Graham Davis Posted October 2, 2014 Report Share Posted October 2, 2014 They portray it as a huge problem, but in reality I think they blow it up out of all proportion as one way to divert attention from their miserable failure as a Navigation Authority. So there is no problem anywhere, then? Change the record, Tony! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John V Posted October 2, 2014 Report Share Posted October 2, 2014 My boat is slow. 2mph flat out. MtB (and I have to ride the bike back to where I started from to collect the van, too!) fair do's.......I'm no speed merchant but can double that without wash Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Dunkley Posted October 2, 2014 Report Share Posted October 2, 2014 I think it is reasonable for the OP to expect an Enforcement Officer to know the official policy on 'how far is enough' They haven't got an official policy . . . they make up rules and pseudo legal requirements as they go along and as they need them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabcat Posted October 2, 2014 Report Share Posted October 2, 2014 (edited) So is the OP the enemy of boaters who are perfectly complaint with CRT rules either as continuous cruisers progressing all over the system or as boaters with home moorings? Is she getting in everyone's way with her cruising pattern causing untold problems for the rest of us or is she just someone living her life the best she can? As I see it if she's causing no problems with this cruising pattern CRT should leave her alone to live her life and do something bloody useful. Edited October 2, 2014 by Sabcat 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Dunkley Posted October 2, 2014 Report Share Posted October 2, 2014 So there is no problem anywhere, then? Change the record, Tony! Your words, not mine . . . but stick at it . . . I'm sure that one day you'll manage to respond to a Post without misquoting or distorting what's been said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan(nb Albert) Posted October 2, 2014 Report Share Posted October 2, 2014 They portray it as a huge problem, but in reality I think they blow it up out of all proportion as one way to divert attention from their miserable failure as a Navigation Authority. £85m is not enough Still no answer........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Dunkley Posted October 2, 2014 Report Share Posted October 2, 2014 So is the OP the enemy of boaters who are perfectly complaint with CRT rules either as continuous cruisers progressing all over the system or as boaters with home moorings? Is she getting in everyone's way with her cruising pattern causing untold problems for the rest of us or is she just someone living her life the best she can? As I see it if she's causing no problems with this cruising pattern CRT should leave her alone to live her life and do something bloody useful. No, she certainly isn't . . . and I sincerely hope that she doesn't become one of their targets selected to be made an example of in order to frighten others into complying with their "make it up as you go along " rulebook. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Richmond Posted October 2, 2014 Report Share Posted October 2, 2014 Don't you think C&RT should be doing that anyway . . . it's called getting priorities in order. My point was that I don't believe C&RT should be using their resources hounding boaters who are on the verge of compliance with the regulations. It is clearly stated that it is the boater's responsibility to demonstrate their cruising pattern. The OP stated that she found it unfair (I think she used the word harassment) that she had to demonstrate her cruising pattern. I am suggesting that in doing so she would in fact divert C&RT's resources into things more useful and beneficial to us all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabcat Posted October 2, 2014 Report Share Posted October 2, 2014 My point was that I don't believe C&RT should be using their resources hounding boaters who are on the verge of compliance with the regulations. It is clearly stated that it is the boater's responsibility to demonstrate their cruising pattern. The OP stated that she found it unfair (I think she used the word harassment) that she had to demonstrate her cruising pattern. I am suggesting that in doing so she would in fact divert C&RT's resources into things more useful and beneficial to us all. Or CRT could just wind their necks in and stop looking for problems that don't exist and deploy the resources themselves. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Dunkley Posted October 2, 2014 Report Share Posted October 2, 2014 My point was that I don't believe C&RT should be using their resources hounding boaters who are on the verge of compliance with the regulations. It is clearly stated that it is the boater's responsibility to demonstrate their cruising pattern. The OP stated that she found it unfair (I think she used the word harassment) that she had to demonstrate her cruising pattern. I am suggesting that in doing so she would in fact divert C&RT's resources into things more useful and beneficial to us all. It shouldn't be necessary for a boater to do that . . . it's Parry's job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homer2911 Posted October 2, 2014 Report Share Posted October 2, 2014 Nail, head, hit. The OP is staying in one particular area due to work commitments and seeking to move the minimum to stay within the law. Davies to a tee and not bona fide by that standard. Agreed. There are rules. Do your best to subvert them, and you can expect to be challenged. Don't like it? Get off the waterways, which are designed and administered for boats and boaters to move around the country, not for providing a basis for cheaper housing in the area in which you work. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ange Posted October 2, 2014 Report Share Posted October 2, 2014 (edited) No.... "The whole concept of a CCer having 'an area' contradicts your concept of CCing." which is why this debate will never be settled on here, even when we get to the one thousandth new thread started on the topic. I generally no longer get involved, but would remind you yet again, that whatever you want the rules to be, the actual requirement in law is only to satisfy "bona fide for navigation" - nothing more, nothing less. The issue, as ever remains as interpreting what that means, but it is hard to see OP is not satisfying it, I think - or at least based on their description of their cruising pattern. I have to go to bed now otherwise I won't get up for work tomorrow, so I'll have to stop at this point in the thread and say ... WOT HE SAID! We've cc'd for 5 years now, and have come nowhere near covering the amount of the system that Cotswoldman has but done a fair bit. In that time we've sometimes ambled in an area we particularly like, stretching the cc rules to their limits. I'm quite proud of the fact that last year we spent one month on the Middlewich Branch of the Shroppie - all total legitimate stays, not because we were freeloaders taking the piss but because it's a lovely place to be and we wanted to make the most of it. In the winter I have to work and most of the time we've decided that we have enough of a cruising range to satisfy the rules, not because of some wonton need to freeload but because we genuinely love living on the cut. We're in a marina now because I needed to work the summer this year and we decided the downside of being in a marina was outweighed by the convenience - it really is very hard work ccing when you're working. Those that think it's the easy option are so wrong. This is our home, our way of life. I object to anyone setting down in stone how many miles we should do each year to qualify as ccers - we choose not to have a home mooring because we don't want one and don't need one - in fact it would be stupid to pay for one because we don't want to stay in one area for more than a few months. If one year we need to shuttle back and forth through 20 miles of canal I certainly won't be feeling guilty - I'm sure they'll be plenty of places along the way to make that legitimate. This view that some have of to be a "genuine" ccer you have to be retired, have no kids and visit the system far and wide bears no relation to the actual legislation and guidelines. Edited October 2, 2014 by Ange 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bassplayer Posted October 2, 2014 Report Share Posted October 2, 2014 My point was that I don't believe C&RT should be using their resources hounding boaters who are on the verge of compliance with the regulations. It is clearly stated that it is the boater's responsibility to demonstrate their cruising pattern. The OP stated that she found it unfair (I think she used the word harassment) that she had to demonstrate her cruising pattern. I am suggesting that in doing so she would in fact divert C&RT's resources into things more useful and beneficial to us all. I still think CRT are using this forum to generate self policing...and it's working....fear works even when CRT lose in court to eloquent and well read individuals (especially so).....I very much doubt they will pick on the increasing number of small live aboard communities I see building up because that will draw in the general publics imagination....The escapist Plan B lifestyle is all that keeps some going in a increasingly crap Plan A lifestyle ....take that away from everyone and watch what happens.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homer2911 Posted October 2, 2014 Report Share Posted October 2, 2014 (edited) I have to go to bed now otherwise I won't get up for work tomorrow, so I'll have to stop at this point in the thread and say ... WOT HE SAID! We've cc'd for 5 years now, and have come nowhere near covering the amount of the system that Cotswoldman has but done a fair bit. In that time we've sometimes ambled in an area we particularly like, stretching the cc rules to their limits. I'm quite proud of the fact that last year we spent one month on the Middlewich Branch of the Shroppie - all total legitimate stays, not because we were freeloaders taking the piss but because it's a lovely place to be and we wanted to make the most of it. In the winter I have to work and most of the time we've decided that we have enough of a cruising range to satisfy the rules, not because of some wonton need to freeload but because we genuinely love living on the cut. We're in a marina now because I needed to work the summer this year and we decided the downside of being in a marina was outweighed by the convenience - it really is very hard work ccing when you're working. Those that think it's the easy option are so wrong. This is our home, our way of life. I object to anyone setting down in stone how many miles we should do each year to qualify as ccers - we choose not to have a home mooring because we don't want one and don't need one - in fact it would be stupid to pay for one because we don't want to stay in one area for more than a few months. If one year we need to shuttle back and forth through 20 miles of canal I certainly won't be feeling guilty - I'm sure they'll be plenty of places along the way to make that legitimate. Would you pay more to maintain this freedom? Would you favour the equalisation of CaRT charges between all boaters? Edited October 2, 2014 by homer2911 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Richmond Posted October 2, 2014 Report Share Posted October 2, 2014 Or CRT could just wind their necks in and stop looking for problems that don't exist and deploy the resources themselves. Absolutely true. Greenied. However I think the OP should stop complaining and take a few pictures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark99 Posted October 3, 2014 Report Share Posted October 3, 2014 (edited) Anyway getting back to ME. I am moving the appropriate distance, but 18 miles isn't a long distance and only being able to moor for 14 days per place its inevitable the warden will see me at the same places at least 3 times per yr, they really need to put a new system in place because this is harassment Have you read the cart downloadable guidance for cc-ing? If not, why not? If yes, why do: A - you think you are wronged? B - you think proving your risible 18 mile radius by taking a few photos is worth winging about? Seems to me you are lucky to get such a concession whilst the rest of us pay for moorings. Edited October 3, 2014 by mark99 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naughty Cal Posted October 3, 2014 Report Share Posted October 3, 2014 I agree. I'm very close to giving up my £3k a year home mooring as I cruise FAR more this just on the Oxford! MtB I think I might join you. Why pay £1.5k a year when shuffling just 18 miles is deemed acceptable by CRT? We do more than 18 miles some evenings after work! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cotswoldsman Posted October 3, 2014 Report Share Posted October 3, 2014 (edited) Would you pay more to maintain this freedom? Would you favour the equalisation of CaRT charges between all boaters? By equalisation I presume you mean CRT should stop charging by the foot so people with small boats pay the same as those with say 70ft boats because as far as i am aware otherwise the charges are equal per meter Edited October 3, 2014 by cotswoldsman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan_fincher Posted October 3, 2014 Report Share Posted October 3, 2014 We do more than 18 miles some evenings after work! yeah, but you get 'done' for moving too fast, rather than not enough! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark99 Posted October 3, 2014 Report Share Posted October 3, 2014 I think I might join you. Why pay £1.5k a year when shuffling just 18 miles is deemed acceptable by CRT? We do more than 18 miles some evenings after work! Indeed, but instead of paying £3k per year you will have to take a few images for proof. Are you sure you can cope? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naughty Cal Posted October 3, 2014 Report Share Posted October 3, 2014 Indeed, but instead of paying £3k per year you will have to take a few images for proof. Are you sure you can cope? I think I might be able to manage that. yeah, but you get 'done' for moving too fast, rather than not enough! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alf Roberts Posted October 3, 2014 Report Share Posted October 3, 2014 I think I might join you. Why pay £1.5k a year when shuffling just 18 miles is deemed acceptable by CRT? We do more than 18 miles some evenings after work! Sensible comment - I wonder how long your boat would survive moored to the towpath in the middle of nowhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naughty Cal Posted October 3, 2014 Report Share Posted October 3, 2014 Sensible comment - I wonder how long your boat would survive moored to the towpath in the middle of nowhere. The same length of time as any other I should imagine......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kris88 Posted October 3, 2014 Report Share Posted October 3, 2014 Exactly the reason you pay for a mooring is the security of your boat while your away from it Regards kris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alf Roberts Posted October 3, 2014 Report Share Posted October 3, 2014 The same length of time as any other I should imagine......... In which case I recommend you go for it. What have you got to lose? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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