockets, but wire them -ve to the earth pin and +ve to the neutral pin, with the live pin unused.

I have often thought this was a good idea, although in practice our boat uses IEC plugs/sockets for 24vdc +ve to live -ve to earth and with only about three things running off them, and no mains IEC's on board, yet to have a mishap. We then have a single 12vdc lighter socket for a 12v to USB in the cupboard with the radio and the stepdown voltage reg.

 

I work in theatre (plays and stuff, rather than open heart surgery), and we use 15A plugs to differentiate dimmer circuits from ring mains. 13A plugs and sockets carry a full 240V, and 15A plugs and sockets are used for dimmed circuits.

When I worked in the students union it was all 16amp Ceeform for hard and dimmed. There was limited dimmed rigging up at any one time, and that which there was we did in grey cables rather than black, or taped the ends.

 

agree with most of that Tom but remember on sound systems XLR's also provide phantom power to mic's power to mixers from seperate psu's and are used in several bits of equipment in the mobility field for power or control and in fact there is an XLR plug designed for 240v as well

You also get some mini parcans and the like running off 24vdc XLR

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XLR_connector#Three_pin_-_power

 

 

Daniel

[Eeyore]

How about page 77 onwards in this catalouge:

 

http://www05.abb.com/global/scot/scot209.nsf/veritydisplay/516814a99e2749d7c1257d6400473ffe/$file/2CMC700014C0008.pdf

 

The grey 2 pin DC are specified for 20 - 25 volts and also 40 - 50 volts.

They seem to be the closest thing I can find to being "made for the job" , I think we could be forgiven for "stretching" the specification to include nominally 12 volt systems (which are pretty close to 15 volts these days)

Edited December 18, 2014 by Eeyore