Thoroughly Depressing Open Meeting

[alan_fincher]

I went to the open meeting with Richard parry in Milton Keynes last night, and found it a thoroughly depressing experience.

 

However the reasons for this had very little to do with Richard Parry and other CRT personnel, and almost entirely related to the majority of those in the audience raising questions. Except most were not actually questions, in the true sense, they were largely just rants.

 

It was like having an an audience 80% to 90% comprised of IWA grandees (!), all baying for the blood of anybody who dares to keep an even half way scruffy boat without a home mooring.

 

Bizarrely many talked about "wanting to enjoy they boating", but sounded like they were incapable of enjoying anything on the canals, because the experience had been so poisoned for them by others.

 

Trying to be objective, everything I have tried to do to improve how BW and CRT manage the waterways, I have tried to do from a position of inclusiveness, and building as much common ground as possible. Whatever our reasons for boat ownership, and whatever our style of boating, we all have to share a common resource, and a whole bunch of us are not about to disappear simply because we are unpalatable to a different bunch of waterways users.

 

I just hope that those actually mouthing on last night are not typical, even though they largely dominated the meeting. My hopes were slightly raised by several people around me muttering "rubbish" under their breath to some of the more outlandish claims. I guess you might say why did more not speak out against the ranters? The thing was it was billed as a way to come and ask questions about the trust - "What are you going to do about these terrible people?" is indeed a question, just not a very good one, if it is the only thing anybody can keep coming up with.

(My rant ends!).

Edited October 8, 2014 by Grace & Favour
Removed an individual's name

[nicknorman]

So how did RP etc react?

[alan_fincher]

RP's view is that everybody has a view, and that those views should be heard.

I told him I very much hoped that not all these meetings had produced so much vitriol, but he wouldn't be drawn on how this one compared to others he has run.

 

If I thought the attitudes expressed were vaguely representative of all boat owners, I think I would pack up and leave the waterways, but I suspect that actually many of these people own boats, and seldom move them. Their principle objection seems to be they pay to keep a boat somewhere, whilst others do not, but they didn't actually seem to know very much about the waterways that they boat on, latching on instead to the (wrong!) anecdotal "evidence" of others.

 

(Sorry I did say "rant ends"!!!)

[MtB]

So what IS he going to do about all those terrible people?

 

Or did he fail to say?

 

 

MtB

The thing was it was billed as a way to come and ask questions about the trust - "What are you going to do about these terrible people?" is indeed a question, just not a very good one, if it is the only thing anybody can keep coming up with.

(My rant ends!).

[nicknorman]

Well RP is fairly intelligent and will get the big picture. I suspect a similar meeting in eg Birmingham would have a different set of rants.

 

Anyway, I note you mention that those complaining are only doing so from anecdotal evidence since their boats never leave the marina. Look hard - can you see the irony of that!

[nicknorman]

I will risk mentioning that we ventured south of Buckby for the first time in 5 years last month, though only as far as Gayton. I did notice many more moored liveaboard boats moored in that section at pretty much every bridge, than 5 years ago. Is it a problem? Well not a major one but I suppose it does slightly spoil the rural feel. It is a bit like going for a drive in the country only to find yourself in a succession of ribbon villages. Not real country.

 

We also passed a small cruiser at 11am with 3 bodies in sleeping bags strewn across the rather narrow towpath, surrounded by a couple of dogs and numerous empty plastic bottles of cider and other debris. Folk walking the towpath would have to step over these sleeping drunkards which would not be a nice experience as they looked rougher than rough. So there are folk on the waterways who really do need to be "cleared up" although of course they are a very small minority.

[jenlyn]

I've been to several of his open meetings. Last evening was not representative of the others.

One guy I approached afterwards stank of booze, which I suppose explained his own rant.

Another produced pictures of what he said were overstayers, and was totally embarrassed when the owner of the two boats he had taken pictures of, turned out to have only been there a few days after travelling from the north.

 

Strange meeting, and it gave me an insight into Richard Parry that will in future serve to remind me that not all books can be judged by their glossy covers.

[bassplayer]

RP's view is that everybody has a view, and that those views should be heard.

I told him I very much hoped that not all these meetings had produced so much vitriol, but he wouldn't be drawn on how this one compared to others he has run.

 

If I thought the attitudes expressed were vaguely representative of all boat owners, I think I would pack up and leave the waterways, but I suspect that actually many of these people own boats, and seldom move them. Their principle objection seems to be they pay to keep a boat somewhere, whilst others do not, but they didn't actually seem to know very much about the waterways that they boat on, latching on instead to the (wrong!) anecdotal "evidence" of others.

 

(Sorry I did say "rant ends"!!!)

Alan, do you know whether everyone there was by invitation only? There seemed to be very little voice from the CC'er contingent although I have to admit I didn't say anything either, I also was too depressed! Maybe if the meeting started on time and didn't finish 45 minutes early I might have plucked up the energy.

 

I liked the comments from one guy (Mick I think) about trying to keep the spirit alive. It really does seem there are a few cronies trying to kill off the spirit and trying to turn the canal system into a 'playground for the rich'. Which funnily enough is exactly the same words used in the NBTA literature.

 

I was disappointed that Mr Parry didn't offer to engage the clearly very upset women who walked out. IMO ignore people like this at your peril....she was right, indeed there was a lot of patting on backs...

[Guest]

Alan, do you know whether everyone there was by invitation only? There seemed to be very little voice from the CC'er contingent although I have to admit I didn't say anything either, I also was too depressed! Maybe if the meeting started on time and didn't finish 45 minutes early I might have plucked up the energy.

I liked the comments from one guy (Mick I think) about trying to keep the spirit alive. It really does seem there are a few cronies trying to kill off the spirit and trying to turn the canal system into a 'playground for the rich'. Which funnily enough is exactly the same words used in the NBTA literature.

I was disappointed that Mr Parry didn't offer to engage the clearly very upset women who walked out. IMO ignore people like this at your peril....she was right, indeed there was a lot of patting on backs...

I wonder why people didn't feel able to speak up though? In defence of CCers.

 

Genuine question for those that were there and didn't. Surely it was an opportunity to demonstrate to RP that not all saw it the way the CCer bashers do.

[Bod]

Can I ask the gist of the ladies comments please.

 

Bod

[Timleech]

Trouble is, there are some people who get pleasure/satisfaction from standing up and spouting at meetings like this, but most of the rest of us don't find it so easy. Those who do like doing it tend to be the ones with the more extreme strongly held views. It must also be quite easy to make sure there are others of like mind there to support you.

 

The one I went to, early in the year, did at least have people (one of each) from both sides of the fence wanting their views heard, they didn't occupy the whole meeting but a lot of time was taken up with them.

 

Tim

[alan_fincher]

Alan, do you know whether everyone there was by invitation only?

 

Well anybody could go, I think, but you needed to book tickets via that online licketing system.

 

How you would actually know about the meeting might depend on person to person. I did receive an email about it, but what selected me from a list of all possible attendees, I don't know.

 

It was probably in the "Boaters Update", but I seldom read that, as I don't feel it ever updates me on very much in a useful way.

[bassplayer]

I wonder why people didn't feel able to speak up though? In defence of CCers.

Genuine question for those that were there and didn't. Surely it was an opportunity to demonstrate to RP that not all saw it the way the CCer bashers do.

I'm not certain but I'm pretty sure it was Jenlyn who put his hand up a lot but only got to ask one question. Let's just say Parry was very selective...I'll try to to be more assertive next time but not all of us are as confident in meetings as we are on an Internet forum...

[b0atman]

May be the problem is that all these would be commodores, are not rich enough to own a second home in a Cotswold village where they could then complain about the church bells and the dirty farming people.

[nicknorman]

We got an email for a Birmingham one. I think they are sent to folk who moor in the area, or are spotted by patrol officers on a regular basis in the area.

[Mike Tee]

Not everybody is comfortable about speaking in public, even if they feel strongly about their opinion. I'd bet there are a lot of people on here who often express an opinion who would not be prepared to do so in an open meeting. I'll admit to being one of them - I know my own problems, and a room with more than four people in it is one of them. But thats for me to deal with / put up with.

I have read AF's comments over the years and I am grateful that he, in the most part, expresses how I feel about the waterways, and he does it in public and at closed meetings. Please continue to do so.

I notice there have been quite a few responses while I composed this, so to be clear, its in response to TDH's comment on why people don't speak up.

[mark99]

A lot of the more extreme views could literally be silenced or snuffed out at birth by....... drum roll.

 

Correct, proper and effective enforcement.

 

Which is what most of the more knowledgeable/experienced posters in here have been "banging on about" and for one I wholeheartedly agree.

[Higgs]

I wonder why people didn't feel able to speak up though? In defence of CCers.

 

Genuine question for those that were there and didn't. Surely it was an opportunity to demonstrate to RP that not all saw it the way the CCer bashers do.

 

Hysterical empty vessels.

Edited October 7, 2014 by Higgs

[bassplayer]

Can I ask the gist of the ladies comments please.

 

Bod

She felt some of the comments made were insulting and that it was all one big back slapping exercise...I could see her point...

 

It's a shame we're not all good at public speaking. I know at better organised meetings people have the opportunity to write down questions. They always say...beware of the quiet ones...

[alan_fincher]

I wonder why people didn't feel able to speak up though? In defence of CCers.

 

Genuine question for those that were there and didn't. Surely it was an opportunity to demonstrate to RP that not all saw it the way the CCer bashers do.

 

Well perhaps I had the wrong end of the stick, but I thought it was meant to be more about us asking questions, and CRT replying, than having the audience just voice their opinions.

 

I'm slightly confused by the comment about a woman walking out, because although a woman protested strongly about what was being voiced, it was a man that also objected, and actually left - I thought the woman stayed. The sniggers of satisfaction from much of the baying audience when the chap did go, probably did little to make those who felt uncomfortable speak up.

 

As Tim rightly says, not everybody feels happy to speak out in large public meetings, and the hostility already exhibited would have deterred all but the bolder, I feel.

 

I personally didn't chip in in protest, (not that I'm not bold enough!), because I hoped that as they steered it forward to new "questions", we might get out of the groove it had got stuck in. My only question ultimately was about future intent with mooring auctions.

 

As has been said, they did close the "open session" earlier than the original billed timing for the end of meeting, but to be fair, there was then an opportunity to talk to CRT staff face to face, and I guess they had factored this in their overall timings.

[RLWP]

I suspect this kind of thing is inevitable. On the one hand you have people who have 'got on' in the world, bought a new boat and join clubs. On the other hand, the canal is a great place to go and be on your own, moored up far away from the noise and strife of modern life and attracts people who want to live that way

 

Of those two groups of people, one will be more drawn to going to meetings than the other

 

I do wonder if this forum suits the other group better

 

Richard

[bassplayer]

A lot of the more extreme views could literally be silenced or snuffed out at birth by....... drum roll.

 

Correct, proper and effective enforcement.

 

Which is what most of the more knowledgeable/experienced posters in here have been "banging on about" and for one I wholeheartedly agree.

...depends what you believe "Correct, proper and effective enforcement" is though. It's subjective and some think it's over the top.

[Guest]

Trouble is, there are some people who get pleasure/satisfaction from standing up and spouting at meetings like this, but most of the rest of us don't find it so easy. Those who do like doing it tend to be the ones with the more extreme strongly held views. It must also be quite easy to make sure there are others of like mind there to support you.

 

The one I went to, early in the year, did at least have people (one of each) from both sides of the fence wanting their views heard, they didn't occupy the whole meeting but a lot of time was taken up with them.

 

Tim

My stepmother used to say "Empty vessels make the most noise."

[cotswoldsman]

She felt some of the comments made were insulting and that it was all one big back slapping exercise...I could see her point...

 

It's a shame we're not all good at public speaking. I know at better organised meetings people have the opportunity to write down questions. They always say...beware of the quiet ones...

I have said it before and so I might as well say it again. The format of these meetings is all wrong. Before the meeting time should be allocated by an agenda for various subjects and then they can be discussed in an open manner. People going to the meeting can suggest beforehand subjects to be discussed and the time can be allocated and people can prepare.

[bassplayer]

I'm slightly confused by the comment about a woman walking out..

Maybe my glasses failed me but I'm pretty sure it was a woman...not that it's relevant unless you're doubting I was there of course...